Turkish Air Defence Programs

[Hexciter]

Ther are several thousands of m113, so ther is a lot of spare parts and vehicle.

ACV-30 is not a M113. It just borrows established design. It is more than twice heavy and large in size. The load it can't be put on a M113. Also parts are not interchangeable. Why it created? Army wanted fully amphibious tracked armoured vehicle put AD system on it.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Turkey is with South Korea the only Country which operate NIKES.
They will be phased out until 2020 with the MIM 23 Hawks.

Turkish Nike Sites and coverage red on Turkish side.

Greek coverage RED Patriot, Blue S-300, Orange Hawks

Another Picture of Greek air defence coverage

 

[Nutuk]

Turkey doesn't operate Nike missiles anymore, even your own picture from 2007 is from the etimesgut open air museum!

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Yes I know, the Picture is from Museum. It is written under the Picture I published.
Please be so Kind and tell us the final Phase out date.

I am not sure if all were phased out. I saw a active Nike battery 2013 in Datca Region and I was really surprised, cause you may also know the fact, that in Istanbul Alemdag the NIKE batteries where all located for the protection of Istanbul and Turkish Bosporus and the Dardanelles and under command of the 15.Missile Base Command.
Due to trmilitary Forum in 2014 they were still partly active.

It was always published that they would phased out step by step.
If all were phased out, it would be interesting to know when the last battery was phased out ?

What happened to them, were they scrapped or used for some Projects like below :

South Korea went an practical way, they derived some to SSM Hyundoo 2 and used them also for reverse Engineering and Technology gathering.

"Through reverse-engineering of U.S.-supplied missiles, South Korea produced two versions of a two-stage, solid-fuel SSM based on the U.S. Nike Hercules surface-to-air missile: NHK-1 (180 km/500 kg) and NHK-2 (260 km/450 kg). The missile is launched from the mobile launcher and fire-controlled by the battery control van. The Hyunmoo missile, which is propelled by two-stage solid rocket motor and features inertial guidance and control system, can reach the heart of its intended targets under any weather conditions without any commands from ground after fire. The missile is approximately 12m long, weighting 5 tons."

 

[Nutuk]

Officially they are not retired yet because there is no missile to replace them yet, but there is also none in active use anymore, they are either stalled in museum or mothballed and non active.

I think you are basing your info on a press conference given by retired general Pekin who said Turkey has only Nike Hercules (which is true, but they are non active)

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Thank you Nutuk. "Officialy" non active. It will stay a secret. I know for sure that some batteries were adopted to new radars from friends in Eskisehir. The problem was Thiokol Fuel,they told me ! I hope that our guys found a way to keep at least some effective operational. These "angry birds" with ceiling of 45 km and range of 140 km were not so bad. Imagine their steel balll fragmentation warheads with wide area effect. Fire and forget.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Scenario :

Seeding Turkish Skies with steel carbon fibers, like Chem Trails in acut air attack time; using 155 mm Projectiles can be used also as artillery based ECM jammers . That's all possible. A Swiss Company offers this Solutions. Name is Albrecht ;

but Swiss Government banned their Website and they are now developing only secret and closed to public

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Türkiye’nin İlk Milli Hava Savunma Füzesi HİSAR’dan Bir İlk Daha « Roketsan

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

PDF link attached

http://www.c4defence.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/HİSAR_eng.pdf

In IDEF 2015 showed new HISAR-O medium range air defense system | Defence blog

The HISAR is a family of surface to air missile system being developed by Aselsan and Roketsan since 2007. It consist of the HİSAR-A low attitude air defense system and HİSAR-O medium range air defense system.
First flight test of HISAR-O succesfully completed at 23.07.2014n
A Medium Altitude Air Defense Missile System, with infrared seeker head and vertical launch capability against airborne targets (Helicopters, Fighter Aircrafts, UAV’s, etc.) will be developed under the scope of the contract between ASELSAN and ROKETSAN.
MAAD Missile, under development by ROKETSAN, is planned to have the following capabilities: IIR Seeker Head Vertical Launch Pre-Launch and Post-Launch Lock-on Fire-and-forget/fire-observe and upgrade Capability RF Data Link with the Launcher.
The HISAR air defense system will enter the Turkish military inventory in 2017.

