Turkey PM: No reconciliation with Israel until end of Gaza siege

[Falcon29]

In reality both should get equal treatment. I also agree that Pakistanis did more for Palestine than the other way around.

Is this supposed to mean anything?

Obviously Pakistan never allowed him or others like him to leave the PAF - They were Pakistani Pilots on secondment to Arab Countries who volunteered to fight in the Arab-Israeli War because they like all Pakistanis cared about the Palestinian Issue & the ensuing Arab-Israeli Rivalry, the Govt. obviously permitted him to do so - a little like how the American pilots fought under the British Flag in WW2 before America was officially in the war !

Show me where these pilots said they were doing it for the Palestinians. Either way God bless them. You're just being too extreme here....

 

[Tameem]

Did he volunteer to be one of the pilots amongst those Pakistan wanted to send? Or did Pakistan allow him to leave the Pakistani Air Force and make his own personal decision? Your thread still mentions he came to aid of Arabic nations.

Pakistani air force states that all its volunteer pilots scored direct hits against Israeli aircrafts and suffered no losses. During the 1973 war, for example Flt. Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, flying a Syrian aircraft to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat. Similarly and on the Egyptian front, PAF pilot Flt. Lt. M. Hatif , flying an Egyptian MiG-21 shot down an Israeli F-4 phantom in an air combat. Pakistani Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft in any of the wars.
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/08/01/229723.html

 

[Falcon29]

Pakistani air force states that all its volunteer pilots scored direct hits against Israeli aircrafts and suffered no losses. During the 1973 war, for example Flt. Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, flying a Syrian aircraft to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat. Similarly and on the Egyptian front, PAF pilot Flt. Lt. M. Hatif , flying an Egyptian MiG-21 shot down an Israeli F-4 phantom in an air combat. Pakistani Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft in any of the wars.
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/08/01/229723.html

That's not what I'm disputing.

 

[Armstrong]

Show me where these pilots said they were doing it for the Palestinians. Either way God bless them. You're just being too extreme here....

Of course they didn't say that no one says that - Why would anyone say that ?

When Pakistan's Position on the Palestinian Issue has been Crystal Clear since '47 !

We didn't have Defense Pacts with Jordan, Egypt or Syria !

We sent our boys because of the Arab-Israeli Rivalry because we sympathized vociferously with the Palestinian Cause !

 

[500]

But even if they are true, I have absolutely no problem with it, because it all happened when you gave the madman, Saddam, $60 billions to fight Iran. Do you have any idea how much that is? Instead of all these whining about conspiracy theories regarding Israeli-Iranian relations, you could give at least a percent of that money to your 'brothers' in Palestine.

Palestinian Authority budget is nearly 4 billion a year. UNRWA budget is over 1 billion a year. Hamas, Islamic Jihad etc get from Iran and Arab donations about billion a year. Thats 6 billion annual aid. In 18 years of Palestinian Authority existence its over $100 billion.

 

[al-Hasani]

Is this supposed to mean anything?

This means that the Pakistanis have done more for Palestinians and us Arabs than the other way around in terms of being DIRECTLY (militarily) involved in the two conflicts.

On the other hand our humanitarian aid, financial support, especially from KSA, extends what they have offered millions times over. I don't ever expect them to repay that nor do I want that to happen. We have more money and it is our obligation as Muslims, humans etc. to help people in need especially long-time allies. It depends what you prefer or what you focuses on.

This just means that I as an Arab and person from the ME can admit to that being a fact. So I understand some of @Armstrong 's criticism.

 

[Armstrong]

This means that the Pakistanis have done more for Palestinians and us ARabs than the other way around in terms of being DIRECTLY (militarily) involved in the two conflicts.

This just means that I as an Arab and person from the ME can admit to that. So I understand some of @Armstrong 's criticism.

We've done more for you than just Militarily - We even got you out of a tight spot when you were about to be beaten up by a bunch of Neo-Nazis in Denmark !

