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Turkish Arms Sales to Pakistan are Booming as Broader Alliance Emerges

Yea clearly SHOULD and reality are unfortunately two totally different things.

And personally I’m not optimistic regarding Muslim majority countrys’ leaderships.

But hopefully countries can take a lesson from this blossoming Turkey Pakistan cooperation.

InshAllah.
Dude that would be a dream come true if Muslim countries had the sort of unity to have this kind of cooperation. Imagine a close defense partnership among all...economic integration and a NATO like commonality(in defense equipment and training). It would easily make all Muslim countries(kind of like what EU and NATO is) a powerhouse. It would be essentially immune to sanctions, threats by other major powers, and it would pretty much be able to do whatever it wants.
 
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Dude that would be a dream come true if Muslim countries had the sort of unity to have this kind of cooperation. Imagine a close defense partnership among all...economic integration and a NATO like commonality(in defense equipment and training). It would easily make all Muslim countries(kind of like what EU and NATO is) a powerhouse. It would be essentially immune to sanctions, threats by other major powers, and it would pretty much be able to do whatever it wants.

I wonder what the Quran says about this??

Or the Prophet’s last khutbah for that matter.

Not to turn this into a religious anything but:

It’s not like we are re inventing the wheel if you REALLY think about it.
 
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I wonder what the Quran says about this??

Or for that matter the Prophet’s last khutbah for that matter.

Not to turn this into a religious anything but:

It’s not like we are re inventing the wheel if you REALLY think about it.
Right...Muslims were strong and powerful for as long as they followed that path. Now they have abandoned it collectively speaking...and hence the downfall. In fact u see more Islamic principles followed by the Western powers than u do by Islamic countries. Unity being one of them.
 
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Right...Muslims were strong and powerful for as long as they followed that path. Now they have abandoned it collectively speaking...and hence the downfall. In fact u see more Islamic principles followed by the Western powers than u do by Islamic countries. Unity being one of them.

"In fact u see more Islamic principles followed by the Western powers than u do by Islamic countries."

That's crazy ironic but so true!
 
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But it won't be block 4 but may be JF18 or something because it will involve significant changes in the main airframe and aerodynamic surfaces and avionics


Not if its simply upgrading the base model.
Will they draw a whole new model from scratch? I don't think because the JF-17 baseline structure is potent enough.
 
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Not if its simply upgrading the base model.
Will they draw a whole new model from scratch? I don't think because the JF-17 baseline structure is potent enough.

It will be made from the scratch..
 
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It is a good news for Pakistan and best step by Pakistani armed forces. we should collaborate in 5th generation fighter.
 
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Published June 23rd, 2019 - 11:56 GMT
Wikimedia%20Commons.jpg

The Turkish T129 Advanced Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance helicopter /Wikimedia




By Sabena Siddiqui

Going back over centuries to when Turkish-origin Mughal emperors ruled the entire Indian subcontinent, Pakistan shares historical, cultural and religious roots with Turkey. Even Pakistan’s official national language Urdu has its linguistic roots in the Turkish language and it is a precious friendship. One of the best examples of the Pak-Turk emotional bond is that quite a few landmarks in Pakistani cities are named after Turkey’s leader Kemal Ataturk, while a central avenue in Ankara is named ‘Cinnah Cadesi’ after Pakistan’s founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah.


After Pakistan’s Prime Minister Imran Khan visit to Ankara in early 2019, bilateral ties with Turkey have been further enhanced on military and strategic levels. Being traditional allies, Turkey and Pakistan have a special rapport but their recent consolidation of defense interests is un-precedented and it signifies a convergence of national interests of both the nations.


Turkey and Pakistan have a special rapport but their recent consolidation of defense interests is un-precedented and it signifies a convergence of national interests of both the nations.

Previously, a Pak-Turk Military Consultative Group (MSG) had been established in 1988 while the first high-level military dialogue was established in 2003. Now under this same mechanism nearly 60 agreements for defense co-operation have been inked and the forum has been upgraded to a High-Level Strategic Co-operation Council.

