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Turkey Seek Indigenous Engine Technology

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Turks Seek Indigenous Engine Technology
By Burak Ege Bekdil 3:09 p.m. EDT April 18, 2015

Turkish company TUMOSAN will design a new engine for the Altay tank, developed for Turkey by local company Otokar.(Photo: Otokar)
635627944016542808-altay-01.jpg


ANKARA — Most Turkish programs in recent years have gone with the priority tag of "indigenous."

Yet all of the indigenous programs, whether naval, ground or air, lacked an indigenous engine. Turkey is now trying to earn the technology to build one.

"Locally developed engines inevitably will be an important part of Turkish procurement strategy in the years ahead," one senior procurement official said. "The idea is to buy know-how [from foreign firms] and localize it over the course of time. We aim at 100 percent Turkish engines for future platforms of all sorts."

Another procurement official specializing in engine programs said a recent study found that Turkey could earn fully indigenous engine technology in the next five to 10 years if it fully implements a proposed roadmap.

"Perhaps we should have launched this effort years ago. Better late than never," the official said. "Each day without a solid national engine program would expose indigenous platform programs to the risk of further delays."

Parallel efforts by one state-controlled and two privately owned companies to build indigenous engines are underway.

Tusas Turkish Engine Industries (TEI), a government-controlled engine maker, has devised a 20-year roadmap for the design, development and manufacture of a local aircraft engine, company officials said. TEI hopes its indigenous engine will power the TF-X, the indigenous Turkish fighter jet to be developed.

In March, TUMOSAN, a privately owned Turkish engine maker, signed a €190 million (US $203 million) contract with the government to design and develop an indigenous engine for the Altay, a new-generation tank the country has been developing.

TUMOSAN's Power Group Development program signed the contract with the country's procurement office, the Undersecretariat for Defense Industries (SSM). In August, Turkey's top procurement panel, the Defense Industry Executive Committee, tasked SSM with opening contract negotiations with TUMOSAN.

The program involves the indigenous design, development, prototype production, testing and qualification of an engine for the Altay.

Under the plan, TUMOSAN also will design and develop a transmission for the Turkish tank and produce critical parts for its engine, including the diesel pump, electronic control unit and injector.

TUMOSAN said it aims to conclude the program within 54 months and "with maximum possible local content." It said it will obtain foreign know-how when necessary. TUMOSAN hopes that it will also develop variants of the planned engine for other land and naval platforms.

TUMOSAN, founded in 1975, is a diesel engine and tractor manufacturer. It produces 75,000 diesel engines annually.

The deal came as Turkey's procurement authorities were preparing to launch a multibillion-dollar competition for 1,000 Altays. The race for the serial production will involve an initial batch of 250 tanks to be followed by three orders, each comprising 250 more tanks.

"This [program] will end Turkey's dependency on engines for military vehicles," said Kurtulus Ogun, TUMOSAN's general manager.

Ending dependency on imported engines for locally built platforms is the emerging Turkish ambition.

Kale, a privately owned Turkish defense company, has said it completed the design phase of an engine it is developing for the SOM turbo-jet cruise missiles. Kale has pledged to deliver the first engine for the SOM in April 2016.

"Turkey imports each SOM engine at $150,000 to $200,000," Kale's chief technician Osman Okyay said. "Our program will end engine imports for the SOM. We will then start exporting the engine."

SOM is a next-generation high-precision cruise missile that can be launched from land, sea and air platforms. It was developed by TUBITAK SAGE, a state-run defense research and development institute. SOM was showcased in 2011 after five years of development work. It has a range of 180 to 200 kilometers.

Okyay said that upon President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's orders, Kale will develop an engine for SOM with a range of up to 1,000 kilometers. Kale's work will make the basis for the indigenous engine Turkey hopes to develop for the TF-X.

Kale is engine-maker Pratt & Whitney's Turkish partner. Last June, the two companies inaugurated a $75 million plant in Turkey for the production of critical engine parts for the F-35. Pratt & Whitney has a 51 percent share in the joint venture while the Turkish company holds the remaining 49 percent.
 
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Slowly but surely we are realizing our dreams...
 
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If turkey develops its own engines, it's market will open up to shady sanction prone customers like Pakistan :p:, but it seems the program is in it for the long haul, as 10 to 20 years is a long time.
 
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If turkey develops its own engines, it's market will open up to shady sanction prone customers like Pakistan :p:, but it seems the program is in it for the long haul, as 10 to 20 years is a long time.

20 Years is actually for the TurboFan Aircraft engine. (Which i don't believe we are gonna produce one). Other ones like Tank engine, or Turboshaft Helicopter engine will be produced way before it.
 
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20 Years is actually for the TurboFan Aircraft engine. (Which i don't believe we are gonna produce one). Other ones like Tank engine, or Turboshaft Helicopter engine will be produced way before it.

Shame on you. We will surely make turbofans. They may not be the cutting edge but they will be capable all the same.
 
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Shame on you. We will surely make turbofans. They may not be the cutting edge but they will be capable all the same.
I don't wanna argue with you on this one. You can believe that Turkey can build a spaceship and travel across galaxies but reality differs from fantasy.

Can Turkey build a a TurboFan engine which can power a jet fighter in 20 years ? Yes, it can. But to do so. We have to build necessary background and infrastructure and invest 10s of Billions $ in this project.

