Turkey urges caution over blaming Iran for Saudi attack

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

The Republic of Turkey and Turkish nation.

Among many examples, let's start with this one:

• Map 1:

• Map 2:

What was/is problem with the map 1 to turn it into Map 2 for ''We'' Turks?

 

[Ansu fati]

Among many examples, let's start with this one:

• Map 1:

• Map 2:

What was/is problem with the map 1 to turn it into Map 2 for ''We'' Turks?

Relax today NSC is meeting the operation is imminent however i will try once again explain you some facts.

We want to destroy pkk but you can’t do it only in one front you must do it in all fronts there’s reason why operations claw and kiran started the iran front is frozen and as long as iran is stable that front is not worth talking
After the success of the operation inside Turkey and northern Iraq now is the time for the NE Syria if you take the statements of russia and iran they seem to be ok with 5km depth same situation with US but tell me once the operation is started by 80000 turkish soldiers +14000 syrians that’s roughly said 100000 who’s gonna stop them at 5km depth

Relax today NSC is meeting the operation is imminent however i will try once again explain you some facts.

We want to destroy pkk but you can’t do it only in one front you must do it in all fronts there’s reason why operations claw and kiran started the iran front is frozen and as long as iran is stable that front is not worth talking
After the success of the operation inside Turkey and northern Iraq now is the time for the NE Syria if you take the statements of russia and iran they seem to be ok with 5km depth same situation with US but tell me once the operation is started by 80000 turkish soldiers +14000 syrians that’s roughly said 100000 who’s gonna stop them at 5km depth

I would also add this the reaon behind the claw and kiran operations is not to allow pkk attacks on our troops during the military op in NE Syria
When turks plan comprehensive operation they never leave space for vulnerabilities to be exploited we are not stupid saudis who allow incursion in their own city(najran)

 

[mete]

Among many examples, let's start with this one:

• Map 1:

• Map 2:

What was/is problem with the map 1 to turn it into Map 2 for ''We'' Turks?

We can talk about this too but your counter argument is very interesting.

 

[Ansu fati]

We can talk about this too but your counter argument is very interesting.

There is an atack on saudi arabia; which is probably false flag operation like Japanese oil tanker incident. Turkey officially acts cautious in all ranks. Someone says it is not our problem and I say that any attack on Iran might become our biggest problem.

Your counter argument is that. Not related to the subject, not related to what I say. You can put this counter-argument on altay tank engine talks and it will be the same. No relation to the topic. Lets be open. We all know that you are bringing the point to Erdogan and I will not bite it. He is just a politician. Nothing less, nothing more. If he is useful it is a good thing, if he is harmful it is a bad thing. And I dont even care if he dies today. If his death beneficial for our country it is a good thing, if it is not beneficial it is a bad thing. Just trying to make a point, those are important matters which shall be taken seriously bu just using logic.

We do not know current plans of Turkey on Syria. At the past some very serious strategic bad moves have done and we are still suffering because of that. It this the same type of mistake? I hope not and I do not think it is. Remember the operations into Syria; which we started with Americans then in less than a week we get rid of them? At the current atmosphere it looks like we are shaping the envirement to prevent American excuses. That map you have put here does not mean anything; it is just short term colored image of a plan that is built not to work for both sides. Does not mean anything for both sides.

Do not forget that Erdoğan is just a politician. He is a charismatic leader and just that. He is just good at manipulating crowd. He was never in charge and never will. A man with lack of capacity of strategic planning is always a usable tool because he needs someone to think for himself. (And I am not even talking about his psycopathology which prevents long term planning) The important point is who is using the tool and what is built with this tool. And this is not a bad thing, this applies to most politicians throughout the human history.

edit note: I think there is a change of user of this tool a few years ago. And please next time you put some argument make them relatible with the subject.

Everything what you have written is true
People still think that Erdogan is alpha and omega in Turkey well i am sorry to disappoint you but the main actors are MIT and Turkish army

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

We can talk about this too but your counter argument is very interesting.
...

