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Turkey’s changes echo Islamic resurgence

So well that all Islamic majority countries are technologically as well as socially the most advanced in the world. NOT!

Acute point, indeed.

Maybe god is just the law of physics-- social reality based on cause and effect relationship is what people believe "the mysterious ways God works."

Actually, there is no mystery.

If one is smart and advanced to manipulate the causes in order to achieve desired effects, that's historical progress, subjectivity.

If one is not smart enough and backward, one is only victim (or winner by coincidence) of historical cause and effect relations; that is, objectivity.

Islamic world with their politicized and anti-nation state religious approaches is bound to be further objectified. They will never be able to achieve subjectivity with this mindset. Not in this millennium.

They need a 15th century European Renaissance.
 
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Just as history is repeating itself; the East will easily overtake the West in the next upcoming years and will remain that way.
The Laws of Nature, 'written' by God, say otherwise. Nothing remains permanent, only God that is transcendent remains unchanged and eternal.
 
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papers or no papers you need to live & enjoy life.:cheers: Even a crack head living in free world would know the taste of freedom while the rich man has his heart will be in golden cage in oppressed land. Freedom is priceless.

im european my friend. You are indian. We both could not be happy and enjoy life in a muslim country. The religion there is like lead, pressing down on one shoulders.
 
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300 - 400 years ago? The west already colonized the entire world and made the muslim countries colonies.

LOL.

Even in mid 17th century, Islamic World was still the most dominant power of the world with Ottomans, Mughals, and so on.

But yeah, last 300 years is Western domination.

Learn basic history. West colonized mainland Muslim territories post 18th century...

You overtake nothing my friend. You sink deeper evry day.

Indonesian economy is projected to be bigger than ALL countries except three (take a guess which three are those. Hint: None of them is European ;) )

Read IMF projections for next 40 years

afaik Israel alone has more scientific papers published each year than the entire muslim world.

Science and technology situation in Muslim World is shameful

That said, you are making a living fool out of yourself as always. But that's ok. I'm here to educate you..once again! :D

Muslim World publishes more than 150,000 scientific papers every year.

Google how many Israel publishes...

Acute point, indeed.

Maybe god is just the law of physics-- social reality based on cause and effect relationship is what people believe "the mysterious ways God works."

Actually, there is no mystery.

If one is smart and advanced to manipulate the causes in order to achieve desired effects, that's historical progress, subjectivity.

If one is not smart enough and backward, one is only victim (or winner by coincidence) of historical cause and effect relations; that is, objectivity.

Islamic world with their politicized and anti-nation state religious approaches is bound to be further objectified. They will never be able to achieve subjectivity with this mindset. Not in this millennium.

They need a 15th century European Renaissance.

lol, what are you even talking about?

Some Muslim countries are doing great--others aren't.

There is no "anti-nation state" sentiment in Muslim World. Its just that Muslim countries...and many Muslims..see themselves part of a global civilization of Islam (The first, and only standing global civilization of humanity).

Turkey, Indonesia, GCC-Arab World, and even Iran etc are doing pretty good (better than India in all aspects. Yet, india is seen as "upcoming power" while Muslim World as a whole is condemned as "anti-nation state" )...You need to be better at your analysis.
 
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Turkey, Indonesia, GCC-Arab World, and even Iran etc are doing pretty good (better than India in all aspects. Yet, india is seen as "upcoming power" while Muslim World as a whole is condemned as "anti-nation state" )...You need to be better at your analysis.

India is poised to be doing better and better, so long as they stick with the state secularism. Hard data obviously show India's progress over the decades, albeit a very low basis to begin with. Think comparatively, my friend. Consider India and Pakistan.

And all those countries mentioned will be doing worse and worse if they go backwards in secular state ideology.

Turkey is what it is today because of its essential secular constitution, which is about to be changed. Iran is going to do better as it sheds the clutch of the clergy over public and national life. If not, it will not progress.

Southeast Asian countries are successful to the degree they are secular. In Malaysia, the most successful portion of the society are those who are secular.