 

[ozi2000]

"""çift darbeli motora sahip Balistik Test Füzesi""" All advance well-known missiles has it. Good to have latest tech.

Pulsed rocket motor

A pulsed rocket motor is typically defined as a multiple Pulse (physics) solid-fuel rocket motor. This design overcomes the limitation of solid propellant motors that they cannot be easily shut down and reignited. The pulse rocket motor allows the motor to be burned in segments (or pulses) that burn until completion of that segment. The next segment (or pulse) can be ignited on command by either an onboard algorithm or in pre-planned phase. All of the segments are contained in a single rocket motor case as opposed to staged rocket motors.[1]

The pulsed rocket motor is made by pouring each segment of propellant separately. Between each segment is a barrier that prevents the other segments from burning until ignited. At ignition of a second pulse the burning of the propellant generally destroys the barrier.

The benefit of the pulse rocket motor is that by the command ignition of the subsequent pulses, near optimal energy management of the propellant burn can be accomplished. Each pulse can have different thrust level, burn time, and achieved specific impulse depending on the type of propellant used, its burn rate, its grain design, and the current nozzle throat diameter.[2]

The Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force has begun deployment of the PL-12 two-pulse air-to-air missile.[3]

Readings:
Dual-Pulse - Missile Propulsion Systems
http://enu.kz/repository/2010/AIAA-2010-6754.pdf
Patent US5600946 - Solid propellant dual pulse rocket motor loaded case and ignition system and ... - Google Patents
https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/666918
India & Israel’s Barak-8 SAM Development Project(s)
Thum! Kaun Aata Hai?: BDL Shows LRSAM with Dual Pulse Motor at DefExpo 2014
https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/210737

two pulse
dual pulse
dual thrust

 

[GOKHAN TAYLAN]

1. Milli Alçak İrtifa Hava Savunma Füzesi, Hisar-A’nın, otopilot kontrolüne sahip Kontrollü Test Füzesi-1 (KTF-1) ve Türkiye’de de bir ilk olan çift darbeli motora sahip Balistik Test Füzesi-2 (BTF-2) test atışları

2.Tamamlanan testlerde; HİSAR-A füzeleri, fırlatma platformundan birinci darbe motoru ile başarılı bir şekilde ayrılarak, ikinci darbe motorunu da havada ateşledikten sonra kendi bünyesindeki füze otopilotu kontrolünde, programlanan manevraları gerçekleştirerek uçtu.

Soruyu türkçe yazmak zorundayım Hisar A çift kademeli özelliğimi kazanmış ? kazanmışsa iyi güzel =) peki

çift darbeli motora sahip Balistik Test Füzesi-2 (BTF-2) test atışları ? ne demek bu hisar a dan farklı başka bir füzemi ?

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Is there a mistake in the Roketsan announcement, Hisar Missile seems to havea a two pulse engine in one chamber.
Am I wrong ?

It is for my opinion not moderate to publish such sensitive data. I can't follow and understand Roketsan

Dual Pulse Missile Propulsion System

​

LFK-NG

​

LFK-NG, Mission Scenarios

​

PSD-Demonstrator with HFK Airframe
LFK-NG is a ground based air defence missile. It is a multiplatform / multi-mission missile system having the capability to provide

• Camp / 360° asset protection
• Convoy protection
• Self-defence protection of helicopter and vessels
• Protection against all modern air-threats, in particular rockets and artillery
• A basic “Crewpad” configuration: enables fast deployment, early entry operations, with autonomous control or having the capacity to be linked to higher echelon command post control

