Turkeys Acquisition of The F-35 JSF

[SouI]

He is Pakistani and is not anti Turkiye,its just a misunderstanding.

I recall many of you accusing him of being Iranian because of his bashing posts towards legitimate improvement threads of Turkish military.

 

[Timur]

ockheed martin give us the special cnc machine to make the fuselage

ok lets say we get some CNC machines.. are we able to get more of this cnc machienes for example for other turkish companies? are we able to produce CNC machienes like that? the problem is if we can get some but we cant get more than maybe we are not able to do what you said in the future

 

[ozi2000]

F-35 Cost Per Aircraft, Including the Engine, to USD80 Million by 2019

I believe that, that is when Turkey going to order rest of her fleet with full software capability in place.

Lockheed Martin, with its two main industry partners on the project, BAE Systems and Northrop Grumman, has pledged to spend USD170 million over two years on the initiative. The Pentagon plans to spend another USD300 million on additional such efforts if Lockheed Martin and engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney succeed in bringing the cost per aircraft, including the engine, to USD80 million by 2019, Martin told reporters. The government would save some USD1.8 billion under the effort, she added.

Lockheed Martin demonstrates F-35 productivity improvements - IHS Jane's 360

 

[Oublious]

ok lets say we get some CNC machines.. are we able to get more of this cnc machienes for example for other turkish companies? are we able to produce CNC machienes like that? the problem is if we can get some but we cant get more than maybe we are not able to do what you said in the future

Why should they give us more? The problem is we don't have a airospace technology like usa and the experiences. Mayve about 10 years later when we are more experiences then now. It's not a thing you go to the college and you can make it.

 

[usernameless]

@SipahSalar 's words of caution is legit imo. When push comes to shove, the US swings its stance on matters and principles based on its interests regardless of rules, laws, democracy and freedom. To keep my off-topic post short, if Israel tomorrow decides to attack Turkey, i won't be surprised if the US provides help to them in any way they can (behind the scenes or going embargo style). Now that Turkey dares to open its mouth a bit, the US threats are becoming even more blatant and direct, just like the air defense system case.

 

[SouI]

@SipahSalar 's words of caution is legit imo. When push comes to shove, the US swings its stance on matters and principles based on its interests regardless of rules, laws, democracy and freedom. To keep my off-topic post short, if Israel tomorrow decides to attack Turkey, i won't be surprised if the US provides help to them in any way they can (behind the scenes or going embargo style). Now that Turkey dares to open its mouth a bit, the US threats are becoming even more blatant and direct, just like the air defense system case.

Do you have any depth info about the SAM project we have? Presidency said that it would 'of course' be integrated to NATO systems', where national defense minister had said it was not going to be integrated with NATO.

 

[Oublious]

They won't and let itintregate to the Nato radar networkSystems, you can look with ther systems about a distance to 1000Km. And sky high, so if ther is a threat are you going to use hq9 radas or nato?

Our engineers and politics have to understand they are right to, you are using somebody else's network so they will demand something to. But then why are the greecs using s300?

We have to cut things somewhere, maybe this is the time?

 

[SouI]

They won't and let itintregate to the Nato radar networkSystems, you can look with ther systems about a distance to 1000Km. And sky high, so if ther is a threat are you going to use hq9 radas or nato?

Our engineers and politics have to understand they are right to, you are using somebody else's network so they will demand something to. But then why are the greecs using s300?

We have to cut things somewhere, maybe this is the time?

No.

And the presidency contradicts with your statement, along with the statement of our national defense minister.

 

[Oublious]

No.

And the presidency contradicts with your statement, along with the statement of our national defense minister.

What the national defence minister is telling don't matter. The Nato have Network and they won't let the hq9 to integrate. What i mean with cute the line i mean no nato radars for hq9. Buy a nato member system and use it thats what they are telling. Or make a decision and give the money to domestiq system with Aselsan and Roketsan. We al ready lost several years with the deal. Or buy the damned system from nato member.