Several recent developments may have helped to consolidate the Pak-Turk dimension;

First, the regional geopolitical scenario is getting worse and Turkey faces new risks on its borders due to the ongoing Syrian civil war and Arab-world frictions with Iran and Qatar. Likewise, Pakistan faces a terror threat from across its border with Afghanistan.

Second, U.S. relations with both Turkey and Pakistan have been extremely erratic over the past year. While Istanbul does not share the same stance as Washington over the situation in Syria, Pak-U.S. ties have been unpredictable due to the never-ending civil war and instability in Afghanistan. With the Istanbul Tripartite Summit between Turkey-Pakistan-Afghanistan, Ankara will be playing an important role in resolving the Afghanistan conundrum soon.

Based on these developments, Pak-Turk ties have become further enmeshed and defense is top priority. This can be further gauged from the fact that three military attaches from each of the forces have been posted in the Pakistan embassy at Ankara. Upgrading defense relations became essential when Pakistan faced constraints on the upkeep of F-16s it was provided by the U.S.

Filling the vacuum left by Washington, Istanbul came to the rescue and helped upgrade a batch of 41 F16 fighter jets for the Pakistan Air Force, manufacturing engines as well as spare parts for the aircraft. And after a plethora of significant defense deals in 2018, Turkey has become Pakistan’s second biggest arms supplier after China. And after a plethora of significant defense deals in 2018, Turkey has become Pakistan’s second biggest arms supplier after China.

after a plethora of significant defense deals in 2018, Turkey has become Pakistan’s second biggest arms supplier after China

Two of the largest defense deals between Islamabad and Ankara have been the procurement of four MILGEM Ada Corvettes for the Pakistan Navy and the sale of 30 Turkish T129 Advanced Attack and Tactical Reconnaissance (ATAK) helicopters to Pakistan. According to the then National Defense Minister Nurettin Canikli, the sale of the four ships was ‘the largest single export in the history of the Turkish defense industry’, it was a multi-billion deal and two ships each would be built in Istanbul and Karachi respectively.

Even the ATAK helicopters deal is worth $ 1.5 billion. Notably, ATAK helicopters are indigenously manufactured by the Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) under license from the Italian-British AgustaWestland and are prestigious assets for the Turkish Army. In 2017, Turkey had purchased 52 MFI-17 Super Mushshak training planes from Pakistan and it remains the second most prominent participant (after China) in Pakistan’s International Defense Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS).

Having a growing defense industry, Pakistan wants to make headway in the global market and it has been supplying small arms to Turkey in compliance with NATO specifications. According to former air force pilot Kaiser Tufail, closer defense ties “could well take the shape of a ‘Block-4’ JF-17 developed by Turkey and Pakistan” to be “considered for joint design and co-production”, after which “a stealth fighter would then be a logical next step.”

Collaborating in the production of unmanned aerial vehicles these days, both countries could also focus on manufacturing a fifth-generation fighter jet, especially as Pakistan has already co-produced the JF-17 Thunder with China.

Having a growing defense industry, Pakistan wants to make headway in the global market and it has been supplying small arms to Turkey in compliance with NATO specifications.

Not limited to products and defense capabilities, Turkey and Pakistan are also training their troops to meet any unforeseen challenge together. Considering the fast-changing and erratic security dynamics in the Middle East and South Asia in recent years, military preparedness is essential.

In this connection, six -day exercises between Turkish, Pakistani and Uzbek armies were held in the last week of April in eastern Uzbekistan. Named the Partnership Shield 2019, these drills simulated terrorist infiltrations in a country and the next phase will take place in Turkey.

Having had annual military and air force training exchange programs since 2000, Turkey has also been providing training to Pakistan Air Force pilots and helped in the upkeep of Pakistan's fleet of F-16 aircraft. Over the last decade, nearly 1500 Pakistani military officers have received training in Turkey

Addressing officers at the Risalpur air force base recently, Turkish Air Force Chief General Hasan Kucukakyuz resolved that “Turkey will always stand by Pakistan through thick and thin”, and this statement exemplifies the Turkey-Pakistan equation.

