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Turkey’s Defense Industry Has Come A Long Way, But Ankara Still Relies Heavily On Foreign Suppliers

It is a shame about the engines for the T-129, i guess that will be lesson for Turkey to make sure all its programmes are ITAR free for the future.

Engines are the achilles heel of most military programmes and even China at times struggles with engines. It is a complicated issue, but one that Turkey can address.

I suspect, that PA will want to wait for the T-129s. Drones hae changed the equation and PA has bought quite a few of them recently, so i think they can afford to wait.

This is not about the Z-10 not being good enough, it is about military diversity and therefore capability. Standardisation and diversity have their own military benefits and issues. Pakistan "wants" to "develop" Turkey as a military weapons supplier by actively getting involved in procuring some of them.

Yes, China can provide everything, that is not the issue here.
You gotta Wait for an other century bud. Your emotional government and its agreements are absolutely hilarious. First the Qatari LNG and now the engine-less helos of Turkey. Bhia bhai has a cost anyways bro 😁
btw Pakistan
This is our top notch helo product. Enjoy

Toophan-2 heli, engine and avionics made in Iran.
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Toophan-2 in comparison with American Cobra and the upgraded cobras with the Toophan-1 codename.
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An other completely Iranian helo with both civilian and military functionality.
Saba chopper
Saba_248_helicopter_(12).jpg

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All of Iranian made helos in one picture.
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Yeaaah , its American COBRA Attack Helicopter with İranian name

stop lying
İran has no turboshaft engine
Are you joking? Iran has unveiled its engines a Long time ago. Both Turbojet and Turboshaft engines.

Cobras were upgraded to Toophan-1 Standard. Toophan-2 helos are made in Iran completely.
 
Are you joking? Iran has unveiled its engines a Long time ago. Both Turbojet and Turboshaft engines.

Cobras were upgraded to Toophan-1 Standard. Toophan-2 helos are made in Iran completely.

where is İranian Turboshaft Engine ? İran can not develop even blisk-spool technology

copycat İran with low quality outdated copy products which have no world class certificate

even İran can not develop high quality avionics - electronics for Helicopters



now Turkey develops 100% indigenous T-629 Attack Helicopter and T-625 multi-role Helicopter including TS1400 turboshaft Engine
Turkey is only Country in İslamic World that develop and produce Helicopters - Turboshaft Engines

Turkey has its own technological capability to produce the main components of the Helicopters

-- fuselage
-- electronics and avionics
-- mission computer
-- Helicopter electronic warfare system
-- Infrared Counter Measure System
-- HELMET Integrated Display System
-- fire control radar
-- the main and tail landing gear
-- Engine
-- the transmission rotor
-- 20mm and 30 mm Gun with buried munition box
-- guided rocket
-- missiles


TAI T-625 GOKBEY

Length : 15.87 m
Max take off weight : 6050 kg
Max cruise speed : 306 km/h
Service ceiling : 6.096 m
Range : 740 km
Capacity : 12


TAI T-625 made its maiden flight on sept. 6 2018. and first 3 T-625 Helicopters will be delivered to Gendarme in 2022
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Turkiye was become one of a few Countries in the World that develop Gas Turbine Engines

TEI-TS1400 engine was designed to power the T625 multirole Helicopter
1616148765599.png

 
where is İranian Turboshaft Engine ? İran can not develop even blisk-spool technology

copycat İran with low quality outdated copy products which have no world class certificate

even İran can not develop high quality avionics - electronics for Helicopters



now Turkey develops 100% indigenous T-629 Attack Helicopter and T-625 multi-role Helicopter including TS1400 turboshaft Engine
Turkey is only Country in İslamic World that develop and produce Helicopters - Turboshaft Engines

Turkey has its own technological capability to produce the main components of the Helicopters

-- fuselage
-- electronics and avionics
-- mission computer
-- Helicopter electronic warfare system
-- Infrared Counter Measure System
-- HELMET Integrated Display System
-- fire control radar
-- the main and tail landing gear
-- Engine
-- the transmission rotor
-- 20mm and 30 mm Gun with buried munition box
-- guided rocket
-- missiles