 

[ozi2000]

JSF/F-35 Program
First TAI Made “Center Fuselage” Leaves the Nest and Takes Flight


(Source: Turkish Aerospace Industries; issued Mar 13, 2015)
The first Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI)-made JSF/F-35 Aircraft Center Fuselage that was delivered to our customers Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin on Dec 11, 2013 has been successfully installed and tested in the final assembly line in USA and the aircraft has started its service in February 2015.

TAI's state of the art "JSF/F-35 Center Fuselage Production Facility" is the second source to the program and planned to be in production until 2030s.

In addition to "Center Fuselages", TAI is the single or one of the two sources for JSF/F-35 Program for "Metallic Sub-Assemblies, Air-to-Ground Alternate Mission Equipment Pylons, Selected Composite Components and Air Inlet Ducts".

JSF/F-35 Program First TAI Made “Center Fuselage” Leaves the Nest and Takes Flight

 

[Kamil_baku]

JSF/F-35 Program
First TAI Made “Center Fuselage” Leaves the Nest and Takes Flight


(Source: Turkish Aerospace Industries; issued Mar 13, 2015)
The first Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI)-made JSF/F-35 Aircraft Center Fuselage that was delivered to our customers Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin on Dec 11, 2013 has been successfully installed and tested in the final assembly line in USA and the aircraft has started its service in February 2015.

TAI's state of the art "JSF/F-35 Center Fuselage Production Facility" is the second source to the program and planned to be in production until 2030s.

In addition to "Center Fuselages", TAI is the single or one of the two sources for JSF/F-35 Program for "Metallic Sub-Assemblies, Air-to-Ground Alternate Mission Equipment Pylons, Selected Composite Components and Air Inlet Ducts".

JSF/F-35 Program First TAI Made “Center Fuselage” Leaves the Nest and Takes Flight

plus engine parts..ve motora bakim merkezi olacaq..

 

[xenon54 out]

plus engine parts..ve motora bakim merkezi olacaq..

Yeah but it wont be TAI but P&W factory in Izmir plus maintenance in Eskisehir no?

 

[Path-Finder]

Three F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (rear to front) — AF-2, AF-3 and AF-4 — can be seen flying over Edwards Air Force Base in this Dec. 10, 2011, in this handout photo provided by Lockheed Martin. (photo by REUTERS/Lockheed Martin/Darin Russell)

Will the F-35 change Middle East warfare?
US Vice President Joe Biden delivered a speech in Washington April 23 on the occasion of Israeli Independence Day celebrations. He announced that in 2016, the United States will deliver two F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to Israel. Yet, the debate still rages on the cost-effectiveness of the Joint Strike Fighter project, with rumors circulating that the project may be terminated due to its phenomenal $1 trillion budget.

Summary⎙ Print Once it appears in Middle Eastern skies, the F-35 fighter aircraft may alter how wars are waged in the region.
Author Metin Gurcan Posted April 29, 2015
TranslatorTimur Göksel
Biden indicated that the F-35s may be fully operational for the first time in the Middle East next year. Will the F-35 totally revamp traditional approaches to warfare in the Middle East? This question is timely because in recent years we have seen a more “militarized Middle East,” with the ongoing civil war in Syria, the expansion of the Islamic State threat to Africa and Afghanistan, clashes in Yemen, increasing sectarian divides and the Iran-Israel conflict.

Actually, it is not surprising that Israel will be the first to use F-35s in the Middle East. Israel's privilege is rooted in the US administration's strict adherence to the principle of "qualitative military edge," dating back to the term of President Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-69). According to this principle, it is a vital US interest for Israel to preserve its military deterrence at all times and maintain its supremacy in military leadership, training and tactics.

Israel's Ministry of Defense announced in February that it had signed an agreement with Lockheed Martin to purchase 14 F-35s at a cost of $100 million each. Israeli officials said their goal is to have two F-35 squadrons of 25 planes each by 2021.

