Turkey’s last offer to Israel: Three options on table

[jha]

Let the govts. change in both states and hardliners go...everything will be back to normal..

 

[cabatli_53]

Back door channels will work out some solution..Both need each other...

Actually, We do not need Israel but Israel without Turkey can not live in ME. Time will prove this...

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

Turkey nai alloo rakh dia!

 

[T-Rex]

Actually, We do not need Israel but Israel without Turkey can not live in ME. Time will prove this...

Israelis are thinking that Turkey is nothing without the US, so this way or that way it has to give in to the US pressure. Whether Turkey is ready to risk hurting its relation with the US is a big question. It may if it thinks that it can survive without the US support.

 

[limp]

Israelis can be damned stubborn and i don't see any apology coming from them.
Back door negotiations will have to work something out.
Perhaps a joint enquiry into the incident followed by CBM's.

 

[Awesome]

Turkey should put only 2 options on the table.

Allow international aid to Palestine

Or Give up ties with Turkey.

Things are way past the Apology/Inquiry stage.

Israel would either apologize or allow an independent inquiry and call it a day. How does that help the Palestinian people for whom this whole thing got started for. Israel must now allow humanitarian aid to go to Palestine. It's like a hostage situation, before further negotiation, Israel must release some hostages.

 

[bc040400065]

Israel has more to lose in case of Turkey break: analysts


Tue, Jul 06, 2010
AFP


By Jean-Luc Renaudie

JERUSALEM, July 6, 2010 (AFP) - Israel would be the big loser in case of a break in relations with former strategic ally Turkey because of its refusal to apologise to Ankara for a deadly naval raid, analysts warn.

"In this tug of war, Israel has more to lose than Turkey," said Ofra Bengio, an Israeli university professor and author of the book "The Turkish-Israeli Relationship: Changing Ties of Middle Eastern Outsiders."

Turkey is a member of NATO and has close links with Muslim countries. It can give us up easily. We are a small, isolated country in this region," she said.

The two countries have been at loggerheads ever since Israeli commandos on May 31 raided a Turkish-owned ferry with hundreds of activists on board aiming to break the blockade of Gaza, killing nine Turks.

Turkey has repeatedly demanded a formal Israeli apology, compensation and an international investigation into the operation.

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, in comments published on Monday by Hurriyet newspaper, warned that relations could be broken, but Israel said it would not apologise for defending its security.

Turkey has already closed its airspace to all Israeli military flights in reaction to the raid, Davutoglu said, adding that it could be extended to civilian flights.

A key feature of Turkish-Israeli relations has been the military cooperation agreement they signed in 1996, to the fury of Arab and Muslim countries.

Under the deal, Israeli military industries won numerous contracts to sell weapons to the Turkish armed forces such as M60 tanks and upgrade their current arsenal, including F-4 and F-5 fighter jets.

The two countries have carried out joint military exercises and Israeli troops have been allowed to train on Turkish territory.

"Turkey is the only Muslim country with which we had strategic military ties - even if Ankara would never have allowed Israeli warplanes to use its air space to attack Iranian nuclear sites," said Bengio.

But Amir Rapapport, a military analyst at Israel's Begin Sadat Centre for Strategic Studies, said the biggest loss would be the joint drills which "allowed the Israeli air force to practice for long-distance attacks."

"Israel using Turkish airspace had a deterrent effect on Iran, Iraq and Syria. Now that is lost," agreed Efraim Inbar, a political analyst from Bar Ilan University.

"The loss of Turkey is a serious strategic loss. Turkey is a very important country with huge influence in the Middle East," said Inbar.
Ankara recalled its ambassador immediately after the raid, scrapped plans for three joint military exercises and said economic and defence links would be reduced to a "minimum level."

Zvi Elpeleg, a former Israeli ambassador to Turkey, believes his country "is paying for Europe's refusal to allow Turkey to join the EU."

"For a long time the Turks believed that Israel was a conduit to influence Brussels. But now they don't believe this any more," he said.

A senior Israeli official, who declined to be named, agreed.

"Unfortunately Turkey is changing course and is trying to renew old dreams of a return to the Ottoman empire - all at the expense of Israel," the official said.


Israel has more to lose in case of Turkey break: analysts

 

[faithfulguy]

I think its up to Turkey to give up ties to Israel once Israel does nothing. How much would Israel lose it Turkey cut off the relationship with Israel?

 

[faithfulguy]

Only the US can help arbitrate that issue. Obama will back turkey and use this as an excuse to cause for trouble for Israel.

 

[Parashuram1]

Only the US can help arbitrate that issue. Obama will back turkey and use this as an excuse to cause for trouble for Israel.

