Turkey’s $50-billion jet program in question

[Quasar]

kind of interesting article if designing, developing and manufacturing our own figther will cost us $31 billion to $33 billion??????? by following the logic and the numbers given in the article lets have a look to the other option....and there is only one option since co-production of a fighter with south korea was faild. our ''the only option'' is buying 200 figthers since we have to replace our aging fleet...then the question is who might be the candidatas;

1-some more F-35,
2-eurofigher or rafale
3- a mixture of 1 and 2
4- highly unlikly but a russian 4,5 which has seemingly a lower price tag but eventuly costing you an amount just a little bit lower than a eurofigher or rafale

-buying 200 eurofigher or rafale....around 120 mil each... total 24 bil

-a mixture some more F-35 and eurofigher or rafale... again most probably some where around 24 bil or even more.


I am not telling anything about TF-X project. just economically speaking . There are three facts; we have to to replace our aging fleet, buying 200 fighters will cost around 24 bil and the development and the final deliveries of TF-X will take more than 2 decades.

so my point is if someone assumes as done by the article that Turkey will have to spend $31 billion to $33 billion for the Turkish fighter, given the fact that buying 200 figther will cost more than 20 bil, arguing that spending extra 7 to 9 bil through more than two decades which is may be less than 300 mil annually renders TF-X project economically unfeasible or in question is a weak argument and it is funny........

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

I'm surprised, to be honest. Seems like I had underestimated their capabilities but I still remain doubtful; many of this products you linked to are either produced under license - meaning that it's close to zero percent domestic innovation involved since much are provided by the original producer as in the means of ToT - or products that aren't nearly as complex as designing and producing aircraft all on your own starting from scratch. Innovation is the keyword here, and many of the projects that you linked to lack any significant amount of it. Don't get me wrong though, what I mean is that even if GCC and Turkey were to lift each other, stretching our arms out to reach the goal, we would still be a bit too short to actually reach all the way to it. Would a joint project work out? Perhaps, but it would require a great amount of patience, innovation and time.



But the political relations between Egypt and Turkey is a little bit shaky. Kinda risky to enter a project of this size with them at the moment.

Brother producing parts under license and building/designing a plane are two different things.



Those trainers are built under license from Pakistan and China... K-8 Korakoram Eagle..

Yep, they do design, this state of the art:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/236075-uae-made-uav-appeals.html

 

[VelocuR]

Whether you agree or laugh, I would suggest you to join Pakistan-China's Joint Programs for next generation jets, Turkey is welcome to join with us.

 

[flamer84]

kind of interesting article if designing, developing and manufacturing our own figther will cost us $31 billion to $33 billion??????? by following the logic and the numbers given in the article lets have a look to the other option....and there is only one option since co-production of a fighter with south korea was faild. our ''the only option'' is buying 200 figthers since we have to replace our aging fleet...then the question is who might be the candidatas;

1-some more F-35,
2-eurofigher or rafale
3- a mixture of 1 and 2
4- highly unlikly but a russian 4,5 which has seemingly a lower price tag but eventuly costing you an amount just a little bit lower than a eurofigher or rafale

-buying 200 eurofigher or rafale....around 120 mil each... total 24 bil

-a mixture some more F-35 and eurofigher or rafale... again most probably some where around 24 bil or even more.


I am not telling anything about TF-X project. just economically speaking . There are three facts; we have to to replace our aging fleet, buying 200 fighters will cost around 24 bil and the development and the final deliveries of TF-X will take more than 2 decades.

so my point is if someone assumes as done by the article that Turkey will have to spend $31 billion to $33 billion for the Turkish fighter, given the fact that buying 200 figther will cost more than 20 bil, arguing that spending extra 7 to 9 bil through more than two decades which is may be less than 300 mil annually renders TF-X project economically unfeasible or in question is a weak argument and it is funny........

Rafale or Eurofighter are in 120 million Euros + price range,at least.That's 24 billion Euros but 24 bill euros=roughly 31 billion $ so you would still be in the same price range,quality wise,i don't know because we don't know what the final turkish product will be.
@Yzd Khalifa-how much did you guys pay for your Eurofighters? I recently read an article in which the germans we're complaining that their price tag hit a whooping 150 million E per plane.