As far as i see, we are concerned with building Cruise missile engines and a Turbo-Shaft Engine that will power Helicopters. As far the Turbo-Fan project, no. I have not seen any preparations for it.

So, claiming that Turkey would build a TurboFan engine is just a wishful thinking as for now.
 
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I don't wanna argue with you on this one. You can believe that Turkey can build a spaceship and travel across galaxies but reality differs from fantasy.

Can Turkey build a a TurboFan engine which can power a jet fighter in 20 years ? Yes, it can. But to do so. We have to build necessary background and infrastructure and invest 10s of Billions $ in this project.

As far as i see, we are concerned with building Cruise missile engines and a Turbo-Shaft Engine that will power Helicopters. As far the Turbo-Fan project, no. I have not seen any preparations for it.

So, claiming that Turkey would build a TurboFan engine is just a wishful thinking as for now.

Wait, Turbofans do not not power fighter jets. Those are jet engines which are different.
 
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Pratt & Whitney F135 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pratt & Whitney F119 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Eurojet EJ200 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All of the modern era Aircraft uses Turbofan engines...

Jet Engines goes like this;

- Turbojet
- TurboFan
- Turboprop
- Turboshaft
- RamJet

That's crazy. From what I know know, turbofan uses fans to generate thrust. How can turbofans create THAT much thrust that it can power a jet?

Also, isn't Turkey producing small turbofan engines for its cruise missiles?
 
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That's crazy. From what I know know, turbofan uses fans to generate thrust. How can turbofans create THAT much thrust that it can power a jet?
Mate, it's not like that at all. :)

You gotta read this. Turbofan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, isn't Turkey producing small turbofan engines for its cruise missiles?
KaleAero is developing a 3.2kn TurboJet to power SOM missile. But it not yet in the production phase.

There are plans for developing a TurboFan to power cruise missiles but that's all i know about the project.
 
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KaleAero is developing a 3.2kn TurboJet to power SOM missile. But it not yet in the production phase.

There are plans for developing a TurboFan to power cruise missiles but that's all i know about the project.

Turbojet engine will not give SOM any significant range, especially 1000km to 2500km mark with sir Erdogan "ordered" (as even this article says)..

Long range cruise missiles have turbofan engines...
 
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That's crazy. From what I know know, turbofan uses fans to generate thrust. How can turbofans create THAT much thrust that it can power a jet?

Also, isn't Turkey producing small turbofan engines for its cruise missiles?

There are two categories of turbofans. The airline types are "high bypass" turbofans which means the engine accelerates a lot of pure air and uses only a fraction of the air for combustion. Usually 80% of the thrust comes from the acceleration of this cold air. The fighter jet types are low bypass turbofans which means between 30% and 50% (usually) of the trust comes from cold air acceleration. You can make turbofan enginess but you can't guaranty that it will be a competitively effcient one. The latest high bypass engines are highly optimized and reflect the knowhow of many decades, so are the low bypass ones. .
 
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Turbojet engine will not give SOM any significant range, especially 1000km to 2500km mark with sir Erdogan "ordered" (as even this article says)..

Long range cruise missiles have turbofan engines...

Most true. :agree:
 
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I don't wanna argue with you on this one. You can believe that Turkey can build a spaceship and travel across galaxies but reality differs from fantasy.

Can Turkey build a a TurboFan engine which can power a jet fighter in 20 years ? Yes, it can. But to do so. We have to build necessary background and infrastructure and invest 10s of Billions $ in this project.

As far as i see, we are concerned with building Cruise missile engines and a Turbo-Shaft Engine that will power Helicopters. As far the Turbo-Fan project, no. I have not seen any preparations for it.

So, claiming that Turkey would build a TurboFan engine is just a wishful thinking as for now.

You may not respect Burak Bekdil much but in his latest article linked to here he says TAI wants to make the engine to power the TFX. There is no need to argue dude, just don't underestimate the Turks.
 
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here are two categories of turbofans. The airline types are "high bypass" turbofans which means the engine accelerates a lot of pure air and uses only a fraction of the air for combustion. Usually 80% of the thrust comes from the acceleration of this cold air. The fighter jet types are low bypass turbofans which means between 30% and 50% (usually) of the trust comes from cold air acceleration. You can make turbofan enginess but you can't guaranty that it will be a competitively effcient one. The latest high bypass one enngines are highly optimized and reflect the knowhow of many decades, so are the low bypass ones. .

"High bypass" turbo fans used on airliners.

"Low bypass" turbofans are used on fighter aircrafts.

You may not respect Burak Bekdil much but in his latest article linked to here he says TAI wants to make the engine to power the TFX. There is no need to argue dude, just don't underestimate the Turks.
I'm not following this issue only from Burak Bekdil.

I know TEI ultimately wants create an engine that will power TFX.... but do they work towards that goal... ? Answer is No.

Like i said before. TEI has to enhance it's abilities greatly...Do TEI;

- able to create single crystal fan blades ?
- Do they have TBC abilities ?
- Do they have super-elastic forming capabilities for fan blades ?
- Do they have desing capalities for such a project ?

List goes on like this.....if they are serious about this engine...you know our saying "Talk less Work more"

Mate, it's not about underestimating Turks. There are some projects in the world that they are hardest of all to achive.
Which requires massive amount of money, experience, time, brain power.

These are;
- TurboFan Engine capable of powering a Aircraft
- Cryogenic Rocket Engine
- Nuclear Detonation Device

 
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