I asked who were ''We'' in dealing with ''problems''; you answered ''Turks'' and ''Turkish Republic''; therefore asked the problems of ''We Turks'' in two maps.


Now, It is clear who you actually call ''We''.

Point exposed.

 

[mete]

I do not think we need to define Turks. Plus; Turks in Syria and Irak are our people too. Just like Turks in Ukraine too. Unfortunatly we have no solid and strong policies about them. This is a different problem.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

I do not think we need to define Turks. Plus; Turks in Syria and Irak are our people too. Just like Turks in Ukraine too. Unfortunatly we have no solid and strong policies about them. This is a different problem.

...

I think I now get what you are trying to say and please lets not talk it here. Not the suitable place. Just want to say that it is going to change dramaticly in 5-10 years.

edit: When we talk about Turkish National Identity it will come to Erdoğan without doubt. You can not talk about something without involving its nemesis.

Nice to reach the point in the end.

Sad to see you go into detail at your last two posts that we both agree to refrain from, as you said it is not suitable place... so hope to delete the details in those two posts.

 

[mete]

I got it.

I will not change the tool part; which is applicable to all politicians in the world. If a person is not a strategy genius like Atatürk, Napoleon, Ghengiz Han etc. he is always a tool to be used. If that person is used by his own country that is a honorable think. Alternative is not nice anywhere in the world.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

I got it.

I will not change the tool part; which is applicable to all politicians in the world. If a person is not a strategy genius like Atatürk, Napoleon, Ghengiz Han etc. he is always a tool to be used. If that person is used by his own country that is a honorable think. Alternative is not nice anywhere in the world.

Every ''tool'' in the world is made up according to the purposes, and used by the owner(s).

You cannot use the ''tool'' that is made up or bought by others in favour of your business as long as you make up or buy your own one, otherwise you can see the ''tool'' hurts your business in favour of others while you are happy to have the ''tool'' in any kind of way and conditions.

 

[mete]

Everything what you have written is true
People still think that Erdogan is alpha and omega in Turkey

Ehem!

Every ''tool'' in the world is made up according to the purposes, and used by the owner(s).

You cannot use the ''tool'' that is made up or bought by others in favour of your business as long as you make up or buy your own one, you can see the ''tool'' hurts your business in favour of others while you are happy to have the ''tool'' in any kind of way and conditions.

This is a solid argument and I agree in perfect conditions. But at the same time I want to remind you late Ottoman Era and kaht-ı rical issue. We have a semi-broken tool, someone else is building new tools because we have taken theirs. Instead of thinking about how usable is the tool we need to remember that we have a problem of lack of tools. If we are building new tools at the moment for the days this tool is thrown to thrash then it might be OK. But if we are not doing this then we will go back 10 years, to those days... I think throwing the tool is not the most beneficial thing that can be done right now. Focusing to building new ones might be more beneficial.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Ehem!

This is a solid argument and I agree in perfect conditions. But at the same time I want to remind you late Ottoman Era and kaht-ı rical issue. We have a semi-broken tool, someone else is building new tools because we have taken theirs. Instead of thinking about how usable is the tool we need to remember that we have a problem of lack of tools. If we are building new tools at the moment for the days this tool is thrown to thrash then it might be OK. But if we are not doing this then we will go back 10 years, to those days... I think throwing the tool is not the most beneficial thing that can be done right now. Focusing to building new ones might be more beneficial.

You still insist on using the ''tool'' that is literally made up by others for the sake of the same others' businesses and therefore used in hurting our businesses as seen in many examples including the last one we reached the agreement in a few minutes ago.

In a short look at the current Muslim-dominated geography, you will see similar tools and therefore similar conditions in the geogprahy, you think this is an ugly coincidence?

If not, then why to insist on using the same ''tool'' instead of creating our own tool for our own businesses despite the identical parallelism you made between today and Ottoman era?