 

[Tshering22]

Well Turkey is in a win-win position now as there are no hostilities (Barring Syrian border which F-16s are good enough to deal with).

Now is the right time to spend that money in getting TF-X to reality.

Don't make the mistake we Indians made. Encourage your agencies to go indigenous as must as possible.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Rafale or Eurofighter are in 120 million Euros + price range,at least.That's 24 billion Euros but 24 bill euros=roughly 31 billion $ so you would still be in the same price range,quality wise,i don't know because we don't know what the final turkish product will be.
@Yzd Khalifa-how much did you guys pay for your Eurofighters? I recently read an article in which the germans we're complaining that their price tag hit a whooping 150 million E per plane.

KSA's Typhoons are Trenche 3, and will be upgraded ahead with Typhoon partners. Our contract is on the range of $8 - 8.5 billions.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

I'm positively sure that KSA will join Turkey's military projects in near future. For now, we know that KSA is interested in the Altay due to the expansion of its military capability.

Turkey must stick to the TFX project as much as it possibly can, it's better to develop something on your own than relying on someone else..

 

[T-123456]

Lets say the cost of 200 fighters would be $50 billion.
Im sure there would be at least some 200/300 ordered by,KSA(GCC),Azerbaijan an maybe some South-American,African countries.
So all in all it would be very much in our interest since the off the shelf procurement would allmost cost the same.

 

[-SINAN-]

The F-16 are currently making up TuAF's tier 1. Since the F-35 also is of the same type of aircraft (multirole fighter), I don't see why they would need to be accompanied by air-superiority fighters - just as our current fleet of F-16s are all by themselves.

F-16s are superior to F-35s in aerial combat so as Eurofighter and Russian counterparts.

 

[T-123456]

F-16s are superior to F-35s in aerial combat so as Eurofighter and Russian counterparts.

F-35 doesnt need areal combat,it can take out the F-16 out or the others with BVR.
Or am i wrong ?

 

[-SINAN-]

F-35 doesnt need areal combat,it cant take out the F-16 out or the others with BVR.
Or am i wrong ?

In theory yes, but can you guarantee me our F-35s will never ever, go in to aerial combat ? There are lots of discussions about this subject, i can't be sure as well.

 

[T-123456]

In theory yes, but can you guarantee me our F-35s will never ever, go in to aerial combat ? There are lots of discussions about this subject, i can't be sure as well.

Im sure that if we dont have AS fighters,we will have to use the F-35 in that role also.
But if the BVR is there plus stealth,i dont think we have to worry about areal combat.
We detect them before they can detect us,thanks to stealth.

 

[Armstrong]

Yep, they do design, this state of the art:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/236075-uae-made-uav-appeals.html

Babes we're the only one in the Muslim World (including Turkey) who've got any experience in designing & developing a 4th Generation or above Aircraft !

Heck we even gave valuable inputs to the Chinese in their J-10 program due to our extensive experience working with the F-16s & then modelling the Jf-17 around, what we considered to be, the salient features of the F-16 !

You can't beat us !

Learn the difference between a Joint-Venture & a License Production - Yeah....baby !

But the Turks are ahead of us in the avionics department !

 

[rcrmj]

I believe its better to drop F-35 sooner the better, I don't think Turkey will get much from that apart from the actual plane, since I believe Turkey is at relative safe environment, so you should give you some time on researching and developing your own indigenous projects, beside turkey can get many helps from the west unlike China and Pakistan in this matters

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Babes we're the only one in the Muslim World (including Turkey) who've got any experience in designing & developing a 4th Generation or above Aircraft !

Heck we even gave valuable inputs to the Chinese in their J-10 program due to our extensive experience working with the F-16s & then modelling the Jf-17 around, what we considered to be, the salient features of the F-16 !

You can't beat us !

Learn the difference between a Joint-Venture & a License Production - Yeah....baby !

But the Turks are ahead of us in the avionics department !

Whatever makes you sleep at night..