Turkey's ASELSAN signs $25M contract with Pakistan

[MystryMan]

Laser range finder and designator on Aselpod is claimed to have a range of 30km.

How do u compare its performance with sniper pod?

 

[war&peace]

my bet is that these Pods are for block-2 to train them for Ground Operations in FATA .. wouldn't it be better to include such pods internally in block 3 ?

Well, that would be really nice if PAF can do it. Since miniaturization is the name of the game so they have to figure out the rightly scaled components that can fit inside the JF17. However the apparent size of the pod shouldn't scare the designers/engineers because a lot of volume and space is taken by Cowling and casing.. the internal components themselves are smaller. However, installing them inside the A/C and then providing power and cooling, shielding and isolation from EM and mechanical vibrations, respectively requires a lot of careful planning and design. One way could be that PAF works with ASELSAN to design the subsystems/components specifically for BLK III or BLK IV and using miniaturization wherever possible.

Furthermore, when working with elementary systems, the designers have the luxury of placing different subsystems at different places, especially if those are not needed to be essentially co-located, and then make them communicate through fiber optics and wires. It is a kind of a distributed system utilizing each crevice and corner to make it a very compact system.

However such systems tend to become a nightmare for maintenance though PAC may still be able to do a good job since they will be the manufacturer. However, it depends on the level of miniaturization without sacrificing the performance or efficiency. If the most modern research is combined, new materials and new manufacturing processes can result in drastic reduction in the size of the subsystems and sensor fusion can also result in space saving. But that will delay BLK III and I think that won't be a good idea so may be they can do it for any subsequent blocks but those are not certain at this point in time. Another approach will be to enlarge the airframe by ~(25-30%), look for a more powerful engine and then install every system that you can get but that will also take some time. It is a pity that we are not sure about the roadmap of PAF's fleet expansion and upgradation...I'm not saying that they don't have one for sure but it is just we or I don't know that this point. So I can assume a few scenarios, PAF goes for a combination of J-31 + J20 derivative with ToT and more control over its design than JF17. So the question is; will PAF totally shift to 5th gen A/C or will keep operating 4 and 4.5 gen JF17s and F-16 along with it for the next two decades? F-16 will eventually be phased out regardless of what the bigwigs may be planning during their sojourn in Disneyland. So that leaves us with J-31 and JF17 and may be another larger 4.5 gen A/C like EFT, SU-35, J-16 etc. If they acquire a larger 4.5 gen A/C then stress on JF-17 can be reduced through proper role assignment, the quintessential element will be the data linking between the A/C through AWACs and also a direct link between A/Cs. In the case of PAF opts for JF17s and J31 only then I would suggest Blk IV with a considerable airframe change (sizing and configuration)..that may be a new A/C something called JF-18/PF-18, more in line with Rafael and Grippen E, i.e. semi-stealth with highly reduced radar cross-section and use of sensor fusion and other modern technologies but perhaps without the internal weapon bays.

Also TFX project is another option and I would suggest PAF becomes a part of it by paying even a token money of 200-500 million USD over the years and acquire the expertise and if anyone has a problem with that money should think that countries waste twice or even multiple times of this amount when they start a project on their own and one good example is Tejas LCA ( though it had a considerable foreign assistance right from the beginning).

Presumably 32 will be in total out of which two are simulators for training. I wonder when is next PAF song coming as our beloved Air Force doesn't show new gadgets unless their is an occasion.

I presume that there will be much more.. they are just buying in installments. If these produce satisfactory results then almost the whole crop of JF-17 BLK I + II may fly with them. So it may be obtained on ToT basis and produced locally. BLK III may have all these systems internally located.

 

[-------]

How do u compare its performance with sniper pod?

Sniper pod is superior to Aselpod. Higher resolution sensors, better aerodynamic shape, lower weight, more features.. Aselpod is a generation behind.. but, it was not meant to compete with Sniper pod or match it, especially as this is Turkey's first generation targeting pod. Aselpod compares favourably against Litening III pod.

Turkey is developing E/O package similar to F-35 EOTS to be integrated onto TFX, we may also see a pod variant. Aselsan as an partner in F-35 project produces parts for the F-35 EOTS.

Aselsan is developing manufacturing approaches for advanced optical components, which are part of the F-35 Electro Optical Targeting System. They are also working with Northrup Grumman on the F-35 CNI Avionic Interface Controller and will initiate full scale production activities in the near term.

http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/us/.../130508ae_turkish-industry-supports-f-35.html

 

[HAIDER]

Fast?

But 2 out of 3 isn't bad.

Yes good move. Also dead cheap to operate compared to other platforms.

Well, arming and climbing speed from short takeoff. It does not need special crew to armed . Now may be you understand .

Disagree,

The idea existed, but our issue was the main manufacturer we worked with. We were deliberately misled and in some cases held back when it came to us wanting to choose other than a particular nations equipment.

It would be exaggerating to call them hostile to the idea of other than their equipment, but they were less than the usual cooperative in that regard.

We have to stop linking the JF to a larger aircraft, and consider the actual needs for a strike fighter which the PAF lacks as such.

