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@Wholegrain, according to some Turkish members here the Magyars and the Alans are turkic peoples. What's your opinion? Also are the Xiongnu people the ancestors of turkic people beyond a doubt? And what about Huns?

Magyars are Finno-Ugric and Alans are Iranic, they were descended from the Sarmatians.

The Xiongnu is possibly Turkic or Mongolic, nobody knows because they didn't leave extensive records of their language.
 
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Would watch later. I can't really be convinced about the Magyars' being turkic. I never even heard of that. But no I don't have any strong opinion regarding this..I'm not that knowledgeable.
 
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Magyars are Finno-Ugric and Alans are Iranic, they were descended from the Sarmatians.

The Xiongnu is possibly Turkic or Mongolic, nobody knows because they didn't leave extensive records of their language.

That's what I read, but is it possible that modern day Magyars or Ossetians have significant turkic blood?
 
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Magyars are Finno-Ugric and Alans are Iranic, they were descended from the Sarmatians.

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Balkar-Karachais do call themselves Alans and Ases, all their neighbors, including Ossetes, call them Alans and Ases, and nobody calls Ossetes Alans and Ases, including the Ossetes themselves.

The graph illustrates the lexical structure of the Ossetian language verbally described on page 103 of the book, but graphically profoundly missing from the Abaev's book.
For a linguist Abaev to sample, say, 10 or 20 % of the lexicon and count the percentage of lexicon belonging to the professed Iranian, and the other Arabic, Turkic, Kartvellian, Adyg, and Nakh words was a matter of 2-3 days, out of his 40 years-long philological life. That he avoided doing it by all means is screaming about his professional candor.

Amazingly, it is universally accepted in the Indo-European scientific world that the Ossetian language, with 80% non Indo-European lexicon, 100% non Indo-European grammar and 100% non Indo-European morphology, is unquestionably an Indo-European language.

And so the Scythians, and later their linguistic kins Sarmatians, and specifically one of the Sarmatian tribes, the Alans, spoke an Iranian language akin to the uniquely opposed to the all Indo-European languages Ossetian language, which itself consists of 80% of non Indo-European lexicon. A lovely deduction, isn't it?

Abaev - Zelenchuk Inscription - TurkicWorld
@Bahoz circasians are not iranic or indo -eu people, They are kartvelian people and has nothing with Alans


Karachay-Balkar language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
карачайбалкары-сегодняшние аланхазары между прошлым и будущим
 
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No. This is not good answer . Y dna explain how their ancestors look like . But ıf presentday these people dont look like their ancestors that's mean is they were mixed with mongolid females. Still i say same thing. But still you dont understand that is your mind problem .

The genetic graphs demonstrate the spuriousness of the“Altaic” category, and its continued use in genetic research not only was failing to model an analyzable concept, but also tends to produce misleading results and superficial conclusions. Fortunately, the macro-Altaic category, heavily advocated in the past century, by now is pretty much discredited.

Graphs show what would happened after waves after waves of migrations would keep replacing their maternal mtDNA with the local mtDNA over and over again. Depending on particular circumstances would change the appearance of the migrants and the locals, their language even if not completely replaced, their traditions, and their culture. The male-driven economy, military aptitude, class structure, and social organization would be propagated.

Statistically, the vast majority of the population hold its genome and its haplogroup, that is, they marry their neighbors; offspring repeat the distribution of haplogroups of their ancestors: the dominant Y-DNA haplogroup of the fathers remains a dominant Y-DNA haplogroup of the sons, and the dominant mtDNA haplogroup of the mothers remains a dominant mtDNA haplogroup of the sons and daughters, with only daughters passing their mtDNA on.

The picture changes dramatically with replacement of the previous male population (hostile invasion). The dominant mtDNA haplogroup of the mothers remains a dominant mtDNA haplogroup of the sons and daughters, while the dominant Y-DNA haplogroup of the population is changing radically. Analysis of mtDNA does not catch such migratory changes due to the limited statistics.


@eastwatch If you want to learn turkish education sytem level. you have to compare turkey and bangladesh. Answer is there ;)

You don't seem to understand that Altaic is a proposed language family, not a race.

You keep showing Mongol and Turkic haplogroups, why don't you show the Iranic haplogroups like that of Tajiks ? Afraid that those haplogroups will match up with the Turkic ones?

We have Mongol speaking Muslims in China, the Dongxiang and Bonan. DNA tests on the Dongxiang actually show a significant portion of their paternal ancestry is Iranic, they are just Mongol speaking. They have eastern Iranic haplogroups like R1a1a while Mongols are mostly Haplogroup C.

The Dongxiang were central asian Iranic peoples who were brought to China, and Mongolized in language after they married Mongol women.

Those Turkic populations who carry Iranic Y chromosome markers were Turkified Iranic nomads. The Scythians, Sarmatians, Sakas, Massagetae and Parthians were all nomadic Iranic, caucasian peoples. After Turkic tribes defeated those Iranic peoples, it absorbed them and Turkified them.
 
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@Wholegrain

Lol thanx for eu centric view if we accept that idea then there is no Turk in the world.
 