TAI T-625 GOKBEY

Length : 15.87 m
Max take off weight : 6050 kg
Max cruise speed : 306 km/h
Service ceiling : 6.096 m
Range : 740 km
Capacity : 12


TAI T-625 made its maiden flight on sept. 6 2018. and first 3 T-625 Helicopters will be delivered to Gendarme in 2022
View attachment 725970
View attachment 725971



Turkiye was become one of a few Countries in the World that develop Gas Turbine Engines

TEI-TS1400 engine was designed to power the T625 multirole Helicopter
View attachment 725972
Whatever dude,

First you have to deliver Pakistani choppers then i will believe you. For now you are talking about future projects or the engines imported from Europe.

Iran is sanctioned and given that engines are critical parts of military hardwares, no major producing country would sell us these engines. We have to stand on our feet undesirably or desirably.
 
First you have to deliver Pakistani choppers then i will believe you. For now you are talking about future projects or the engines imported from Europe.

We dont care about İran or Pakistan what they will believe us or not

its not future project
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Nobody can develop and use an engine for Helicopters in 4 years


TEI has started developing TS-1400 turboshaft engine in 2017
and in 2021, TEI delivered TS-1400 turboshaft engines to Turkish Aerospace Industries for integration it into the T-625 Helicopter

in 2024 , TS-1400 turboshaft engine will be ready for mass production ....
so 7 years for developing/integration/certificate ( 2017-2024 )


Turkish products have high quality world class certificate to be exported worldwide to match with American - Russian - European products

on the other hand , İranian products have no world class certificate , therefore you can say that İran develops everything but in reality İran is nothing to do with world class high quality



TEI develop turboshaft engine family through TS-1400 engine for Turkish Helicopter projects

-- 5 tons class T-625 utility Helicopter
-- 10 tons class utility Helicopter
-- 6 tons class T-629 Attack Helicopter
-- 10 tons class T-929 Attack Helicopter


İran , Pakistan or Indonesia or Egypt , S.Arabia can not do it


Turkey has started developing weapons after 2004
and only in 16 years , the rate of indigenous production in the Turkish defense sector had risen from 20% to over 70%

and until 2030 the rate of indigenous production in the Turkish defense sector will rise to over 90%
 
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Sooo iran copying US designs is OK, as is china using soviet/european designs to build own stuff, but it is bad if turkey does it? this looks just like the posts that indians do against paksitani def industry.
 
Jul 25, 2020,09:48am EDT

Turkey’s Defense Industry Has Come A Long Way, But Ankara Still Relies Heavily On Foreign Suppliers

Paul IddonContributor

Aerospace & Defense

In recent years, Turkey’s defense industry has proven itself capable of designing and manufacturing a variety of increasingly sophisticated weapon systems. Turkish officials boast that these capabilities are bringing an end to the country’s reliance on foreign sources and suppliers for its military hardware.

In reality, Turkey is still heavily reliant on foreign sources for a great deal of its military hardware and technology and will remain so for quite some time.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan declared that Turkey plans to eliminate all dependency on foreign suppliers for its defense industry by 2023, the centennial of the foundation of the Turkish republic.

Turkey is not going to be able to end such dependencies by 2023 or even by the end of this decade. This is because the country still requires a highly substantive amount of foreign expertise, hardware and technology for the majority of its military projects.

Take Turkey’s MILGEM national warship project, which is supplying the Turkish Navy with new multipurpose frigates as well as corvettes that each specialize in different roles such as anti-air and anti-submarine warfare. The project is impressive and ambitious and has increased the Turkish Navy’s size and strength.

However, this national warship project is far from being a wholly indigenous one since only 60 percent of its production is local. Also, the upcoming TCG Anadolu, the amphibious assault ship (LHD) that will become the Turkish Navy’s flagship, has the same design as Spain’s Juan Carlos I but will be fitted with Turkish-built systems.

Turkey’s T129 ATAK attack helicopter conspicuously resembles the AgustaWestland A129 because it is, of course, based on that established airframe but outfitted with Turkish-made avionics and weapons.