Many NATO member countries and other close US allies will participate in the development of the F-35 project, which for many marks the beginning of a new era in air warfare. Only two Middle Eastern countries, Turkey and Israel, will participate.

Turkey will be the only other country in the region besides Israel to fly the F-35, and Turkey is just as involved in the project as Israel. The Turkish air force has deemed the Joint Strike Fighter program a "prestigious project" that is a "concrete step to space." Turkey plans on purchasing 100 F-35A planes in 2021 to replace its inventory of F-4E Phantom II aircraft.

The Turkish air force's avionics and weapons systems, including 54 F-4Es, were modernized to serve until 2020. These models were re-branded as the F-4E 2020 Terminator. Defense analyst Balkan Giray Coskun, speaking to Al-Monitor in Istanbul, said the F-4Es will be phased out by 2020 and replaced by F-35s, first at the Malatya air base and then at Eskisehir air base. Furthermore, the Turkish navy’s TCG Levent LPD project, an amphibious warship that can transport landing forces for expeditionary missions, will be capable of supporting the F-35Bs. This will enable Turkey to deploy F-35s from the sea.

What kind of warplane is the F-35?

Arda Mevlutoglu, a defense analyst and space engineer, spoke to Al-Monitor in Ankara, saying that the Joint Strike Fighter project seeks to meet the operational requirements of the air force, navy and marines through a single platform. This platform was designed to meet fifth-generation needs such as stealth capability, advanced avionics, high-performance engines and network-centric combat structures. The F-35 has coped with the question of commonality between air, land and naval elements by producing three versions: F-35 for the air force; F-35B to replace AV-8B Harriers for the marines; and the F-35C for the navy, which can land and take off from aircraft carriers.

Mevlutoglu said: "The F-35 is not an aircraft with just stealth technology. It is an aircraft that will perform real-time data exchanges with advanced sensors and communications, and with that feature will perform duties of command-control and intelligence that go beyond classical fighter aircraft. In short, F-35 is a multi-role warplane that will operate against the depth of the enemy lines with interdiction against well-protected targets, close air support and suppression and destruction of enemy air defenses simultaneously. With 2,400 F-35s planned [to be sold by] the US in 10 years, the plan is to have a total of more 3,000 aircraft in all countries involved in the project.”

If the cost issues are overcome, the F-35 is likely to become the main combat aircraft of NATO and other US allies. According to Mevlutoglu, this also means that all the countries flying the F-35 will possess a US-brand net-centric combat structure. As such, the F-35 project will not just boost the military capabilities of the countries using the aircraft, it will also profoundly affect their strategic military cultures as they standardize to a US-based system.

How will the F-35 affect the Middle East?

Here is an outline of the F-35’s potential influence on the Middle East security environment:

• F-35s will transform military cooperation among user countries by creating an "F-35 brotherhood." This "brotherhood" is apparent between Turkey and Israel, despite the prevailing political tensions between the two countries. Turkish pilots, headquarters and maintenance personnel are currently in Israel to ensure commonality between the Turkish and Israeli air forces in planning and operations. Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries are also willing to join the brotherhood, which could very well pave the way for a joint warfare system in the Middle East under US sponsorship.
• After 2016, F-35s will enable Israel to remain a step ahead in aerial supremacy. This naturally poses an additional security risk for Israel's regional adversaries. Given the technological supremacy of the F-35, a deterrence gap will arise that cannot be overcome with conventional military means. Israel’s adversaries could then close this gap through unconventional means like terrorism, ideologically motivated paramilitary forces and cyberattacks on critical infrastructure. Though F-35s may be deadly against nation-states, they are not as effective against a civilian equipped with an AK-47, an extreme ideology and a willingness to die.
• How will Russia and China respond to this US move in the Middle East? Russia’s Sukhoi T-50 and China’s J-20 projects, which have been presented as rivals to the F-35, are far behind schedule. There will likely be no foreign sales of Russia’s T-50 warplane before 2035.
• Coskun also noted that increasing the number of F-35s in the Middle East will diminish the US dependence on Turkey's Incirlik airbase, which has been the subject of political disputes. Coskun says this will have strategic effects on US-Turkey relations.
• Lastly, how will the flight of Israeli F-35s over Middle Eastern skies affect the emerging US-Iran rapprochement?