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What I meant was that there might be people who might look like Alans or who might consider themselves Alans or who might be Alans who have been assimilated etc. but in reality they are Circassians. The various Black Sea people do not differ too much compared to the rest of Anatolian people when it comes to looks. For example, it is easy to differ a Laz from an Arab but it is difficult to differ a Laz from er Circassian. Likewise it is difficult to differ an Armenian from a Kurd.

And yes, Alans lingually be closer to other groups than Iranic groups, but since their ancestors are counted as the Scythians then that is what you have to look at. They might have been Turkified, Arabified or whatever during the course of times as they have undeniably been placed at a crossroad between Central Asian and other Asian empires and dynasties.
 
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What I meant was that there might be people who might look like Alans or who might consider themselves Alans or who might be Alans who have been assimilated etc. but in reality they are Circassians. The various Black Sea people do not differ too much compared to the rest of Anatolian people when it comes to looks. For example, it is easy to differ a Laz from an Arab but it is difficult to differ a Laz from er Circassian. Likewise it is difficult to differ an Armenian from a Kurd.

And yes, Alans lingually be closer to other groups than Iranic groups, but since their ancestors are counted as the Scythians then that is what you have to look at. They might have been Turkified, Arabified or whatever during the course of times as they have undeniably been placed at a crossroad between Central Asian and other Asian empires and dynasties.

You should have really put more effort in your new fake account. With your old account you were making the same non-sense statements you are making here. Circassians don't look like Laz. Circassian have own ancient history there. I'm partly Circassian. Alans definately are not Kurdic or Iranic. Kurdish ancestery is not known since you never had a country. There are different tribes of Kurdish people, and they grouped them and gave the name "Kurd" but one Kurd doesn't even understand another Kurd. Although you might have local blood, you don't have continous history stretching back 800 years.
 
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You should have really put more effort in your new fake account. With your old account you were making the same non-sense statements you are making here. Circassians don't look like Laz. Circassian have own ancient history there. I'm partly Circassian. Alans definately are not Kurdic or Iranic. Kurdish ancestery is not known since you never had a country. There are different tribes of Kurdish people, and they grouped them and gave the name "Kurd" but one Kurd doesn't even understand another Kurd.

Bu devirde türk olmak kadar türk kalmakda çok zor. Adamlar 5 dakkada bütün türk dünyasını irani yaptı çıktı. Yazık
 
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You should have really put more effort in your new fake account. With your old account you were making the same non-sense statements you are making here. Circassians don't look like Laz. Circassian have own ancient history there. I'm partly Circassian. Alans definately are not Kurdic or Iranic. Kurdish ancestery is not known since you never had a country. There are different tribes of Kurdish people, and they grouped them and gave the name "Kurd" but one Kurd doesn't even understand another Kurd. Although you might have local blood, you don't have continous history stretching back 800 years.

Can you read? I never said you were the same and I never said Circassians have no history. I said that Circassians and Laz look the same because they have been living together for centuries and in the same areas. It is a very natural thing. I never said Alans are Kurdic either even though there is an Alannic Kurdish tribe. But genetically they are definitely Iranic people. Everyone agrees with this.

Well, it seems you know nothing about Kurds. Kurds are the descendants of the Medians and the later empires of Carduchi and Corduene are the ancestral lands of the Kurds together with Media.

Local blood? What is that? And yes, I understand Kurds from all parts of Kurdistan. My best friend is a Kurd from South Kurdistan and he speaks the Sorani dialect of Kurdish and we can communicate entirely perfect with each other.

I bet you do not even write, read and speak Circassian?
 
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Can you read? I never said you were the same and I never said Circassians have no history. I said that Circassians and Laz look the same because they have been living together for centuries and in the same areas. It is a very natural thing. I never said Alans are Kurdic either even though there is an Alannic Kurdish tribe. But genetically they are definitely Iranic people. Everyone agrees with this.

No, Circassians and Laz don't look the same. I don't know in which country you live but I know for sure you never been in Turkey and seen both Laz and Circassian peoples. Alans are not Iranic either. Alans have own history in that region. And saying "everybody agrees with this" where do you base that on? Wikipedia? Haha, you really haven't changed your attitude since your last account. This is just "greater Iran" bullshit as usual.
Well, it seems you know nothing about Kurds. Kurds are the descendants of the Medians and the later empires of Carduchi and Corduene are the ancestral lands of the Kurds together with Media.
How can you be related to those wonderful peoples when you don't have continuous history, meaning Kurdish history connecting with previous peoples you mentioned there. There is thousand of years of gaps between Medes people and Kurds. It sounds to me you are just making up history because you don't have history. Explain to me the timeline from the first ancient Kurd to today's Kurd. (with years)

Local blood? What is that? And yes, I understand Kurds from all parts of Kurdistan. My best friend is a Kurd from South Kurdistan and he speaks the Sorani dialect of Kurdish and we can communicate entirely perfect with each other.
I talked to a Kurdish barber who I trust and he said they can't understand each other. The dialects have nothing in common. It is just mishmash language.

I bet you do not even write, read and speak Circassian?
Is that a statement or question? You first make something up and then put question mark behind it.

