Turkish Air Defence Programs

[what]

Thought this was interesting and widely unreported:

The US army asked for funds to expand the somewhat secret radar station somewhere around Malatya and is speculating that this would only make sense if THAAD was ultimately to be deployed there. Obviously since relations are at a low no idea if they went ahead with their plans.


http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...nd-a-secretive-missile-defense-site-in-turkey

 

[TheMightyBender]

Ooooyy oy

U.S. State Department in talks with Turkey to sell Patriot system
Reuters Staff

FARNBOROUGH (Reuters) - The U.S. State Department is negotiating a potential deal to sell Turkey the Raytheon Co Patriot missile defense system as an alternative to the Russian-made S-400 system Turkey has agreed to purchase, an official said on Monday.


FILE PHOTO: U.S. soldiers stand beside a U.S. Patriot missile system at a Turkish military base in Gaziantep, southeastern Turkey, October 10, 2014.. REUTERS/Osman Orsal
U.S. Ambassador Kaidanow, the Acting Assistant Secretary of State for Political-Military Affairs, told reporters that a delegation of U.S. government officials at the Farnborough Airshow was holding meetings with allies in the hopes of bolstering U.S. defense trade.


She said the U.S. State Department was in talks with Turkey and “trying to give the Turks an understanding of what we can do with respect to Patriot.” She did not say if the delegations were meeting at the air show.


Turkey has attracted criticism from NATO allies over its planned purchase of the S-400 missile defense systems from Russia, which could jeopardize Ankara’s purchase of Lockheed Martin made F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jets.

“Ultimately we are concerned that by purchasing these systems from the Russians it will be supportive of some of the least good behavior that we have seen from them (Russia) in various places including Europe but also elsewhere,” Kaidanow said.


She said Washington wanted to ensure that systems acquired by U.S. allies “remain supportive of the strategic relationship between us and our allies, in the case of Turkey that is Patriots.”

In April, the Trump administration rolled out a long-awaited overhaul of U.S. arms export policy aimed at expanding sales to allies, saying it would bolster the American defense industry and create jobs at home.

 

[rajvoSa]

You beat me to it, I was just gonna to post that. Must say this turkish gambit over S400 may prove to be genius move, succesfully laveraging Russia -US to give them what they want. It was a risky move, there was a real risk of alienating US and allies and undermining its standing insuide NATO, but then again Turkey is to important for NATO to lose. And Turkish gov knows it. NATO losing Turkey would be in many ways comparable in some even more determental then Franch withdrawal from integreted high command bac kin the 1966.

But still, lets waite a bit more and see how will this end

 

[Faith_of_the_Fallen]

You beat me to it, I was just gonna to post that. Must say this turkish gambit over S400 may prove to be genius move, succesfully laveraging Russia -US to give them what they want. It was a risky move, there was a real risk of alienating US and allies and undermining its standing insuide NATO, but then again Turkey is to important for NATO to lose. And Turkish gov knows it. NATO losing Turkey would be in many ways comparable in some even more determental then Franch withdrawal from integreted high command bac kin the 1966.

But still, lets waite a bit more and see how will this end

The reason Turkey is hell bent on buying S-400s is due to inability to buy modern air defence system from US for years. They have been stalling Turkey for years, while stating that they intend to sell Turkey. It has been proven numerious times that Turkey can not depend on waiting for US decision to sell their systems.

 

[rajvoSa]

Yeah, I know. And it seems Turkey will end up having both system. while simultaneously devoloping their own Air Defence systems. I mean, if this plays out like this and there are strong indication that it will, as I sad in previous post its nothing less then huge win for Turkey. In worse case scenario they ll got new Patriots- S400 is still untested in real combat sitution.

 

[OguzSenturk]

US has no air defence system to offer with similar specs as S-400's. S-400 in İzmir can cover entire Aegean Sea by itself and it would be even used as assault platform rather than defence.

 

[rajvoSa]

US has no air defence system to offer with similar specs as S-400's. S-400 in İzmir can cover entire Aegean Sea by itself and it would be even used as assault platform rather than defence.

Indeed. S400 has a longer range. And its cost effective. The Patriot is a system that is designed to provide medium range air and missile defense over a much smaller geographic area. However, it’s complemented by a host of other systems that together provide much more capable air defenses than the S400. There is also a thing of PAtriots being able to be integrated in wider NATO network which has its own benefits.

Having both systems would be an ideal scenario. Indeed.