The emergence of F-35s in the Middle East — once the cost debate is sorted out — will alter the region's prevailing security environment. But assessing the role of the F-35 through only the lens of military capabilities could produce misleading conclusions. The F-35 will create a new military-technological discourse in the current regional conflicts — a discourse that will affect the strategic cultures of user countries, thus changing how they fight.

As high-tech weapons systems like the F-35 become operational, one question has gained more prominence in the defense realm: If technology is the answer, then what was the question?

Will the F-35 change Middle East warfare? - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

 

[C130]

buying hi-tech weapons when the potential wars are going to be against low-tech countries still operating 1960's era weapons and rebels


good for Turkey though, but I don't trust'em with out most sophisticated tech and being part of NATO...they could turncoat in a heartbeat I feel.

 

[Zarvan]

Three F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (rear to front) — AF-2, AF-3 and AF-4 — can be seen flying over Edwards Air Force Base in this Dec. 10, 2011, in this handout photo provided by Lockheed Martin. (photo by REUTERS/Lockheed Martin/Darin Russell)

Will the F-35 change Middle East warfare?
US Vice President Joe Biden delivered a speech in Washington April 23 on the occasion of Israeli Independence Day celebrations. He announced that in 2016, the United States will deliver two F-35 Joint Strike Fighters to Israel. Yet, the debate still rages on the cost-effectiveness of the Joint Strike Fighter project, with rumors circulating that the project may be terminated due to its phenomenal $1 trillion budget.

Summary⎙ Print Once it appears in Middle Eastern skies, the F-35 fighter aircraft may alter how wars are waged in the region.
Author Metin Gurcan Posted April 29, 2015
TranslatorTimur Göksel
Biden indicated that the F-35s may be fully operational for the first time in the Middle East next year. Will the F-35 totally revamp traditional approaches to warfare in the Middle East? This question is timely because in recent years we have seen a more “militarized Middle East,” with the ongoing civil war in Syria, the expansion of the Islamic State threat to Africa and Afghanistan, clashes in Yemen, increasing sectarian divides and the Iran-Israel conflict.

Actually, it is not surprising that Israel will be the first to use F-35s in the Middle East. Israel's privilege is rooted in the US administration's strict adherence to the principle of "qualitative military edge," dating back to the term of President Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-69). According to this principle, it is a vital US interest for Israel to preserve its military deterrence at all times and maintain its supremacy in military leadership, training and tactics.

Israel's Ministry of Defense announced in February that it had signed an agreement with Lockheed Martin to purchase 14 F-35s at a cost of $100 million each. Israeli officials said their goal is to have two F-35 squadrons of 25 planes each by 2021.

Many NATO member countries and other close US allies will participate in the development of the F-35 project, which for many marks the beginning of a new era in air warfare. Only two Middle Eastern countries, Turkey and Israel, will participate.

Turkey will be the only other country in the region besides Israel to fly the F-35, and Turkey is just as involved in the project as Israel. The Turkish air force has deemed the Joint Strike Fighter program a "prestigious project" that is a "concrete step to space." Turkey plans on purchasing 100 F-35A planes in 2021 to replace its inventory of F-4E Phantom II aircraft.

The Turkish air force's avionics and weapons systems, including 54 F-4Es, were modernized to serve until 2020. These models were re-branded as the F-4E 2020 Terminator. Defense analyst Balkan Giray Coskun, speaking to Al-Monitor in Istanbul, said the F-4Es will be phased out by 2020 and replaced by F-35s, first at the Malatya air base and then at Eskisehir air base. Furthermore, the Turkish navy’s TCG Levent LPD project, an amphibious warship that can transport landing forces for expeditionary missions, will be capable of supporting the F-35Bs. This will enable Turkey to deploy F-35s from the sea.

