Turkey’s S-400 vs F-35 dilemma in 2019

[Ansu fati]

There are a lot of issues intertwined between US and Turkey but I believe when the most important ones are solved F-35s will be in malatya airbase as originally intended
When pkk is removed from the northern syria(i hope until 2023) and when turkish long range air defense system is ready(2023-25) S400/F-35 issue will be easily solved
Now i see some reports that pkk wants to fight together with assad in idlib and even they dream about capturing afrin under russia(comrade) command if this materializes then the first problem(removal of pkk from N.Syria) might be solved earlier(2021)
Anyway I think sooner or later F-35 will come to Turkey right now there’s no urgent need of 5th generation fighter

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

I think we never needed the S-400s. We just needed an ADS like S-300PM2 and Patriot/Aster-30. I think the US wouldn't have given us our F-35s no matter what we do but if that wasn't the case; I think we could've got the F-35s from the US if we had an ADS like S-300 and not like the S-400. US doesn't want us to have S-400s because we are an important customer and after the S-400 deal, about 10-15 other counties showed interest for it. But it's a known fact that S-400 is a more advenced version of S-300PM2 and they are very similar. With that they'd had to give us our F-35s because half of the NATO already operates the S-300 and both the US and Israel are already using that planes over the skies of Syria; so they couldn't have blamed the S-400 for it. And the thing is, we never needed an ADS with a missile range of 400 kilometers. We just needed a system like S-300PM2 and Patriot. It was silly that our politicans decided on buying the S-400 instead.

 

[UkroTurk]

Guys still have you been discussing which one is better?

F35

 

[Ansu fati]

I think we never needed the S-400s. We just needed an ADS like S-300PM2 and Patriot/Aster-30. I think the US wouldn't have given us our F-35s no matter what we do but if that wasn't the case; I think we could've got the F-35s from the US if we had an ADS like S-300 and not like the S-400. US doesn't want us to have S-400s because we are an important customer and after the S-400 deal, about 10-15 other counties showed interest for it. But it's a known fact that S-400 is a more advenced version of S-300PM2 and they are wery similar. With that they'd had to give us our F-35s because half of the NATO already operates the S-300 and both the US and Israel are already using that planes over the skies of Syria; so they couldn't have blamed the S-400 for it. And the thing is, we never needed an ADS with a missile range of 400 kilometers. We just needed a system like S-300PM2 and Patriot. It was silly that our politicans decided on buying the S-400 instead.

S-400 in Turkey is still an asset because sooner or later US(and Uk/Israel or other nato countries) would like to do SEAD exercises with S-400 so there’s definitely space for a win win deal but it all depends on stupid congress which is currently dominated by lobbies with anti turkish feelings
I don’t think that US is concerned about F-35 and S400 being in proximity(you know the so called tech-stealing by russians that was invented by MSM) because there’s already s400 in syria which covers whole israel a country with F-35s
As you said they are buthurt because other countries who have more money to spend(saudi qatar india maybe later uae??) were encouraged when Turkey defiantly bought the system this is the main problem nothing else

@ÇölKaplanı i want to ask you one question since 2-3 days ago
Are you really new user?? because you sound too familiar to me

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

S-400 in Turkey is still an asset because sooner or later US(and Uk/Israel or other nato countries) would like to do SEAD exercises with S-400 so there’s definitely space for a win win deal but it all depends on stupid congress which is currently dominated by lobbies with anti turkish feelings
I don’t think that US is concerned about F-35 and S400 being in proximity(you know the so called tech-stealing by russians that was invented by MSM) because there’s already s400 in syria which covers whole israel a country with F-35s
As you said they are buthurt because other countries who have more money to spend(saudi qatar india maybe later uae??) were encouraged when Turkey defiantly bought the system this is the main problem nothing else

The problem is that It was silly that our politicans decided on buying the S-400 instead. I still can't get it that why the airforce didn't do anything about it. Biliyorsunuzdur Beyazıt Karataş gibi eski komutanlar bile cahilce bir şekilde ekrandan ekrana gezip F-35'e bok atıp S-400'e mehtiyeler diziyordu. Emekli bir komutan bile bu birbirinden çok alakasız iki silahı bile karşılaştıracak kadar salaksa aslında bu alınan aptalca kararlara şaşırmamak gerek. Ya hayır anlamıyorum, sanki uçağı yakından mı gördü, sanki uçurdu mu, ya da uçak hakkında top secret birşeyler mi biliyorlar da böyle rahatça bok atabiliyorlar kafam almıyor. Yemin ederim TSK'daki Avrasya'cı kesim NATO'cu kesimden bile daha aptal. Zaten bu durumun F-35 ve S-400 ile bile alakası yok. Aha örnek mesela Rusya İdlip hava sahasını şimdi bize kapatamazdı. İsrail gibi olta atardık Suriye'de. Önemli olan F-35 ve S-400 değil. Önemli olan Hava Kuvvetlerinin 2030'lara kadar çok zayıf kalması. Çevremizdeki ülkelerin envanterlerine bir bakar mısınız arkadaşlar? Ve ayrıca F-35'te bunca problemin çıkması çok normal çünkü F-35 zamanının çok ötesinde, teknolojinin sınırlarını zorlayan bir uçak.