And yes, politicized Islam is essentially anti-nation state. This is the largest menace we need to fight against; otherwise, we will risk of losing all the gains we have made so far as species being.
 
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Good to hear Turkey's progress towards Islam!

Did any body notice that Turkey's economic and technological boom was under Erdogan, a former Religious scholar?

Or a Taliban? :yahoo:
Just a correction, Erdogan is not a religious scholar. He has been politically active since he was in his 20ies. In his late teens and early twenties he played semi-professional football.
 
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Just a correction, Erdogan is not a religious scholar. He has been politically active since he was in his 20ies. In his late teens and early twenties he played semi-professional football.

I appreciate the information.

I believe he was at some stage in that field, he might have left early.

Turkey is what it is today because of its essential secular constitution, which is about to be changed. Iran is going to do better as it sheds the clutch of the clergy over public and national life. If not, it will not progress.

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No. Turkey had a secular constitution for 90 years, and it wasn't doing well. It has done well in the last ten or so years when an Islamic party took control.

Whether secular or religious makes no difference, as long as sensible economic policies are followed..

India was the worst example of a developing country. When they ditched Gandhian socialism and established growth economic policies, they did well. They were secular then, and secular now.
 
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Turkey is what it is today because of its essential secular constitution, which is about to be changed. Iran is going to do better as it sheds the clutch of the clergy over public and national life. If not, it will not progress.
This can't be further from the truth. Up till 2000 the country was mostly ruled by secular leaning parties, and in 2003 the average GDP stood around 3$K, since the ascendency of "ottomanism" AKP the GDP per capita towers 10$k.
 
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Not too long is 800 years, that's more than half the time since the start of Islam.
Hey Göt, you sure need history lesson and math:

"Who actually want the Turk to come and rule, because they think that our German people are wild and uncivilized - indeed that they are half-devil and half-man". Martin Luther, "On War Against the Turk" and our decline begins with the end times of 1700's. From 1500's to end of 1600's your people were in favor of Turkish rule.
 
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Turkey’s changes echo Islamic resurgence
By Zan Tao
Source: Global Times
Published: 2016-5-5 23:38:01

abb4ba7a-2ef4-44e4-bf13-863a5a73f2bb.jpeg


Illustration: Liu Rui/GT

Addressing an Islamic academics' meeting in Istanbul on April 25, Turkish Parliament Speaker Ismail Kahraman said Turkey, as a Muslim country, needs "a religious constitution," in which "a description of secularism" should be wiped out. Kahraman's remark ignited a public outcry, and the opposition has demanded his resignation. In international discourse, concerns about whether Turkey is being Islamized are growing.

For decades, there have been numerous discussions about whether secularism is retreating in Turkey. From the Democrat Party leader Adnan Menderes in 1950s to the die-hard Islamic fundamentalist Necmettin Erbakan in 1990s, Turkish politicians have never stopped trying to restore Islam's dominance in politics. Erbakan's ascent to the prime minister's office in 1996 greatly heightened public concern about a new wave of Islamic fundamentalism, so he was prompted to step down a year later with his Welfare Party dissolved by the worried Turkish military.

This didn't mark the end of the conflict between religion and secularism. The incumbent Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who was a member of the Welfare Party, built the AK Party with some pragmatic young Turks and obtained the top office in 2002.

The controversies and anxieties caused by Kahraman's remark are indicative of people's uncertainties about whether the ruling AK Party is willing to sustain secular. The past decade has seen Turkey's social climate growing more conservative under the rule of the AK Party. In a bid to lift the constitutional, but rarely enforced, ban on women wearing head scarves in public, the AK Party pledged to challenge the constitution but failed in 2008. But Islamic values have been given a new emphasis by Turkish leaders with intensive publicity around Islamic costumes, anniversaries and rituals. Turkey's secular forces are feeling very stressed by the change. After all, Turkey has been the most secular state in the Muslim world since it was founded by the then Mustafa Kemal Pasha, better known as Ataturk, in 1923. Turkey's secular forces regard the country's tone-changing as a step backward.