Nevertheless, its reliance on foreign hardware for building the ATAK was brought home to Turkey when it tried to arrange a deal to sell Pakistan a fleet of 30 T129s for $1.5 billion only to be reminded it needed U.S. export licenses to do so since the helicopter contains U.S.-built engine parts.

Turkey’s upcoming Altay main battle tank, which it hopes to build large numbers of to replace its older fleet of Leopard II and M60 Patton tanks as well as sell to other countries, is heavily based on the South Korean K2 Black Panther. Turkey’s T-155 Fırtına artillery guns are also based on the South Korean K-9 Thunder system built under license with Turkish components and modifications.

The majority of the Turkish defense industry’s projects are very heavily based on existing foreign designs with local modifications, which most certainly doesn’t make them indigenous systems but rather license-built Turkish variants of foreign systems. Turkey has built F-16s under license for years but never acted as if it conceived, designed, and then built those fighter jets from scratch.

"It is not easy to assess precisely the extent to which Turkey's defense industry is meeting the national military needs," said defense analyst Yvonni-Stefania Efstathiou. "Yet what Turkey usually calls indigenous systems are, in reality, license-produced or based on imported sub-components."

Turkey got suspended from the fifth-generation F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program by the United States after it controversially bought sophisticated S-400 air defense missiles from Russia and began taking delivery of them last year.

That suspension may well have ended any possibility that Ankara can possess a fifth-generation fighter jet for at least another decade. Erdogan has claimed that Turkey can complete its own TAI TF-X project or buy Russian Su-57s in the near future but neither of these options are as feasible as he suggests.

Turkey faces many obstacles to making the TF-X a successful fifth-generation fighter jet, arguably the main one being designing and building a proper engine for it.

In 2018, Turkey announced its decision to power the TF-X’s prototype with standard General Electric F110 engines as “a stopgap solution” until it builds a much more advanced engine that will adequately meet the various requirements of a fifth-generation jet.

A fifth-generation engine is absolutely essential for the development of an effective and stealthy fifth-generation jet. It’s also an extremely difficult thing to design and build. Russia has so far failed to build effective Izdeliye 30 engines for its Su-57, which is still little more than a prototype, despite over a decade of trying.

In 2017, Turkey and Britain signed a deal valued at roughly $130 million to develop the TF-X. However, Rolls-Royce dialed back its bid to work with Turkish defense firms to design and build the jet’s engine in 2019 over fears its intellectual property would be shared by Ankara with a third party.

Turkey expressed its willingness to renegotiate the terms of cooperation with Rolls-Royce in late 2019, probably out of recognition it will need all the help it can get to build a proper engine for the TF-X.

However, even a successful partnership with Rolls-Royce wouldn’t necessarily guarantee the design and manufacture of a fifth-generation engine for Turkey’s TF-X for many more years to come.

The only experience Rolls-Royce has to date in building a fifth-generation jet fighter engine was in a joint project with General Electric to develop the F136 turbofan engine for the F-35. However, that project was discontinued nearly a decade ago.

Even if Rolls-Royce could successfully help Turkey build a suitable engine for the TF-X, one military aviation expert expressed his doubts that the British defense contractor would provide Ankara with any “large-scale technology transfer of high-end military turbofan manufacturing techniques to develop domestic production capacity.”

In other words, Turkey still wouldn’t be able to build these engines for its first indigenous fighter jet without substantial foreign assistance and know-how.

In light of these examples, talk of Turkey ending its dependency on foreign sources and suppliers for its military projects is highly premature and will most likely remain so for the foreseeable future.

Nations like Turkey, Pakistan, Iran & the CIS states need to cooperate through diversification and share technology to eliminate dependency on western technology.
 
Sooo iran copying US designs is OK, as is china using soviet/european designs to build own stuff, but it is bad if turkey does it? this looks just like the posts that indians do against paksitani def industry.


