Turkish Air Defence Programs

[madmusti]

I think it was the domestic laser being developed by Tubitak.

TUBITAK aha. mhm.

 

[Basel]

No. 15km and 25km against small targets.

Aspide 2000 / Spada 2000 : the missiles can intercept crossing and approaching targets to a range of 25km.

NASAMS (AIM 120): A horizontal range of up to 25 km. Other sources cite a range of 'over 15 km'.

But Pakistani SPADA system can hit aircraft 40+ km, how far Hisar-O can hit?? Also FM-90 can hit upto 15kms and have multiple guidance options while Hisar-A is big and not as mobile as FM90s are.

 

[cabatli_53]

But Pakistani SPADA system can hit aircraft 40+ km, how far Hisar-O can hit?? Also FM-90 can hit upto 15kms and have multiple guidance options while Hisar-A is big and not as mobile as FM90s are.

Mobility requirement of Hisar family is met by a different designed concept so Mobility issue is not a problem for Hisar-A.

 

[Basel]

Mobility requirement of Hisar family is met by a different designed concept so Mobility issue is not a problem for Hisar-A.

Hisar look less mobile then FM-90, please let me know what it offer better over FM-90??

 

[cabatli_53]

Hisar look less mobile then FM-90, please let me know what it offer better over FM-90??

You can see the similar range and radar coverage capabilities of air defence missiles which is designed in 1970's so The range issue can't be the correct response to describe a new generation missiles advantages over others. Some issues:

-TVC control: Seriously fast maneouvring capability against fast moving targets.
-High res. QWIP IR seeker: Advanced sensor supported by intelligent softwares to increase the hitting probabilities at terminal phase.
-New methods against hostile jamming environments
-Smokless fuel
-New generation motor enables to increase the speed/range

BTW, The range issue of Hisar-A/O is far more than the brochure figures !

 

[Basel]

You can see the similar range and radar coverage capabilities of air defence missiles which is designed in 1970's so The range issue can't be the correct response to describe a new generation missiles advantages over others. Some issues:

-TVC control: Seriously fast maneouvring capability against fast moving targets.
-High res. QWIP IR seeker: Advanced sensor supported by intelligent softwares to increase the hitting probabilities at terminal phase.
-New methods against hostile jamming environments
-Smokless fuel
-New generation motor enables to increase the speed/range

BTW, The range issue of Hisar-A/O is far more than the brochure figures !

Pakistani FM-90s are updated with current tech, that is why I asked for comparison.

 

[Bismarck]

BTW, The range issue of Hisar-A/O is far more than the brochure figures !

How much more?

 

[Casus Belli]

 

[Penguin]

BTW, The range issue of Hisar-A/O is far more than the brochure figures !

As is common practice. For example, MBDAs brochure lists (missile) range for Spada/Aspide 2000 as 'in excess of 25km'. ( http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagallery/files/spada_background-1367919814.pdf )
Deagel lists 28km ( Spada 2000 )

So, it definitely reaches 25km, which is what one would quote as effective range.

I don't see how F90 has better mobility than Hisar

Neither Chinese nor Turkish system has fire on the move capability.

 

[LegionnairE]

How much more?

I think he means that if the target escapes 25km range the missile should chase it for a while longer

so 25k ilometers isn't the missile range but "the kill range"

@Penguin
exactly what I thought

 

[GOKHAN TAYLAN]

in the beginning they skipped the hisar u animation

 

[-------]

As is common practice. For example, MBDAs brochure lists (missile) range for Spada/Aspide 2000 as 'in excess of 25km'. ( http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagallery/files/spada_background-1367919814.pdf )
Deagel lists 28km ( Spada 2000 )

So, it definitely reaches 25km, which is what one would quote as effective range.

I don't see how F90 has better mobility than Hisar

Neither Chinese nor Turkish system has fire on the move capability.

In this video, they explain a bit about the HISAR missile system.

HISAR-A/O both employ dual-pulse rockets, since alot of missiles attain their maxium range by gliding on to their target when propulsion system is out of fuel. It's very likely that that the first engine on HISAR family of missiles is just used as a 'Booster rocket', propelling missile out to 15-25km allowing the missile to glide intelligently to increase range, and then for terminal guidance missile fires up it's secondary rocket.
Cirit uses a high-performance short-burn rocket engine. Rocket engine burns up <4km in to it's flight, so for the remainder of it's flight out to 8km 'max range' it is done with only the momentum it gained in those few seconds under propulsion.

The Roketsan engineer also states that such a dual-pulsed rocket presents an enhanced capability to engage sophiscated targets, since the velocity of the missile is variable it would be difficult to predict velocity/time before impact, so aircrafts manuevering to counter HISAR would find it a little more difficult

 

[BordoEnes]

Turkey has reached “certain clarity” on the decision for a tender on its long-range missile defense system, Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM) head İsmail Demir has said.

“We are reviewing several parameters. We want to make a decision without a further extension,” he said, speaking at a Political, Economic and Social Research (SETA) panel on Oct. 26.

The negotiations over Turkey’s long-range missile defense system were held up by technical reasons, not because Turkey was stalling or had changed its mind, the chief procurement officer added.

A reversal in the procurement is out of question, but the talks have moved beyond initial price point or technical requirement discussions to the parameters of “what can we do with whom and with whom can Turkey have long-term cooperation,” Demir said.

“In this procurement process, Turkey wants several of its actors in the industry to get involved, get into partnerships when necessary and gain maximum technical competence while working with foreign actors,” he stated.

One of the offers included a financial model but two others did not, Demir said, noting obtaining financing was advantageous but there were no financing problems for this project, therefore a financing package was not “essential” at the moment.

The deputy chairman of Turkish defense producer Aselsan, Mustafa Kaval, for his part, said earlier bids had not included much technology transfer and were composed of production packages, adding the current negotiations were continuing with an “increasing technology transfer” focus.

Ankara selected a Chinese company in September 2013 to build its air defense architecture, but immediately came under heavy pressure from its Western allies for the decision. It also opened parallel negotiations this summer with a European contender in the multi-billion-dollar competition.

Following an assessment by Turkey’s top defense procurement agency, the Defense Industry Executive Committee selected China’s CPMIEC as the best bidder and Eurosam second.

A U.S. partnership of Raytheon and Lockheed Martin came third in the bidding.

NATO-deployed Patriots didn’t cover border: Aselsan official

Patriot missiles deployed by NATO were not capable of meeting Turkey’s air defense requirements in the region, Kaval said, noting they realized the “range of the missile were not covering the region when the systems arrived [in Turkey].”

“When those Patriot systems arrived, they indicated they didn’t cover the entire region and were not suitable to meet our ballistic missile defense requirements in that region,” Kaval said.

Recalling a Syrian missile which crossed Turkey’s border and hit the southern Reyhanlı district in March 2015, causing a debate over why Patriots had not intervened at the time, the Aselsan official said they “were not surprised.”

“Because the missile had nothing to do with the range [covered by where the] Patriot batteries were located anyway,” he stated.

The case showed that Turkey needs its own ballistic missile defense systems, he said.

The U.S. and German Patriot missiles were removed in October and only Spanish batteries are currently on duty as part of the NATO mission in the region.

Turkey reaches ‘certain clarity’ on national missile defense system - BUSINESS

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Aselsan taking a piss on Patriot xD

 

[cabatli_53]

Hisar-U is on the way !

Long range radars

 

[LegionnairE]

@Combat-Master
don't you think we're missing a step here? I think we should make something between stinger and hisar-a
like a rapier equivalent with about 10~ kilometers range? maybe 15?