Turkish Air Defence Programs

[MMM-E]

The 9M96E2 is in may respects technologically ahead of the Aster 30, even though it is an older system. For example the Aster weighs 450-510 kg and has a range of 100-120 km. The export version of the 9M96E2 reaches 120 km but is significantly lighter at 420 kg. The domestic Russian version likely has better range.

The question is , Russia gives the 9M96E2 missile technology to Turkey ? NO

but 3 companies Turkish Aselsan, Roketsan and Eurosam (a joint venture company between MBDA Italy and Thales France) commenced the start of a business partnership to develop the Long Range Regional Air and Missile Defence System which is more advanced system than the SAMP-T ( ASTER-30 )

Eurosam official website
https://www.eurosam.com/turkey-france-and-italy-sign-an-agreement-on-air-defense/

 

[UkroTurk]

Is really length( range) more important ? Does size matter?
What about function?

For instance, russian IR guided air-to-air missiles have longer range, because their seekers simplier so they have longer resistance to overheating, however they are vulnerable against flares.
Thats why Americans use IR seekers with imaging in their sidewinders but again sidewinders have shorter range than russians ones.
Having less range doesn't make sidewinders worse a2a missile or makes russians ones better.

By the way Hisar-O-A also uses IR seeker with imaging.

 

[Saithan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1256909308559798272

Last part mentions that Hisar has been showcased to Bangladesh upon request.

 

[bosanski vojnik]

Hisar O has a max range of 25km?

Kinda small imo

Turkey should work with Ukraine to produce an Improved Variant of Buk M1. They could easily joint develop a 50km max range system in a matter of a few years..

 

[Faith_of_the_Fallen]

The question is , Russia gives the 9M96E2 missile technology to Turkey ? NO

but 3 companies Turkish Aselsan, Roketsan and Eurosam (a joint venture company between MBDA Italy and Thales France) commenced the start of a business partnership to develop the Long Range Regional Air and Missile Defence System which is more advanced system than the SAMP-T ( ASTER-30 )

Eurosam official website
https://www.eurosam.com/turkey-france-and-italy-sign-an-agreement-on-air-defense/

I think this is nothing but a delay effort on the side of EU, in order to offset Turkey making necessary steps to acquire an air defense system on its own. In the case of any kind of political disagreements which they dont have any stakes at all (military operations of Turkey against PKK encrouchment), they just pull the plug as a reflex by suspending all ongoing cooperations instantly. I hope our state official officials do not fall for these insincere attempts. Europeans again and again show that they are not reliable as an ally, because they dont consider Turkey as one of their own. I am not even talking about their constant embargo pressure approach. While Turkey helps them against Covid19, they just respond with new embargos and sabotages against critical projects, not even respecting signed agreements. When it comes to defense industry, all chips are down for EU. That is why, this is nothing but an attempt by Turkey to create alternatives; however, everyone knows that this is a deadend. Nothing will come out of this.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

The question is , Russia gives the 9M96E2 missile technology to Turkey ? NO

but 3 companies Turkish Aselsan, Roketsan and Eurosam (a joint venture company between MBDA Italy and Thales France) commenced the start of a business partnership to develop the Long Range Regional Air and Missile Defence System which is more advanced system than the SAMP-T ( ASTER-30 )

Eurosam official website
https://www.eurosam.com/turkey-france-and-italy-sign-an-agreement-on-air-defense/

Except France in particular doesn't want to share any technology with Turkey so they're setting forth all kinds of obstacles to hamper Turkey's defense industry. In effect, the "cooperation" with the Eurosam group got stuck as early as the damn DEFINITION STUDY. So don't expect Turkey to gain anything from cooperation with these double-crossing eurotrash.

"France obstructs progress in the joint anti-air missiles of Eurosam following Turkey’s “Operation Peace Spring,” Turkish Defense Industries Directorate chair İsmail Demir said on Jan. 6."

https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/f...issile-system-due-to-political-reasons-150657

 

[Neptune]

Romania is important due to its geographical location but Turkey is even more important
Yet US treats Turkey differently...
Estonia which has recently joined NATO became the center of NATO cyber operations but Turkey which borders crazy middle eastern nations and literally protects fellow NATO countries thanks to the long range radar that detects ballistic missiles stationed in Malatya is neglected
Turkey has asked for patriots since 90s
When s400 was bought they finally softened a bit their stance
If they invest and make Estonia the center of cyber NATO country then they should do same with Turkey in the field of air defense

I dont love or hate Americans or Russians. I only want whats is best for our army's needs.

But all of a suddent a funny I thing I remembered is when Mr. Strategic Depth was either PM or the Minister of Foreign Affairs, after we accepted to house an American radar post for NATO missile defence systems, we argued that we would also need protection against ballistic threats; they offered us a three phase plan. It included US to permanently deploy Patriots, a THAAD battery and an AEGIS ship on Eastern Med.

This was the perfect opportunity for us to guarantee our air defence while we can calmly focus on developing our own sophisticated air defense systems.