10 years ago , İranian , İndian , Chinese even most of European users said that Turkey can not develop UCAV
and they said that Turks are so daydreamer


but as of 2021 , Turkey has its own Bayraktar TB-2 , ANKA-S , AKSUNGUR and AKINCI UCAVs

and Turkey is number 1 in the world who used Bayraktar TB-2 and ANKA-S Drones as actively to destroy Air Defense Systems like S300 , BUK , PANTSIR , also hundreds of Tanks , Howitzers , MLRS , etc and thousands of troops in Syria , Libya and Azerbaijan

TURKEY was become one of 4 Drone Super Power in the World .. ( The US , İsrael , Turkey and China )




a few years ago , İranian , İndian , Chinese even most of European users said that Turkish UCAVs use foreign engine

and as of 2021 , indigenous TEI PD-170 Turboprop Engine in mass production for ANKA-S , AKSUNGUR and Bayraktar TB-3 UCAVs
1616152070752.png


even Turkish TEI-PD170 Engine which produces 225 horsepower at the time of take-off and 170 horsepower at a critical altitude of 20.000 feet with its 40.000 feet altitude capability provided by diesel fuel, stands out as the best in its class worldwide





and now İranian , İndian , Chinese even most of European users says Turkish UCAVs depend on Canadian E/O System

now Bayraktar TB-2 UCAVs use indigenous E/O System instead of Canadian E/O System
even Turkish ASELSAN CATS E/O System has more range than Canadian WESCAM E/O System
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only in 18 years , the rate of indigenous production in the Turkish defense sector had risen from 20% to over 70% between 2002 and 2020

until 2030 the rate of indigenous production in the Turkish defense sector will rise to over 90%


Nobody can reach the rate of indigenous production with 100% capacity within 15-20 years
Turkey needs more 10 years
 
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10 years ago , İranian , İndian , Chinese even most of European users said that Turkey can not develop UCAV
and they said that Turks are so daydreamer


but as of 2021 , Turkey has its own Bayraktar TB-2 , ANKA-S , AKSUNGUR and AKINCI UCAVs

and Turkey is number 1 in the world who used Bayraktar TB-2 and ANKA-S Drones as actively to destroy Air Defense Systems like S300 , BUK , PANTSIR , also hundreds of Tanks , Howitzers , MLRS , etc and thousands of troops in Syria , Libya and Azerbaijan

TURKEY was become one of 4 Drone Super Power in the World .. ( The US , İsrael , Turkey and China )




a few years ago , İranian , İndian , Chinese even most of European users said that Turkish UCAVs use foreign engine

and as of 2021 , indigenous TEI PD-170 Turboprop Engine in mass production for ANKA-S , AKSUNGUR and Bayraktar TB-3 UCAVs
View attachment 725984

even Turkish TEI-PD170 Engine which produces 225 horsepower at the time of take-off and 170 horsepower at a critical altitude of 20.000 feet with its 40.000 feet altitude capability provided by diesel fuel, stands out as the best in its class worldwide





and now İranian , İndian , Chinese even most of European users says Turkish UCAVs depend on Canadian E/O System

now Bayraktar TB-2 UCAVs use indigenous E/O System instead of Canadian E/O System
even Turkish ASELSAN CATS E/O System has more range than Canadian WESCAM E/O System
View attachment 725985
View attachment 725983


only in 18 years , the rate of indigenous production in the Turkish defense sector had risen from 20% to over 70% between 2002 and 2020

until 2030 the rate of indigenous production in the Turkish defense sector will rise to over 90%


Nobody can reach the rate of indigenous production with 100% capacity within 15-20 years
Turkey needs more 10 years
funny thing is that its the iranians saying this, when no one has ever independently evaluated the quality of their products.
 
but not that deep :) only 4 pieces and 2 of them already solved with national products
 
but not that deep :) only 4 pieces and 2 of them already solved with national products

Aselsan and Baykar successfully completed CATS' firing tests last year.

This system has actually been ready for 3-4 years, but there were some problems with optics. With the overcoming of this problem, there is no longer a need for Wescams, which are used as products on the shelf.


Unfortunately they are late again.
 
but not that deep :) only 4 pieces and 2 of them already solved with national products

Only 4 pieces? I post these articles to complete the whole picture. When I say "deeply dependent" I'm not referring only to this article!

Look at the opening article of this thread, there you can see how deeply dependent Turkey is on foreign technology supply!
 

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