Have a feeling PAF priorities has changed , since war on terror. In fact PAF has unable to produce a real strike squads or any interceptors. JF17 only tested yet in WOT, hasn't participated yet in Red flag type joint drills.

 

[ali_raza]

Intersting thoughts. The choice of words withput any minceing of words would get you a few more enemies. When I asked one of our ex Navy friends about a change in direction with regards to naval platforms he was noncommital. You on the other hand have put it on the line. Thank you.
A

u r right actually i once went on a PN ship which was visiting oman on a goodwill visit.it was pns alamgir and the guy who gave me the tour turned out to be from our native area in pakistan.
he told me that we have more confidence in this 36 old ship then our new f22ps he was all praising about american stuff and how much quality differ between both countries products i don't know if situation is different now

 

[Readerdefence]

u r right actually i once went on a PN ship which was visiting oman on a goodwill visit.it was pns alamgir and the guy who gave me the tour turned out to be from our native area in pakistan.
he told me that we have more confidence in this 36 old ship then our new f22ps he was all praising about american stuff and how much quality differ between both countries products i don't know if situation is different now

Hi my thoughts are it depends how much honey you trying to pour in frankly speaking the budget
And amount you offer to Chinese to build something specific to your needs you can't complain about it
As if you check their naval strides now a days towards their ship building I hope you will agree with me 054 or 052/c&d are comparable ships to any other of their kind
Thx

 

[cabatli_53]

Photo-detector/thermal imaging technology is the area that Turkish institutes have been working since 15 years. Today, MWIR/QWIP/SWIR and NIR band detector technologies and microbolometer uncooled thermal detectors have been successfully developed. Pakistani Aselpod uses Turkish QWIP photodetector technology but 640x512 pixel resolution which is better than Litening-3 (640x480px). HD resolution photodetector technology is the one Aselsan is actively working on and It is expected to be revealed in a short time to catch the latest generation USA pod tech so We just expect good results on trials of better resolution domestic detectors...

 

[-------]

Photo-detector/thermal imaging technology is the area that Turkish institutes have been working since 15 years. Today, MWIR/QWIP/SWIR and NIR band detector technologies and microbolometer uncooled thermal detectors have been successfully developed. Pakistani Aselpod uses Turkish QWIP photodetector technology but 640x512 pixel resolution which is better than Litening-3 (640x480px). HD resolution photodetector technology is the one Aselsan is actively working on and It is expected to be revealed in a short time to catch the latest generation USA pod tech so We just expect good results on trials of better resolution domestic detectors...

Bro, one of the most disappointing things I saw on Aselsan thermal IDEF'17 sensor stand is the use of Thales coolers.. I know Aselsan is selecting off the shelf product as it is cheaper option, but we seriously need to start developing Cryogenic coolers for IR sensors..

 

[-------]

Bro, one of the most disappointing things I saw on Aselsan thermal IDEF'17 sensor stand is the use of Thales coolers.. I know Aselsan is selecting off the shelf product as it is cheaper option, but we seriously need to start developing Cryogenic coolers for IR sensors..

This is promising, Stirling cryogenic cooler developed in co-operation by Aselsan and IMTEK-Cryogenics

 

[CriticalThought]

u r right actually i once went on a PN ship which was visiting oman on a goodwill visit.it was pns alamgir and the guy who gave me the tour turned out to be from our native area in pakistan.
he told me that we have more confidence in this 36 old ship then our new f22ps he was all praising about american stuff and how much quality differ between both countries products i don't know if situation is different now

Your friend must have very low confidence in those 8 submarines we are getting as well. Or, he belongs to the creed who are mental slaves to America.

As far as I can see, the change in navy's direction is indigenization to control costs and in the future hopefully earn revenue as well. And hopefully, both China and Turkey will play the role of mentor and brother here.

Finally, the insistence on smaller size of JF-17 can come for a variety of reasons. Amongst them, the level of manufacturing capability in Pakistan at the time and the skill set of the workers.

In general, it is best to understand one's own shortcomings before printing the finger of blame on someone else.

 

[cabatli_53]

This is promising, Stirling cryogenic cooler developed in co-operation by Aselsan and IMTEK-Cryogenics

That is impressive bro. Good catch indeed. One of the other most strategic subcomponent is the solar blind image intensifiers for missile warning receivers and night vision systems. I think A few states, I believe Not more than Five institute in NATO has such critical vision subcomponent technology. Aselsan is doing really great things...

 

[cabatli_53]

Aselsan QWIP detector history

QWIP (dual band MWIR/LWIR) is a 3rd generation state of art photodetector technology that all new generation thermal imagers on helicopters, fighters and naval units have but SWIR (0.7-1,7um) photodetectors are knows with their superior performances on dusty, foggy environments. That's why spy satellites mostly host SWIR detectors.


Aselsan SWIR/NIR (Kangal)

Aselsan SWIR Images

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Let's face it. We only have one real ally/friend/dost in the Islamic World and that's Pakistan. Neither Arabs nor any other predominantly Muslim group would rush to help us like the Pakistanis would do. After Turkey shot down the Russian plane, there were already groups in Pakistan planing and debating about how quickly they can reach to Turkey in case of war.

I hope that we Turks regardless of our political party affiliation are aware of this precious bond.

We are blood brothers. Enough Said!