Turkey shows interest in JF-17 Thunder

[Nav]

Jigs bro , my question is what can turkey add to Thunder ? To make it a high end fighter.

 

[Dazzler]

The F-4 would not be replaced especially the Terminators they provide a better deep strike role then the thunder. Those would be replaced with the F-35. We could buy thunders in a air defense role. Since currently confirmed orders for our Air Force would be 246 F-16 (Majority CCIP and possible option for the whole fleet) by 2011(Stop Gap for F-35) and 116-120 F-35s.(2016-17) Now if turkey decides to also induct the EFT then the thunder would probably fall more out of view. We have to keep ahead of Greece and generally most other countries around our area.

Without digging deep into details, Turkey showed interest in JFT and this is a fact. Now, for what reason they seem interested, i do no know yet. In terms of range, JFT might fall a little short but ferry range of 3000 km means it can cover any area in Greece which is by no means a huge territory. Capability wise i can tell you with assurance that JFT IS leaps and bounds better than F4s and F5s even after Terminator upgrade. They are NOT offering any avionics or upgrades because in its current form, JFT is on par with Turkish blk 40s and at half the price, it has attracted many countries including Turkey. Its Radar has both air to air and air to ground modes are pretty much comprehensive as they support CCIP modes coupled with SAR and ISAR modes (only blk 52s have the latter).

Regards...

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Without digging deep into details, Turkey showed interest in JFT and this is a fact. Now, for what reason they seem interested, i do no know yet. In terms of range, JFT might fall a little short but ferry range of 3000 km means it can cover any area in Greece which is by no means a huge territory. Capability wise i can tell you with assurance that JFT IS leaps and bounds better than F4s and F5s even after Terminator upgrade. They are NOT offering any avionics or upgrades because in its current form, JFT is on par with Turkish blk 40s and at half the price, it has attracted many countries including Turkey. Its Radar has both air to air and air to ground modes are pretty much comprehensive as they support CCIP modes coupled with SAR and ISAR modes (only blk 52s have the latter).

Regards...

Just thinking out of national pride.
JFT at the moment is a basic variant where as TuAF Terminator F-4 is at its full potential. Ofcourse JFT to its full potential will be far supirior to any F-4s but at the moment F-4 carrys better or as good as sensors and systems on JFT.
JFT has alot of things to catch up to be capable as block 40 but this could be eaisly achieved with french package that was offered.

Turkey can accquire these JFTs and upgrade them with their systems and sell it to other customers such as azerbijan.

I would love to have turkey jump in this jft project and help pak improve this project even further.

 

[Jigs]

Without digging deep into details, Turkey showed interest in JFT and this is a fact. Now, for what reason they seem interested, i do no know yet. In terms of range, JFT might fall a little short but ferry range of 3000 km means it can cover any area in Greece which is by no means a huge territory. Capability wise i can tell you with assurance that JFT IS leaps and bounds better than F4s and F5s even after Terminator upgrade. They are NOT offering any avionics or upgrades because in its current form, JFT is on par with Turkish blk 40s and at half the price, it has attracted many countries including Turkey. Its Radar has both air to air and air to ground modes are pretty much comprehensive as they support CCIP modes coupled with SAR and ISAR modes (only blk 52s have the latter).

Regards...

I respect your analysis/input but for a A/G Role like what terminator is assigned to the current JFT is not better(If you would like to get into details about the two we can). The other issue is Turkey is not on a small budget. We have already set up the means to replace our older aircraft. If the JFT can't match our F-16 CCIP aircraft (Remember they are block 50+/advanced aircraft with AIM-9X integration) and F-35s then what else would be the need for it ? Remember the EFT deal is also floating out there and many sources suggest the EFT after the initial F-35 order in complete. Maybe even earlier.

 

[Jigs]

Just thinking out of national pride.
JFT at the moment is a basic variant where as TuAF Terminator F-4 is at its full potential. Ofcourse JFT to its full potential will be far supirior to any F-4s but at the moment F-4 carrys better or as good as sensors and systems on JFT.
JFT has alot of things to catch up to be capable as block 40 but this could be eaisly achieved with french package that was offered.

Turkey can accquire these JFTs and upgrade them with their systems and sell it to other customers such as azerbijan.

I would love to have turkey jump in this jft project and help pak improve this project even further.

This would be the most possible.

 

[Babur Han]

Jigs bro , my question is what can turkey add to Thunder ? To make it a high end fighter.

Turkey can add indigenous Mission Computer, Self Protection Suites, targeting Pods, MFD and Link-16 Datalink Modem for example. Indigenous developedStand - Off Weapons and PGM can be also adde't, for example:

- HGSS(INS/GPS guidet Bombs)
- HGSS-ER with Wings
- Advanced A2G based on UMTAS(in near Future)
- SAGE/TUBITAK LGB
- Demet Cluster Bombs
- Longshot Stand - Off Missile(similar to SLAM-ER)
- Advanced WVR and BVR Missiles(probably at the end of this Decade)

 

[Dazzler]

Growler,

I try to base my comments on facts instead of nationalism so please do not make assumptions in this regard. Read the specs of f-16 blk 40 and then that of JFT and tell me a single area where JFT lacks behind the former except range and thrust??