 

[Stimpy75]

.....and the Patriot has a switch off button(my guess)...thx but no thx

 

[rajvoSa]

.....and the Patriot has a switch off button(my guess)...thx but no thx

Lets say it has. Why do you think S400 wouldn have one too. I mean... there are greater chances that Turkey would be engaged in some sorta confrontation with Russia or one of their allies, then fellow NATO member with a nuclear base in middle of Turkey.

In any case, swich or notswich I hope that turkish defence industry will in medium term have its own air defence systems capable to deal and pose a challenge to such air threats.

Everytime when Im talking about devolopment od turkish air defence systems, watching tests and seeing progress made, I cant help not to remember smug russian scientiest working for the company that makes S400 when asked about posible technology transfer to Turkey and him answering: Even with transfer Turks couldn produce system like this in 100 years. I mean **** you.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Lets say it has. Why do you think S400 wouldn have one too. I mean... there are greater chances that Turkey would be engaged in some sorta confrontation with Russia or one of their allies, then fellow NATO member with a nuclear base in middle of Turkey.

In any case, swich or notswich I hope that turkish defence industry will in medium term have its own air defence systems capable to deal and pose a challenge to such air threats.

Everytime when Im talking about devolopment od turkish air defence systems, watching tests and seeing progress made, I cant help not to remember smug russian scientiest working for the company that makes S400 when asked about posible technology transfer to Turkey and him answering: Even with transfer Turks couldn produce system like this in 100 years. I mean **** you.

Dude, Russian side are famous for giving false information.. in their head, Turkey just started to produce ammunition..
S400 is good for awacs or jets, but not for Ballistic missiles..

 

[Nutuk]

Dude, Russian side are famous for giving false information.. in their head, Turkey just started to produce ammunition..
S400 is good for awacs or jets, but not for Ballistic missiles..

S-400 is primarily against aircraft indeed, with anti-ballistic ability (meaning not directly designed against ballistic missiles)

but

Patriot was also not designed against ballistic missiles, only the PAC-3 missiles are specifically for anti ballisic and the PAC-3 missile is medium range (40km range).


So there is a dillemma of choice for Turkey, Turkish primary needs is good coverage against enemy airpower. For that we need long range, high altitude missiles (S-400 provides that) on the other hand the lesser need is also anti ballistic missiles (options are medium range PAC-3 or long range THAAD)


Personally I do not regard Turkey in direct danger of ballisic missiles and if than only medium range anti ballistic defence is insufficient (also in ballistic missile defense needs a layered sollution short, medium and long range defense).

So with only buying PAC-3 missiles we are not sufficiently covered, the US has SM-3 missiles for long range defense, we do not!

We can cover Turkey with PAC-3 only if we buy a lot of launchers and missiles to cover the large Turkish airspace (but imagine how much that would cost!)

 

[Kamil_baku]

S-400 is primarily against aircraft indeed, with anti-ballistic ability (meaning not directly designed against ballistic missiles)

but

Patriot was also not designed against ballistic missiles, only the PAC-3 missiles are specifically for anti ballisic and the PAC-3 missile is medium range (40km range).


So there is a dillemma of choice for Turkey, Turkish primary needs is good coverage against enemy airpower. For that we need long range, high altitude missiles (S-400 provides that) on the other hand the lesser need is also anti ballistic missiles (options are medium range PAC-3 or long range THAAD)


Personally I do not regard Turkey in direct danger of ballisic missiles and if than only medium range anti ballistic defence is insufficient (also in ballistic missile defense needs a layered sollution short, medium and long range defense).

So with only buying PAC-3 missiles we are not sufficiently covered, the US has SM-3 missiles for long range defense, we do not!

We can cover Turkey with PAC-3 only if we buy a lot of launchers and missiles to cover the large Turkish airspace (but imagine how much that would cost!)

Exactlyyy, min over 10 billion $ which doesnt ever worth it.. I would rather develop rail gun.. that will be the real ballistic missile killer...

 

[Quasar]

HİSAR from a foreign eye! Matsimus has some realy fun videos worth checking!

 

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Aselsan 35mm ATOM airburst munition

 

[what]

In a 12 June, television interview Minister Canikli disclosed that the HISAR-U will be ineffective against ballistic missile targets and can only be used against air breathing targets, including fighter jets, UAVs and cruise missiles. He also disclosed it will have an effective range of 70-90km, while Mr. Demir stated in an earlier interview that the system will be ready for serial production in 2022-2023.

https://www.monch.com/mpg/news/soldier-channel/3882-tr1.html

Is this true?