Turkish Air Defence Programs

[Melkor]

Very very interesting article that dispels many of the myths of the performance of the S400 system. Basically a lowlevel missile is enough to catch the S400 system off guard and take it out. PAF needs to get developed or procure something like the ADM-160 MALD is enough to take care of the S400 system.

Interesting indeed.

 

[Timur]

second largest NATO member probably the most important geopolitical NATO member as wel

they want to split us in peaces? if you leave your language, religion than that can be dicussed and you can get some value..

 

[Deliorman]

Instead of wasting a decade on deciding what a long range SAM to purchase Turkey should have spent it’s money and resources on developing it’s own systems. Instead of giving 2,5$ billion for some Russian scrap metal that Israelis are making fun of every week we could have used those money on our own R&D.

Even if Turkey didn’t get the S-400 Americans would have probably find enough other excuses not to give our F-35s though.

 

[Oublious]

Instead of wasting a decade on deciding what a long range SAM to purchase Turkey should have spent it’s money and resources on developing it’s own systems. Instead of giving 2,5$ billion for some Russian scrap metal that Israelis are making fun of every week we could have used those money on our own R&D.

Even if Turkey didn’t get the S-400 Americans would have probably find enough other excuses not to give our F-35s though.

I think most of the members who believing what this newspaper write are dumb, how many of you are reading defence article? I bet non of the members!

Every SAM system will never be able to see a low flying object from 30km distance, this can be a fighter or a cruise missile. Thats why you need multi layered air defence with AWACS and sensors.

 

[CAN_TR]

From a simulator "game" were you can simulate military engagements.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1223208649901867008

 

[UkroTurk]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1223208649901867008

Radar range for which altitudes? At 20.000meter to lock on AWACS or F16s?

What kind of moron would send fighters at 20k altitude onto enemy's territory?
This range is not effective .

I think most of the members who believing what this newspaper write are dumb, how many of you are reading defence article? I bet non of the members!

Every SAM system will never be able to see a low flying object from 30km distance, this can be a fighter or a cruise missile. Thats why you need multi layered air defence with AWACS and sensors.

That's why US dont make SAMs equal to S400. They know very well thatlogic is useless. You can't engage to any ballistic missiles with s400 either cruise missiles at 400km range. Against ballistic missiles US have THAAD and AEGIS, against cruise missiles and aircraft they have patriot and ciws ,ram combination. Patriot has optimal range / altitude covering ratio.


Guys russians dont care of being bombed despite Americans. Russian defense strategy is " having been nuked to send nuke". If cruise missiles hit russian territory, russian submarines and strategic bombers would hit the hostile country. They dont have SAM systems such as THAAD , AEGIS.

 

[CAN_TR]

Radar range for which altitudes? At 30.000feet to lock on AWACS or F16s?

This is what S-400's own radar can detect for different target altitudes, this means if we don't integrate the S-400 in national wide airdefense & radar systems it's full potential can't be used.

AWACS, early warning radars and even OTH radars are needed.

 

[UkroTurk]

This is what S-400's own radar can detect for different target altitudes, this means if we don't integrate the S-400 in national wide airdefense & radar systems it's full potential can't be used.

AWACS, early warning radars and even OTH radars are needed.

So if s400 cant engage in lower altitude why you will support s400 with own radars? You need just produce own SAM such as patriots with domestic radars which have optimal range / altitude ratio and own missiles.
Instead of buying 2 s400 battery you could have invested producing 30 HISAR ( long range high altitude ) and the results would be more efficient than s400s.

One S400 has one radar which is very easy to be engaged and destroyed.
But 10 Hisars would have 10 radars which would be difficult to find.
S400 deal was the begging pardon . pathetic.

 

[Ansu fati]

This is what S-400's own radar can detect for different target altitudes, this means if we don't integrate the S-400 in national wide airdefense & radar systems it's full potential can't be used.

AWACS, early warning radars and even OTH radars are needed.

But that would mean getting russian AWACS...

 

[UkroTurk]

But that would mean getting russian AWACS...

S400 doesn't need any AWACS. S400 systems are against AWACS at 400km.

I would prefer 3 patriot or s300 batteries rather than 1 s400 battery .