Secularism was embedded in Turkey's constitution in 1937 by the country's founding father. Religion was officially forbidden in politics, economy and education. The government had to impose a lot of restrictions on religious groups and activities, because Turkey was a traditional Muslim empire before its modernization and secularization. Islam was given a heavy blow by the government.

After a democratic Turkey was solidified in late 1940s, Islam revived. But it has never managed to get the better of secularism. The most prominent example is the fall of the Welfare Party. As a descendant of the Welfare Party, the AK Party is basically inclined to pragmatism. The ruling party has significantly improved the Turkish economy and wellbeing without challenging the red line of secularism.

Kahraman's remark caused backlash in Turkey. High-ranking AK Party members, including Erdogan himself, came out to declare their insistence on secularism, and Kahraman also clarified that this is only his personal view.

The AK Party's response to this incident and Kahraman's clarification have actually reinstated Erdogan's elaboration of secularism during his visit to Egypt in 2011. Incorporated within the AK Party's 2023 Political Vision, Erdogan's elaboration claims to aim to redefine secularism instead of discarding it. In his new theory, the focal point of secularism should be set to ensure freedom of religion to make sure all religions are fairly treated in Turkey. This deviates from the traditional approach, which highlights religious control.

Kahraman's call for abandoning secularism won't work because it is unconstitutional. But the AK Party's effort to redefine secularism stands a chance. Kamel's version of secularism is being altered by the AK Party, and the new version might be accepted as an amendment to the constitution.

Turkey's shift heralds the downfall of Western ideologies that used to be popular in the Muslim world. Islamic fundamentalism and even radical ideas are gaining the upper hand. Turkey's adjustment of its hard core secularism is a typical manifestation of the trend. The rejuvenation of Islam is becoming a fact in the Middle East, and any power that ignores it will lose its leverage.

The author is an associate professor at Peking University and an academic committee member of Pangoal Institution.
Where have you been,missed your troll threads.
The parliament speaker stated his own opinion,nothing official and no change at all.
@waz @WebMaster ,this is called trolling,i believe.
 
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Hey Göt, you sure need history lesson and math:

"Who actually want the Turk to come and rule, because they think that our German people are wild and uncivilized - indeed that they are half-devil and half-man". Martin Luther, "On War Against the Turk" and our decline begins end times of 1700's. From 1500's to end of 1600's your people were in favor of Turkish rule.


nonsense. For us italians the turks were barbarians. Thats the main reason why we fought against them and in the end pushed them out of the med and made them the "sick man".
 
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nonsense. For us italians the turks were barbarians. Thats the main reason why we fought against them and in the end pushed them out of the med and made them the "sick man".
You can't handle the truth, that's not my problem
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You can't handle the truth, that's not my problem
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The truth? That we killed your ancestors and assasinated your sultan? ;) The Italian republics were the arch enemy of the ottoman empire. We were far ahead in science, culture and art compared to you and the ottomans were seen as savages. In the end we first stopped your ancestors, then started pushing back and in end at a longer process won.

Tell me when someone in Fireze, Venezia or Rome said Ottomans are great. ;)
 
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You can't handle the truth, that's not my problem
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Bu götü boklulara cok prim vermene gerek yok abi. Götlerini temizlemeyi ögrenememis bir halktan boktan birsey bekleme.
Avrupada dogup büyüyen birisi olarak, bu iki yüzlüler sadece kendi dilinden anlar. Iyi niyetlilik bunlarin bazinda zafiyet ve kullanilmaya el verisli.

The truth? That we killed your ancestors and assasinated your sultan? ;) The Italian republics were the arch enemy of the ottoman empire. We were far ahead in science, culture and art compared to you and the ottomans were seen as savages. In the end we first stopped your ancestors, then started pushing back and in end at a longer process won.

Tell me when someone in Fireze, Venezia or Rome said Ottomans are great. ;)
Dude, what century are you talking about? From 1453 up till the end of 16th hundreds we were leading in those areas. Ottoman is an empire spanning over 600 years, so be more specific. We literally came up till Wien, and was stopped there. Had we beat your azzez in Wien, God knows entire European continent would be our province.
 
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