 

[mete]

You still insist on using the ''tool'' that is literally made up by others for the sake of the same others' businesses and therefore used in hurting our businesses as seen in many examples including the last one we reached the agreement in a few minutes ago.

In a short look at the current Muslim-dominated geography, you will see similar tools and therefore similar conditions in the geogprahy, you think this is an ugly coincidence?

If not, then why to insist on using the same ''tool'' instead of creating our own tool for our own businesses despite the identical parallelism you made between today and Ottoman era?

As I said; you are totally right. And I agree on building your own tools, this is a must be. But that does not happen instantly. At the same time this tool will not work for a long time and it is already not suitable for the job. You can use an axe's back side to hit nails but it will not do the job correctly, deform some nails, and there is a workplace hazard for using the axe's back as a hammer. But if you only have an axe, if you have 4 nails to hit along hundreds of them you just hit those 4 nails and then go to find a hammer. (As all analogies are, this analogy is wrong and incomplete too) The alternative is hitting those 4 nails with your bare hands and then finding a hammer or staying idle. Because there will be no hammers for a time.

The problem is someone else is building tools we have taken from them to chop trees, process wood, build a coffin and put some nails on our coffin. (Nails in this analogy have nothing to do with the first analogy)

I think current muslim world, especially arab spring is directly connected with creation of party.(we know the name) If you go back and rethink on especially between 2000-2008 in our country and the area around us it is very clear now. We can even connect there to collapse of Soviet Unioun, lack of enemies and need of enemies, rise of today's Russia and China, Brzezinski's forecast of the need of a belt between Europe and Asia(From Turkey to Poland). You can connect this to Europe's energy need and only near source as Russia. Then med. sea natural gas; its domination and domination of EU energy source. So; using energy that EU needs domiates EU, W-asia/E-Europe belt disconnects asia from Europe and gives control of asian trade routes to market into hands of offence and controls Asia's production.(no sale no production. But since China increased demand inside this has weakened) With controlled chaos in ME makes it easily manipulated and controlled. Chaos in states around east med. sea gives advantage to western energy companies and control of energy extraction and sales. A controlled and weakened Egypt in chaos ensures the control of biggest nat. gas reserves and control of one of two entrances of med. sea and its trade routes. A chaotic Yemen is another key element here.(But I think it did not work as intended) A puppet Kurdistan will errode Turkey-Iran-Syria-Iraq and make one of the hottest jeostrategic centers paralised and in constant chaos with a huge base of influence. List goes on... Considering these variables I think the party and its aim in the Middle East Project could be understood. But most of the tools in the party are inactive and they are getting ready again.

Global hegemony is changing. The power of production is changing. USA is losing blood since 70s drop by drop, global economy is having extreme troubles of stabilization since 90s. These changes, especially changes of hegemony does not happen without a huge war. And again, considering the variables I have given we can see where it is happening. I think it will not stop there. It will be another bad century for Europe.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

As I said; you are totally right. And I agree on building your own tools, this is a must be. But that does not happen instantly. At the same time this tool will not work for a long time and it is already not suitable for the job. You can use an axe's back side to hit nails but it will not do the job correctly, deform some nails, and there is a workplace hazard for using the axe's back as a hammer. But if you only have an axe, if you have 4 nails to hit along hundreds of them you just hit those 4 nails and then go to find a hammer. (As all analogies are, this analogy is wrong and incomplete too) The alternative is hitting those 4 nails with your bare hands and then finding a hammer or staying idle. Because there will be no hammers for a time.