If you believe in that the world is not globe i have no words. But as you can see the world is round. At 3000 feet altitude beyond 77.3 miles ground based ( on the sea) radar will be blind.

So you should ask your enemies to attack you at higher altitudes as you have s400 air defence systems.

 

[CAN_TR]

Radar range for which altitudes? At 20.000meter to lock on AWACS or F16s?

What kind of moron would send fighters at 20k altitude onto enemy's territory?
This range is not effective .

10-15k detection is still impressive.

If you believe in that the world is not globe i have no words. But as you can see the world is round. At 3000 feet altitude beyond 77.3 miles ground based ( on the sea) radar will be blind.

So you should ask your enemies to attack you at higher altitudes as you have s400 air defence systems.

Not if it's connected with national wide airdefense and radar systems.

 

[Oublious]

s400 will not used alone, in the future it will be used with Hisar A and O. Declaring S400 useless is a useless statement. Remember when we downed Russian fighter single S400 closed our airspace.

 

[Ansu fati]

s400 will not used alone, in the future it will be used with Hisar A and O. Declaring S400 useless is a useless statement. Remember when we downed Russian fighter single S400 closed our airspace.

S400 is good air defense but only if integrated with other assets like hisar a hisar o and other radars through kement data link bur for this we will have to wait perhaps until 2023
S400 working alone has been never been tested so despite being impressive on paper
there are legitimate doubts about effectiveness on the field
In syria it’s true that they closed airspace
but russians have placed all kinds of air defense plus regime batteries like s-200/s-300 they have multi layered defense that’s why russia control the skies
I wonder whether s400 alone can survive several SOM B2/J missiles or 150 kargu suicide drone in swarm attack most likely s400 would be knocked out in both cases

 

[UkroTurk]

10-15k detection is still impressive.



Not if it's connected with national wide airdefense and radar systems.

Have you just claimed that 2 battery of s400 would be connected with all Turkish ground radars?

10-15k altitude what ? Meter or feet and which range?
I have just shared the maximum range of xband signals...
Waste of money for which missions? Can you understand , your enemies would never attack you at 45.000f altitude.!!! And for dedecting AWACS aircraft with big RCS at 400km spending 2billion is very smart. (you are already capable of it ) you could have bought cheaper systems.

S400 is good air defense but only if integrated with other assets like hisar a hisar o and other assets through kement data link bur for this we will have to wait perhaps until 2023
S400 working alone has been never been tested so despite being impressive on paper
there are legitimate doubts about effectiveness on the field
In syria it’s true that they closed airspace
but russians have placed all kinds of air defense plus regime batteries like s-200/s-300 they have multi layered defense that’s why they control skies

I can't understand why on the earth you should buy SAM system which you will connect with domestic SAM systems which are capable of searching and engaging and hitting.

It looks like as if you were buying s400 to connect with your future s300s. Guys s400 is s300 or Hisar with extended radar range.
Who says russians have multilayer air defence with s400 and s300. It is bullshit.

There is any multilayer umbrella consists from s300 and s400s. Bullshit.

If there is s300 , they wont use additional s400.
TOR- which is equivalent of Turkish HiSAR-A -is being used for low altitude covering. However TOR and S400 have any connected link between them. Bought are separated autonomous systems.

You all are tempted by 400km range of s400 but it is effective at very high altitude. So you spent twice for nothing. Russia is very large country they need cover airspace against from AWACS and B52s, that's all. They didn't aim to hit any f35 from Moscow above siberia , while sitting in the capital.
Your ground radars and f16s already can engage AWACS above your country.

I would like to know why Russians produce diverse missiles with different ranges for s400? Why dont all missiles have 400km range? Why isnt s400 system supplied just with 40N6E missiles? Why there is a missile 9m96e which has 100km range? Is it possible that they might have been aware of capability of s400system? And they might not have expectedmore ?

 

[Timur]

s400 needs to be connected to turkish radars groundbased and air based..
s400 needs korkut and hisar a would be a good thing to haveit..
awacs integration is also needed

we are talking about something like f16 without awacs without air defence only with its own radar and maybe without datalink.. would that be smart to use it like this?