What kind of warplane is the F-35?

Arda Mevlutoglu, a defense analyst and space engineer, spoke to Al-Monitor in Ankara, saying that the Joint Strike Fighter project seeks to meet the operational requirements of the air force, navy and marines through a single platform. This platform was designed to meet fifth-generation needs such as stealth capability, advanced avionics, high-performance engines and network-centric combat structures. The F-35 has coped with the question of commonality between air, land and naval elements by producing three versions: F-35 for the air force; F-35B to replace AV-8B Harriers for the marines; and the F-35C for the navy, which can land and take off from aircraft carriers.

Mevlutoglu said: "The F-35 is not an aircraft with just stealth technology. It is an aircraft that will perform real-time data exchanges with advanced sensors and communications, and with that feature will perform duties of command-control and intelligence that go beyond classical fighter aircraft. In short, F-35 is a multi-role warplane that will operate against the depth of the enemy lines with interdiction against well-protected targets, close air support and suppression and destruction of enemy air defenses simultaneously. With 2,400 F-35s planned [to be sold by] the US in 10 years, the plan is to have a total of more 3,000 aircraft in all countries involved in the project.”

If the cost issues are overcome, the F-35 is likely to become the main combat aircraft of NATO and other US allies. According to Mevlutoglu, this also means that all the countries flying the F-35 will possess a US-brand net-centric combat structure. As such, the F-35 project will not just boost the military capabilities of the countries using the aircraft, it will also profoundly affect their strategic military cultures as they standardize to a US-based system.

How will the F-35 affect the Middle East?

Here is an outline of the F-35’s potential influence on the Middle East security environment:

• F-35s will transform military cooperation among user countries by creating an "F-35 brotherhood." This "brotherhood" is apparent between Turkey and Israel, despite the prevailing political tensions between the two countries. Turkish pilots, headquarters and maintenance personnel are currently in Israel to ensure commonality between the Turkish and Israeli air forces in planning and operations. Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries are also willing to join the brotherhood, which could very well pave the way for a joint warfare system in the Middle East under US sponsorship.
• After 2016, F-35s will enable Israel to remain a step ahead in aerial supremacy. This naturally poses an additional security risk for Israel's regional adversaries. Given the technological supremacy of the F-35, a deterrence gap will arise that cannot be overcome with conventional military means. Israel’s adversaries could then close this gap through unconventional means like terrorism, ideologically motivated paramilitary forces and cyberattacks on critical infrastructure. Though F-35s may be deadly against nation-states, they are not as effective against a civilian equipped with an AK-47, an extreme ideology and a willingness to die.
• How will Russia and China respond to this US move in the Middle East? Russia’s Sukhoi T-50 and China’s J-20 projects, which have been presented as rivals to the F-35, are far behind schedule. There will likely be no foreign sales of Russia’s T-50 warplane before 2035.
• Coskun also noted that increasing the number of F-35s in the Middle East will diminish the US dependence on Turkey's Incirlik airbase, which has been the subject of political disputes. Coskun says this will have strategic effects on US-Turkey relations.
• Lastly, how will the flight of Israeli F-35s over Middle Eastern skies affect the emerging US-Iran rapprochement?

The emergence of F-35s in the Middle East — once the cost debate is sorted out — will alter the region's prevailing security environment. But assessing the role of the F-35 through only the lens of military capabilities could produce misleading conclusions. The F-35 will create a new military-technological discourse in the current regional conflicts — a discourse that will affect the strategic cultures of user countries, thus changing how they fight.

As high-tech weapons systems like the F-35 become operational, one question has gained more prominence in the defense realm: If technology is the answer, then what was the question?

Will the F-35 change Middle East warfare? - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

Good if F-35 gets ready