Guys still have you been discussing which one is better?

F35

IMO, you're absolutely right. We needed a new plane more than we needed an ADS because Siper is about to come in just 2 or 3 years and I think we could've waited for them and get the F-35s. We saw what happened in Idlib, Standalone ADS are a piece of junk and we'll have to operate the S-400 standalone too I don't get it, how can our generals be so dumb and couldn't see what we can(amateurs) see.

Are you really new user?? because you sound too familiar to me

I am new. Who did you think I was?

 

[Ansu fati]

The problem is that It was silly that our politicans decided on buying the S-400 instead. I still can't get it that why the airforce didn't do anything about it. Biliyorsunuzdur Beyazıt Karataş gibi eski komutanlar bile cahilce bir şekilde ekrandan ekrana gezip F-35'e bok atıp S-400'e mehtiyeler diziyordu. Emekli bir komutan bile bu birbirinden çok alakasız iki silahı bile karşılaştıracak kadar salaksa aslında bu alınan aptalca kararlara şaşırmamak gerek. Ya hayır anlamıyorum, sanki uçağı yakından mı gördü, sanki uçurdu mu, ya da uçak hakkında top secret birşeyler mi biliyorlar da böyle rahatça bok atabiliyorlar kafam almıyor. Yemin ederim TSK'daki Avrasya'cı kesim NATO'cu kesimden bile daha aptal. Zaten bu durumun F-35 ve S-400 ile bile alakası yok. Aha örnek mesela Rusya İdlip hava sahasını şimdi bize kapatamazdı. İsrail gibi olta atardık Suriye'de. Önemli olan F-35 ve S-400 değil. Önemli olan Hava Kuvvetlerinin 2030'lara kadar çok zayıf kalması. Çevremizdeki ülkelerin envanterlerine bir bakar mısınız arkadaşlar? Ve ayrıca F-35'te bunca problemin çıkması çok normal çünkü F-35 zamanının çok ötesinde, teknolojinin sınırlarını zorlayan bir uçak.
IMO, you're absolutely right. We needed a new plane more than we needed an ADS because Siper is about to come in just 2 or 3 years and I think we could've waited for them and get the F-35s. We saw what happened in Idlib, Standalone ADS are a piece of junk and we'll have to operate the S-400 standalone too I don't get it, how can our generals be so dumb and couldn't see what we can(amateurs) see.
I am new. Who did you think I was?

I thought you are @Nein actually I miss his comments and you reminded me of him he
We have some generals with ideological problems they would rather promote/criticize something with childish/amateurish behavior than professional one
Regarding F-35/S400 i will say that attack is the best defense in other news F-35 is much more beneficial especially in the future when achieves “smart” network centric capabilities but I think that S400 isn’t bad purchase
There are some interesting ongoing programs like havasoj(airborne version of koral but more advanced) hisar/siper and TF-X I think that all of these programs can get much better if they are being tested together with/against S400(the most advanced so far russian SAM) this is the main benefit of having S400 but i agree that being operated as standalone won’t be useful for real defense but as i heard few months ago turkish defense officials were saying they want to connect it through kement with hisar A/O so maybe it will operate alone only at the beginning
Regarding the neighbors and their figjter purchase i will say this only israel is worth to be mentioned but I regard them as frenemy they are focused exclusively on iran(and its proxies) they will never be military threat to Turkey(I can bet on this)

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

I thought you are @Nein actually I miss his comments and you reminded me of him he
We have some generals with ideological problems they would rather promote/criticize something with childish/amateurish behavior than professional one
Regarding F-35/S400 i will say that attack is the best defense in other news F-35 is much more beneficial especially in the future when achieves “smart” network centric capabilities but I think that S400 isn’t bad purchase
There are some interesting ongoing programs like havasoj(airborne version of koral but more advanced) hisar/siper and TF-X I think that all of these programs can get much better if they are being tested together with/against S400(the most advanced so far russian SAM) this is the main benefit of having S400 but i agree that being operated as standalone won’t be useful for real defense but as i heard few months ago turkish defense officials were saying they want to connect it through kement with hisar A/O so maybe it will operate alone only at the beginning
Regarding the neighbors and their figjter purchase i will say this only israel is worth to be mentioned but I regard them as frenemy they are focused exclusively on iran(and its proxies) they will never be military threat to Turkey(I can bet on this)

What about Greece? They are very underrated among the Turkish defence enthusiasts. They're a small nation but they almost have thee same airpower as we have. They have better pilots, their air bases are much more closer to the Agean Sea which means they will able to do more sorties. They are already modernizing their F-16s to Block 50+ and block 70 level, they will most likely upgrade their Mirages as well and they are planning to operate 20 to 40 F-35s by 2030. Imagine what they would be capable to do if they didn't had a bad economy.