F-16 block 40 specs...

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article7.html

Pakistan Aeronautical Complex....

It all started when his excellency Turkish premier gained interest in JFT....

 

[Reaper What You Sow]

Aside from the low budget ones, I think some nations gain interest in the fighter to give Pakistan a hand. Turkey builds F-16 for Christ's sake.

 

[gogbot]

Growler,

I try to base my comments on facts instead of nationalism so please do not make assumptions in this regard. Read the specs of f-16 blk 40 and then that of JFT and tell me a single area where JFT lacks behind the former except range and thrust??

Thrust is a very important factor.

But on top of that you have to consider

*payload.
*Radar
* Serviceability
* Avionics and EW suit
*weapons

Even though the Avionics was open source good for export, It seems to have not met PAF requirements.

Engine and Radar need an Upgrade

I do not know about EW suits.

Weapon integration is key as it determines the Arsenal and future munitions suppliers

 

[Dazzler]

Thrust is a very important factor.

Agreed !


But on top of that you have to consider

*payload.
*Radar
* Serviceability
* Avionics and EW suit
*weapons

Agreed..

Even though the Avionics was open source good for export, It seems to have not met PAF requirements.

If it did not then why PAF went for this package when Italians also offered their one? Reason is simple, cost effective and can be manufactured and modified at will with no strings attached. Our own package is also being integrated now and will be on the second batch onwards.

Engine and Radar need an Upgrade

Engine, yes. Radar, NO as it fulfills what it was made for. All the talk of a western package is for a specialized attack version of 100 fighters.


I do not know about EW suits.

After what i witnessed and heard, it is definitely more capable than venerable blk 40 even at this stage. CFD, MAWS, SPJ, IJ etc...

Weapon integration is key as it determines the Arsenal and future munitions suppliers

Agreed and we also have our indigenous weapons to offer like RAAD etc..

 

[manojb]

I see this going hongdu jl8 way. Myanmar is already out !

 

[Dazzler]

Turkey can add indigenous Mission Computer, Self Protection Suites, targeting Pods, MFD and Link-16 Datalink Modem for example. Indigenous developedStand - Off Weapons and PGM can be also adde't, for example:

We have already developed our MMC based on 32 bit architecture and is twice as powerful as the current JFT computer which is equivalent to any fourth gen mission computer in the world. EW suite is better than that of blk 40s as i discussed that it possess MAWS and both internal jammer, ecm in the tail housing and external mounted jammer. PGMs already inducted from China that includes LS-6, GB-1, LT-2 etc.. All are modern satellite and laser guided munitions.

HGSS(INS/GPS guidet Bombs)

Same as above....

HGSS-ER with Wings

Same as above...

-Advanced A2G based on UMTAS(in near Future)

Already in development in Pakistan


- SAGE/TUBITAK LGB

We make GBU 10-12 in house so that is enough

- Demet Cluster Bombs

We make our own for at least 20 years

- Longshot Stand - Off Missile(similar to SLAM-ER)

Raptor and Mupsow will do the job for us

Advanced WVR and BVR Missiles(probably at the end of this Decade)

A-Darter and Piranha 2 along with T-darter and sd-10 A...

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I am more interested Turkish encryption and electronics and radars that will control communication in our fighters it would be a great addition to have that option -

 

[Quwa]

nabil_05

Turkey and Pakistan signed a MoU of jointly developing & producing precision guided munitions, and with particular mention to precision-bomblets for next-gen cluster bombs. Turkey's HGK JDAM are similar in concept to U.S. JDAM in that they're guidance kits for dumb bombs in the 2000lb and 500lb range. This would be highly beneficial to PAF as kits of this weight are thus far only coming from U.S. Supplementing this with the upcoming Umbani precision-guidance kit for 250lb bombs would also be a good idea. Nonetheless I truly believe that there is cooperation in this area between Turkey and Pakistan.

As for stand-off weapons, Pakistan has the H2/H4 series of glide-bombs as well as the Ra'ad ALCM. However, we should have a more tactical ALCM similar to Storm Shadow, and again, working with Turkey is an excellent idea in this regard. They already have a stand-off missile program (link). These are excellent initiatives, and all comparable avenues - i.e. Turkey, South Africa and Brazil - should be pursued.

 

[Dazzler]

Faisal,

I am aware of joint collaboration between Pakistan and Turkey but I just answered queries made in terms of JFT's capabilities. People seem to be in a frame of mind that it is still inferior to most options because its price tag is 15-20 mil.