Bu devirde türk olmak kadar türk kalmakda çok zor. Adamlar 5 dakkada bütün türk dünyasını irani yaptı çıktı. Yazık

Ne yapisirsa artik diye dusunuyor :laughcry:
 
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No, Circassians and Laz don't look the same. I don't know in which country you live but I know for sure you never been in Turkey and seen both Laz and Circassian peoples. Alans are not Iranic either. Alans have own history in that region. And saying "everybody agrees with this" where do you base that on? Wikipedia? Haha, you really haven't changed your attitude since your last account. This is just "greater Iran" bullshit as usual.

How can you be related to those wonderful peoples when you don't have continuous history, meaning Kurdish history connecting with previous peoples you mentioned there. There is thousand of years of gaps between Medes people and Kurds. It sounds to me you are just making up history because you don't have history. Explain to me the timeline from the first ancient Kurd to today's Kurd. (with years)


I talked to a Kurdish barber who I trust and he said they can't understand each other. The dialects have nothing in common. It is just mishmash language.

Is that a statement or question? You first make something up and then put question mark behind it.



Ne yapisirsa artik diye dusunuyor :laughcry:

:laughcry: Oh God friend, I honestly can not be bothered to lecture you in Kurdish history. It is a very controversial and disputed subject. And it is also true that very little is written of the Kurdish people prior to the 9th century. because the feudal Kurdish aristocracy typically worked for other empires and dynasties ( The Ayyubids and the Rawandids are good example of this) thus easily becoming integrated. Salahaddin Eyyubi is another good example. But the time of working for other countries is over now. That is history now. Now it is time to find the roots of the Kurds and some organisations and entities are doing a great job at this.

All you need to know for now is that Kurds have their own culture, our own folklore, our own distinct and rich language and that we have inhabited the Northern Zagros for as long as empires were present in Anatolia and Iran. This is some of the places agriculture, brewery and holding cattle was first explored :)

Well the berber you trust is not a good source. I am telling you personally that I understand every Kurd I have met and you can call on your berber ( if he is a Kurd) to come here and speak to me. I will gladly prove it. But of course, not having an unified language ( due to not having an unified country) will after some time create differences in a language.

Do you or do you not read, write and talk equally good Circassian as you do with Turkish?
 
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@Bahoz . Mostly kurds dont understand each other , for example Konya region kurds dont understand haymana region kurds. I have many Kurdish friend also my home friend from haymana. One day we went to other kurdish friends home . Then one kurdish friend said that tanks to turkish language. Because we kurds dont understand each other.
 
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You skipped something.. I'm waiting for timeline from Ancient Medes to today's Kurds.....

I'm starting to think you are totally clueless about this subject. I'm sure you won't provide us timeline because there are thousands of years of a gap between the people you claim as your own.

Timeline or don't post any more. Thanks you.

@Bahoz . Mostly kurds dont understand each other , for example Konya region kurds dont understand haymana region kurds. I have many Kurdish friend also my home friend from haymana. One day we went to other kurdish friends home . Then one kurdish friend said that tanks to turkish language. Because we kurds dont understand each other.
I think he doesn't even speak Kurdish. He was not even aware of the dialects, and I also just found out he doesn't know anything about Kurdish history since I asked a timeline (with years) and he doesn't provide it. At least he admits that there were no records of Kurds before 1000 ad.
 
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@Bahoz . Mostly kurds dont understand each other , for example Konya region kurds dont understand haymana region kurds. I have many Kurdish friend also my home friend from haymana. One day we went to other kurdish friends home . Then one kurdish friend said that tanks to turkish language. Because we kurds dont understand each other.

''Mostly kurds dont understand each other'' ; From where did you conclude that? That is not true. I am a Kurd from Central Anatolia and there is a Kurd from Hakkari on these boards. We understand each other perfectly since I have written in Kurdish to him two or three times.

Again, not having an unified language does create difficulties over time. So some Kurds might not understand each other. But by genetics and by their place of origin they are still related as an ethnic group. Kurds from central Anatolia are usually from the Xalikan, Chelebi and Canbegi tribes. These tribes are originally from Gurgum ( Marash) and Dîlok ( Enteb) area. But during the Ottoman Empire they settled in central Anatolia. But their original tribe is still to be found in Gurgum and Dilok.

You skipped something.. I'm waiting for timeline from Ancient Medes to today's Kurds.....

I'm starting to think you are totally clueless about this subject. I'm sure you won't provide us timeline because there are thousands of years of a gap between the people you claim as your own.

Timeline or don't post any more. Thanks you.


I think he doesn't even speak Kurdish. He was not even aware of the dialects, and I also just found out he doesn't know anything about Kurdish history since I asked a timeline (with years) and he doesn't provide it. At least he admits that there were no records of Kurds before 1000 ad.

Listen, I know I am going to get banned if I get into a discussion with a MHP supporter like you. It is pointless. You just keep to believing Kurds have no history and then when some mature individual amongst you is ready, I am ready to provide a time line.

Also, I know every single thing there is to know about Kurdish dialects. I speak, read and write my language perfectly fine :)

Do you speak, write and read Circassian?
 
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