There are many ups and downs in almost all of our defense industry projects with almost all of them turning into success stories but to be honest, but this T-LORADMIS thing (father of the tender which got us pitted S-400 against Aster and Patriot) is fuvcked up beyond all recognition, messed utterly with politics and changing requirements. As a result shitshow got even bigger.

 

[Ansu fati]

I dont love or hate Americans or Russians. I only want whats is best for our army's needs.

But all of a suddent a funny I thing I remembered is when Mr. Strategic Depth was either PM or the Minister of Foreign Affairs, after we accepted to house an American radar post for NATO missile defence systems, we argued that we would also need protection against ballistic threats; they offered us a three phase plan. It included US to permanently deploy Patriots, a THAAD battery and an AEGIS ship on Eastern Med.

This was the perfect opportunity for us to guarantee our air defence while we can calmly focus on developing our own sophisticated air defense systems.

There are many ups and downs in almost all of our defense industry projects with almost all of them turning into success stories but to be honest, but this T-LORADMIS thing (father of the tender which got us pitted S-400 against Aster and Patriot) is fuvcked up beyond all recognition, messed utterly with politics and changing requirements. As a result shitshow got even bigger.

Missed opportunity what I can say...
Despite everything what’s has happened I think Turkey should stick to western technology though S400 could be used for eastern mediterranean
Quickest way to solve S400/F35 issue is to put one battery in tripoli and one in TRNC with this Turkey has basically secured her rights in eastmed...
The next step should be buying patriots samp/t and getting those f-35 finally
I have feeling exactly this is going to happen in the next 2 years if Trump is re-elected
But if Joe Biden is elected then Turkey-US relations are gone for good

 

[what]

Placing it in Tripoli will be a waste of tax money, placing it on Cyprus will not solve the issue. Americans can still claim that F35 would be to close to the system.

 

[mehmeTcc]

(military operations of Turkey against PKK encrouchment),

This is the story they want to sell to their public. We are against the French and the EU in general in Libya, but the trouble for them is whom they have sided with is an illegitimate putschist general. So what do you think they are going to say, that they are supporting a coupist general who is also disgraced by both the UN and the US?

Just look at who wants to drill in Mediterranean, everything from Canadian sanctions to French and German arms embargos are connected to Libya and Eastern Mediterranean somehow. In fact, it is one of the biggest dilemmas Turkish foreign policy ever faced. If we are playing a zero-sum game against France and Russia, the only logical escape would be introducing Americans on your side. You can also play with Israelis, since they are the strongest local actor in the theater; hence why S-400 purchase was unnecessary to say at least. If we lose in Libya we lose our access to Mediterranean forever, this surpass anything we are facing with in Syria and Iraq right now.

 

[Ansu fati]

Placing it in Tripoli will be a waste of tax money, placing it on Cyprus will not solve the issue. Americans can still claim that F35 would be to close to the system.

Pro-turkish Tripoli is key for Turkey’s rights in East Mediterranean the only reason why we will never see S400 in Libya’s capital is due to internal political reasons....
Regarding F-35 you are maybe right or maybe not it all depends on americans
Last time they said F-35 can’t be in the same location with S400 they should explain actually what they think because israeli F-35 is already operating in the same airspace as S400 in addition to this russians have installed comprehensive multilayered air defense network in short russians can track much better F-35 than one or two s400 batterie in anatolia
Theoretically speaking placing S400 in northern cyprus covers only the maritime territory between Lebanon Israel Turkey and Syria whereas S400 in Ankara covers middle part of anatolia effectively destroying any chance of F-35 flying in Turkey’s airspace because americans are allegedly “concerned” about the 5th gen technology
As I said it we have to wait and see what actually americans really want but putting one battery in S400 is workable solution and would protect turkish interests

 

[what]

Why would you put a multi billion Dollar asset somewhere else, if not in the heart of the country, where we dont have any adequate air defence at all.

I'm fairly sure that the S400 will remain in storage forever. Erdogan is already trying to kiss American asses again, might even have to buy Patriots on top of keeping the S400 in storage , just to mend ties and thus humiliating the Turkish nation. Another project in limbo because of politics.

I hope it doesn't come to this, but don't see any other way forward.

 

[neosinan]

After reaching defense agreements with Turkey last November, the GNA quickly sought to shift the tide in the air campaign. The slowdown in fighting around January’s Berlin conference gave the two military partners a window to establish an air defense bubble around the capital, deploying multiple SAM systems in and around Mitiga Air Base. The combination of medium-range U.S.-made MIM-23 Hawk missile systems, Hisar short-range SAMs, and Korkut antiaircraft guns created a layered defense over critical infrastructure and reduced the threat to GNA drone ground stations and launch operations.

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/what-turned-the-battle-for-tripoli

It looks like US think tanks are pretty sure, Hisar is in use in Libya conflict.

 

[Ansu fati]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1258338724611534848

 

[SoftKill]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1258342356522283008