I don't think Mr. Obama can take either sides completely. Turkey is valuable player for United States in middle east-Eurasia region while the Jewish lobby is too powerful in Washington to be antaonized.

I believe that White House would be willing to play the role of mediator and solve the conflict directly. When it comes to severing ties, both countries have a lot to lose. I am sure that there's just more than weapons trade between Israel and Turkey in terms of non-military technology as well. IMHO, I think both countries can lose the following:

What Israel loses:

1) A strategic ally in deterring its potential threats

2) Trade with the only middle eastern country that it has official ties to north to itself


What Turkey loses:

1) Potential Western interest from American and NATO perspective due to it 'shedding moderate image'.

2) Possible further distancing from NATO countries due to its simultaneous engagement with Iran, Syria and Russia recently.

In both case, it is very silly to assume that either country has less significant loss than the other because there's a reason for the relations to be called bi-lateral. Perhaps we might not be so aware of a lot of intricate details that exist behind the hood and are merely drawing assumptions of the rhetoric meant for general public consumption.


Jigs:

Don't you think that a mutual investigation and a reconciliation would be of a tenfold benefit to both countries, as opposed to what many members propose here?

 

[Jigs]

Jigs:

Don't you think that a mutual investigation and a reconciliation would be of a tenfold benefit to both countries, as opposed to what many members propose here?

I just don't see the big deal here. You accept the result of the intentional inquiry into the issue or you apologize. Don't you think a country whose armed forces killed citizens of another country should apologize instead of trying very hard to justify it ?

Plus they still have the Mavimarmara! They refuse to give it back.

This isn't a two sided issue. It isn't like Turkey is demanding the death of the Israeli Commandos that did this we just want Israel to accept the results of the International Inquiry or just make it easy and apologize. This goes to show how much Israel cares for "allies" as it refuses to do anything period to better relations.

 

[Solomon2]

The Israelis may have erred, but they did absolutely nothing in violation of international law. On the other hand, the organizers of the militants on the flotilla, and by extension Mr. Erdogan who asserted their peaceful intent, have plenty to apologize for.

Israel won't take Turkey to international court because that would hurt Israel-Turkey relations. But taking Erdogan to court, now or after he leaves office, seems quite possible - unless Israel (falsely) acknowledges responsibility. For that to happen, I think Erdogan may have to offer Israel more than he has thus far - though what that could be, I don't know.

 

[TOPGUN]

Only the US can help arbitrate that issue. Obama will back turkey and use this as an excuse to cause for trouble for Israel.

Obama won't do jack.. and plus israel will not say sorry case closed now everyone has to live with it simple as that its not right but its reailty.

 

[Jigs]

The Israelis may have erred, but they did absolutely nothing in violation of international law. On the other hand, the organizers of the militants on the flotilla, and by extension Mr. Erdogan who asserted their peaceful intent, have plenty to apologize for.

Israel won't take Turkey to international court because that would hurt Israel-Turkey relations. But taking Erdogan to court, now or after he leaves office, seems quite possible - unless Israel (falsely) acknowledges responsibility. For that to happen, I think Erdogan may have to offer Israel more than he has thus far - though what that could be, I don't know.

Its hard to know what to offer a country that has killed your citizens. This is what completely baffles me too. You kill Turkish citizens then you refuse to do anything and at the same time like to keep relations intact. On top of that you affirm some weird belief that Israeli commandos were the victims. The ones that you know raided a ship in international waters. Not only is Israel delusional their government and military wing is very violent. There could have been many ways of stopping that ship and towing it to shore and the first thing they choose to do is send commandos in. Really ? Was a civilian ship far from your coastal waters was such a threat that commandos had to board it and take it over ?

If Israel wanted these ships to stop they shouldn't be looking to board them but provide aid for all of Gaza if they are not capable of this then they can not sustain a blockade it is a human rights violation to block supplies to these people. Also to assert another weird belief that they have to starve and let you die so their own people are not targeted by terrorists therefore it is not their fault at all but it is actually the terrorists that are doing this. Idk about you but if someone shoot someone to save another person and then says he had to do it to protect someone they are arrested and go to jail for a long time.

 

[Solomon2]

Its hard to know what to offer a country that has killed your citizens. This is what completely baffles me too.

Not so difficult. Erdogan can offer his personal apology for helping create the mess. Then Israel could apologize for being unprepared and so using deadly force as a last resort.

There could have been many ways of stopping that ship and towing it to shore and the first thing they choose to do is send commandos in. Really ?

No, not really. You just aren't presenting events as they actually occurred, nor have a grasp of law, that's all.