The problem is someone else is building tools we have taken from them to chop trees, process wood, build a coffin and put some nails on our coffin. (Nails in this analogy have nothing to do with the first analogy)

I think current muslim world, especially arab spring is directly connected with creation of party.(we know the name) If you go back and rethink on especially between 2000-2008 in our country and the area around us it is very clear now. We can even connect there to collapse of Soviet Unioun, lack of enemies and need of enemies, rise of today's Russia and China, Brzezinski's forecast of the need of a belt between Europe and Asia(From Turkey to Poland). You can connect this to Europe's energy need and only near source as Russia. Then med. sea natural gas; its domination and domination of EU energy source. So; using energy that EU needs domiates EU, W-asia/E-Europe belt disconnects asia from Europe and gives control of asian trade routes to market into hands of offence and controls Asia's production.(no sale no production. But since China increased demand inside this has weakened) With controlled chaos in ME makes it easily manipulated and controlled. Chaos in states around east med. sea gives advantage to western energy companies and control of energy extraction and sales. A controlled and weakened Egypt in chaos ensures the control of biggest nat. gas reserves and control of one of two entrances of med. sea and its trade routes. A chaotic Yemen is another key element here.(But I think it did not work as intended) A puppet Kurdistan will errode Turkey-Iran-Syria-Iraq and make one of the hottest jeostrategic centers paralised and in constant chaos with a huge base of influence. List goes on... Considering these variables I think the party and its aim in the Middle East Project could be understood. But most of the tools in the party are inactive and they are getting ready again.

Global hegemony is changing. The power of production is changing. USA is losing blood since 70s drop by drop, global economy is having extreme troubles of stabilization since 90s. These changes, especially changes of hegemony does not happen without a huge war. And again, considering the variables I have given we can see where it is happening. I think it will not stop there. It will be another bad century for Europe.

Will you please keep it short to the point?... thanks in advance.

You agree The tool is created by others in favour of their businesses, the same tool still hurts our businesses for the sake of the tool owners; but still, when i ask to create our own, you say why not to use the current tool to fix its damages and build our current/next businesses due to no alternative in 80 million(300 million); seriously?

The world order has not changed yet, because they have the superiorty thanks to education, culture etc. and the ''tools'' used in the world for the sake of their businesses unless a war which is going to happen is lost; how to claim the others' tool will secure your own businesses while the recent facts created by the same ''tool'' have repeatedly proved otherwise?

 

[mete]

Will you please keep it short to the point?... thanks in advance.

You agree The tool is created by others in favour of their businesses, the same tool still hurts our businesses for the sake of the tool owners; but still, when i ask to create our own, you say why not to use the current tool to fix its damages and build our current/next businesses due to no alternative in 80 million(300 million); seriously?

The world order has not changed yet, because they have the superiorty thanks to education, culture etc. and the ''tools'' used in the world for the sake of their businesses unless a war which is going to happen is lost; how to claim the others' tool will secure your own businesses while the recent facts created by the same ''tool'' have repeatedly proved otherwise?

Sorry for that. I was just saying that this one's party exactly fits for purpose of US's middle east project.

I agree that tool does not work perfect and it is hazardous. But the hand uses it is not someone else. Nearly all other tool options are ready to be used by someone else. We have this one now, and alternatives are not good. The good alternatives do not have social support or do not have the required political organisation. We are at urgent need of a new tool. Not those tools organised at exeter when they were there for their phds or the tools that are full of terrorist backers. None of the tools present is in good shape or working as wished. Changing this one at this exact time might stall us more than this broken one.

Eventually we will need some decent tools without infected organisation like all major political organisations today. I think we can agree that we will need to create something works whitin our own country and only by dynamics of our own nation.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

Sorry for that. I was just saying that this one's party exactly fits for purpose of US's middle east project.

I agree that tool does not work perfect and it is hazardous. But the hand uses it is not someone else. Nearly all other tool options are ready to be used by someone else. We have this one now, and alternatives are not good. The good alternatives do not have social support or do not have the required political organisation. We are at urgent need of a new tool. Not those tools organised at exeter when they were there for their phds or the tools that are full of terrorist backers. None of the tools present is in good shape or working as wished. Changing this one at this exact time might stall us more than this broken one.

Eventually we will need some decent tools without infected organisation like all major political organisations today.

We are actually turning around the same circle again and again.

Who says ''alternatives are not good'' and based on what s/he says it?