As a strategic partner, Islamabad can help Ankara bridge the divide between the East and West. Preferring ambiguous neutrality to taking sides, Ankara has maintained balance in its foreign policy and extending military ties with Pakistan increases its leverage in Asia even as the European Union (EU)is trying to assess a new direction.


As a strategic partner, Islamabad can help Ankara bridge the divide between the East and West. Preferring ambiguous neutrality to taking sides, Ankara has maintained balance in its foreign policy and extending military ties with Pakistan increases its leverage in Asia even as the European Union (EU)is trying to assess a new direction.

As demonstrated time and again, Ankara remains the most dependable ally for Islamabad, it was the only country which supported Pakistan when it was being put on the ‘grey list’ by the Financial Action Task Force (FATF) last year. Another instance of unflinching Turkish support is its backing Pakistan’s membership in the Nuclear Suppliers Group based on non-discriminatory criteria.

Along with strategic ties, economic engagement has also speeded up and a Strategic Economic Framework (SEF) and Free Trade Agreement are being mulled over. Once operational, the SEF could increase the trade volume five times over. Meanwhile, a direct Istanbul-Tehran-Islamabad TIR trade corridor was inaugurated last year in April. Linking up Iran, Central Asia, Turkey and Europe, the trade possibilities with this fast-track route are endless.


Sabena Siddiqui is a foreign affairs journalist and geopolitical analyst based out of Karachi.

Turkey does not manufacture the engines for F.16s.
 
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Where are our t129s waiting since forever for deliveries

T129 uses engine made by US company Honeywell and they have refused to grant EXPORT clearance for this sale. This deal is now as good as dead. Any replacement engine will warrant revaluation of platform which might bring Z10 or Mi 28 into picture.
 
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T129 uses engine made by US company Honeywell and they have refused to grant EXPORT clearance for this sale. This deal is now as good as dead. Any replacement engine will warrant revaluation of platform which might bring Z10 or Mi 28 into picture.
I think a few days ago news broke that turkey is close to securing license for engines. Are you sure ur statement above is accurate?
 
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I think China has other projects , which generate more revenue. Now JF17 is Pakistani project. China is not doing any marketing. Only it provide after sale service and parts guarantee to end users. JF17 now need future development to capture low cost third world stealth market.
That is not the point. Most of the design, upgrade and manufacturing still need to go thru China , same as the WS-13 engine. Including major wind tunnel testing ,radar upgrade. China has all the facilities for a aircraft project from scratch until mature. Even India having need Russian facilities to do high attitude wind testing.

China still hold the remaining 50% right of this project. If China don't agree, turkey has no way to take part in JF-17.

I think a few days ago news broke that turkey is close to securing license for engines. Are you sure ur statement above is accurate?
License engine is not 100% transfer all the know how to you. Western is not dumb to pass such critical knowledge all to another party even the money is right. Major critical component still needs to be imported overseas and assemble into it.
 
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That is not the point. Most of the design, upgrade and manufacturing still need to go thru China , same as the WS-13 engine. Including major wind tunnel testing ,radar upgrade. China has all the facilities for a aircraft project from scratch until mature. Even India having need Russian facilities to do high attitude wind testing.

China still hold the remaining 50% right of this project. If China don't agree, turkey has no way to take part in JF-17.


License engine is not 100% transfer all the know how to you. Western is not dumb to pass such critical knowledge all to another party even the money is right.
Mostly, Chengdu facility working with PAC. China is more focused on j31 etc . In other words sell more Lexus then Toyota corolla.
 
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I agree that, I think some of the feasibility studies conducted between China, Pakistan and Turkey, for about JF-17B4's opening to Turkish aerospace industry.

when till T-129 will be delivered to Pakistan?
@T-123456
 
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