 

[WarDaddy97]

S-400 in Turkey is still an asset because sooner or later US(and Uk/Israel or other nato countries) would like to do SEAD exercises with S-400 so there’s definitely space for a win win deal but it all depends on stupid congress which is currently dominated by lobbies with anti turkish feelings
I don’t think that US is concerned about F-35 and S400 being in proximity(you know the so called tech-stealing by russians that was invented by MSM) because there’s already s400 in syria which covers whole israel a country with F-35s
As you said they are buthurt because other countries who have more money to spend(saudi qatar india maybe later uae??) were encouraged when Turkey defiantly bought the system this is the main problem nothing else

@ÇölKaplanı i want to ask you one question since 2-3 days ago
Are you really new user?? because you sound too familiar to me

The moment you allow NATO access to S400, Putin will call Erdogan, RTE and his cabinet will immediately fly to Moscow, where Vlad, behind closed doors of course, will rip RTE a new one.
This shit is not a joke, guy. Some of you have very much “bazaar type” mentality.
With regard to S400... we have phenomenal working relationship with Ukrainian military. During USSR, most soviet officers and NCOs were of Ukrainian origin. Push comes to shove we have lot more other ways to analyze s400. Besides it’s not much different from 300

 

[Glass]

Look who's talking. You're not even woth wasting time. You better look back to your previous posts and think about your attitude towards us. Honestly you have no difference than the others you mentioned. You trolls are living to take some attention but I won't be giving that to you.

^How about u growing a thicker skin? Wardaddy is Russian-american and obviously upset because he knows exactly that we can toy around the S400 much to Russias consequence, rather then jumping around that fact ur moving the discussion towards a different direction.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

^How about u growing a thicker skin? Wardaddy is Russian-american and obviously upset because he knows exactly that we can toy around the S400 much to Russias consequence, rather then jumping around that fact ur moving the discussion towards a different direction.

I could've, but I really don't want to waste my time with people like him. Everyone knows he's just trying to troll but in my book the best answer to a troll is ignoring them. There are some people who have an ability use their brains and some people don't. Bazı insanlara sözünü geçirebilirsin, bazılarına da geçiremezsin...

The best answer to a troll is ignoring them and obviously other members can see what's going on here, I'm okay with ignoring and not giving his answer to this dumb fuckface as long as others can see what's going on.

 

[Saithan]

IMO we weren’t going to get the F35 ever since 2010. So people who still thinks that are dreamers. Since we’re surrounded by enemies, it won’t matter to NATO if our arms isn’t on same level as theirs. Because we need NATO, or reliable allies. And unfortunately Azerbaijan is the only trustworthy ally. And we can’t drag them into the shit we’re getting involved with. In short we’re pretty much stuck where we are, and need to be self reliant.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

IMO we weren’t going to get the F35 ever since 2010. So people who still thinks that are dreamers. Since we’re surrounded by enemies, it won’t matter to NATO if our arms isn’t on same level as theirs. Because we need NATO, or reliable allies. And unfortunately Azerbaijan is the only trustworthy ally. And we can’t drag them into the shit we’re getting involved with. In short we’re pretty much stuck where we are, and need to be self reliant.

We lost our chance in 2015. You can think about the reasons by yourself since it would be too long to write here for me. But anyway brother, instead of thinking about when we lost our chance; why don't we think about what we can do to make it up for it? Buying another air-superiority jet or trying to manage the situation with Hurjet, drones and ADSs?

 

[Saithan]

We lost our chance in 2015. You can think about the reasons by yourself since it would be too long to write here for me. But anyway brother, instead of thinking about when we lost our chance; why don't we think about what we can do to make it up for it? Buying another air-superiority jet or trying to manage the situation with Hurjet, drones and ADSs?

I didn’t really spell it out, but our existing projects, and especially hurjet is what I hope will catapult us forward. In truth we’re walking forward already.

But I can’t be the only one who feel anxious for being behind on critical areas. Still it’s better than rushing forward.

 

[ÇölKaplanı]

I didn’t really spell it out, but our existing projects, and especially hurjet is what I hope will catapult us forward. In truth we’re walking forward already.

But I can’t be the only one who feel anxious for being behind on critical areas. Still it’s better than rushing forward.

IMO, if we can't get the F-35 or at least F-15s, we need to upgrade our F-16s to B70 variant and produce about 60 Hurjet LCAs and try to take some of the pressure from them with Hisar and Siper. Some people started to bring additional F-16 B70 purchase but we need a twin-engine air superiority fighter.

 

[Glass]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1246385424332881920