The key element of the LFK-NG is its dual pulse propulsion system, which was developed by Bayern-Chemie, the programme for which included 2 successful test flights in 2005 and 2006.
Compared to single pulse propulsion systems of the same dimensions, the dual pulse propulsion system provides the capability of high agility to the missile system especially in the endgame scenarios and enlarges the no escape zone of the target.
The key characteristic which the dual pulse motor design enables is the capability to manage different thrust impulses according to mission need. The pulse management is achieved through the use of dual propellant charges separated by a frangible bulkhead, where the charges can be ignited separately.
Performance Characteristics include:

• No signature during coast-phase
• Active motor impulse control on mission demand
• Increased kinematic performance in endgame
• Avoidance of high peak velocities
• Increased range especially against highly manoeuvering targets

Technology:

• 2 separate propellant grains for two pulses in one motor case
• Pulse separation by passive frangible bulkhead
• Dual independent ignition systems

Technology Development – PSD (Pulse Separation Device):

The next stage in the evolution of dual-stage propulsion systems at Bayern Chemie was the development of a soft pulse separation system, termed the Pulse Separation Device – PSD. This technology was utilised on the HFK II motor, which employed a conical filament wound case structure. The design of the PSD was cleverly integrated into such a filament wound case structure and successfully demonstrated in two successful flight tests carried out in October 2009 at the test range of the German armed forces WTD 91.
Key features of the soft PSD design:

• Results in only minimal loss of propellant grain mass compared to a mono pulse grain.
• Allows the construction of dual pulse motors with filament wound case structures without the need to introduce heavy and costly split lines.

Benefits:

• The soft pulse separation device opens new fields of applications for dual pulse motors, for example with filament wound case structures and introduces the opportunity for the dynamic capability enhancement of existing systems

The dual pulse propulsion technology provides a cost-effective method to significantly increase missile interception capability at longer range and thus increasing the competiveness of MBDA’s missile systems. It is a mature and flight-proven technology, ready for immediate use.

http://enu.kz/repository/2010/AIAA-2010-6756.pdf

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

@Sinan Yes they obviously want to say ignited outside of the launcher Please compare the Illustration of German LFK-NG. Similarities ?

 

[-SINAN-]

@Sinan Yes they obviously want to say ignited outside of the launcher Please compare the Illustration of German LFK-NG. Similarities ?

Nope, that was my mistake bringing S-300 into discussion and i immediately erased my post.

S-300 is a cold launched missile where the missile is expelled by gas produced by a gas generator which is not part of the missile itself, and then the missile ignites.

When we look at the Roketsan's decleration.
"fırlatma platformundan birinci darbe motoru ile başarılı bir şekilde ayrılarak,"
So it ignited it's first engine and get separated from the launcher. Obviously hot launched.

"ikinci darbe motorunu da havada ateşledikten sonra kendi bünyesindeki füze otopilotu kontrolünde, programlanan manevraları gerçekleştirerek uçtu."
Than also ignites it's second engine and performs the flight.

Might be something like LFK-NG.

 

[Hexciter]

Nope, that was my mistake bringing S-300 into discussion and i immediately erased my post.

S-300 is a cold launched missile where the missile is expelled by gas produced by a gas generator which is not part of the missile itself, and then the missile ignites.

When we look at the Roketsan's decleration.
"fırlatma platformundan birinci darbe motoru ile başarılı bir şekilde ayrılarak,"
So it ignited it's first engine and get separated from the launcher. Obviously hot launched.

"ikinci darbe motorunu da havada ateşledikten sonra kendi bünyesindeki füze otopilotu kontrolünde, programlanan manevraları gerçekleştirerek uçtu."
Than also ignites it's second engine and performs the flight.

Might be something like LFK-NG.

S-300 missile is expelled from canister via a small amount of exposive ignition and this type of launch is called "cold-launch". What you explained is used by British CAMM missile and named as "soft-launch".