 

[Falcon29]

Of course they didn't say that no one says that - Why would anyone say that ?

When Pakistan's Position on the Palestinian Issue has been Crystal Clear since '47 !

We didn't have Defense Pacts with Jordan, Egypt or Syria !

We sent our boys because of the Arab-Israeli Rivalry because we sympathized vociferously with the Palestinian Cause !

If they didn't say that why are you saying they volunteered due to their sympathy with the Palestinian cause?

At this point it doesn't matter, you want to call me out do so in a separate thread and let us get back on topic.

 

[Aamna14]

I demand all of that from the Arabs as well & expect much more of them then I do of Palestinians hence why I want a formulation of domestic & foreign policy that renders inert our idiotic notions of Muslims everywhere being Brothers of one another - Our Muslim Brethren don't care about us...not in the least bit !

All they care about are $$$s or their ethnicities !

Yeah but whats frustrating is that those countries don't get to face the heat in most cases. They are usually referred to as brothers and supporters as if they had backed us concerning Kashmir. Mahmoud Abbas visits Pakistan and places India and Pakistan on the same plane, as far as their policy goes, and its a betrayal but the same done by the Saudis and God knows how many others goes unnoticed. These are plain double standards

 

[Tameem]

@Hazzy997
In those times Pakistan was in American Camp (member of Seato & Sento) Against Soviets (communists), But its only for Palestinian cause that we tactically leave behind our bond with Americans and joins countries (i.e., Egypt, Syria others) that are in our opposing group.

 

[Falcon29]

This means that the Pakistanis have done more for Palestinians and us Arabs than the other way around in terms of being DIRECTLY (militarily) involved in the two conflicts.

On the other hand our humanitarian aid, financial support, especially from KSA, extends what they have offered millions times over. I don't ever expect them to repay that nor do I want that to happen. We have more money and it is our obligation as Muslims, humans etc. to help people in need especially long-time allies. It depends what you prefer or what you focuses on.

This just means that I as an Arab and person from the ME can admit to that being a fact. So I understand some of @Armstrong 's criticism.

Okay, that's fine, I thought you were referring to Palestinians who have no means to return the favor.

Haven't Arabic nations supported Pakistan with much aid especially for their military?

Anyways...this is a separate discussion that shouldn't be discussed in this thread.

 

[Armstrong]

If they didn't say that why are you saying they volunteered due to their sympathy with the Palestinian cause?

At this point it doesn't matter, you want to call me out do so in a separate thread and let us get back on topic.

Because Pakistan has supported the Arab-Israeli Wars, has struck up an enmity with Israel & refused to recognize Israel because of the Palestinian Cause not because of some frigging Border Issue between Israel & Syria !

 

[Wholegrain]

al-hasani, for God's sake stop writing so much nonsense here, there are people out there who are not that stupid to believe these ridiculous claims.

About that wiki link that you have posted on this forum for a million times. Most of those claims in the article are denied by Iran. But even if they are true, I have absolutely no problem with it, because it all happened when you gave the madman, Saddam, $60 billions to fight Iran. Do you have any idea how much that is? Instead of all these whining about conspiracy theories regarding Israeli-Iranian relations, you could give at least a percent of that money to your 'brothers' in Palestine.

while you claim that Iran and Israel have secret relations, there are too many reports about secret deals between Arabs and Israel to team up against Iran. So don't try to play innocent with us, it doesn't suit you.

Israel also supported the anti-Soviet resistance in Afghanistan with arms and collaborated with Pakistan and China on this issue , we who supported the Afghan Mujahideen don't hide that fact (China, Pakistan), so why are you ashamed in denying that Iran accepted Israeli aid when it was desperate? Lets not hide the facts.

Daily Times - Site Edition

The Peninsula On-line: Qatar's leading English Daily

US-Pakistan Relationship: Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan - A. Z. Hilali - Google Books

Afghanistan, Arms and Conflict: Armed Groups, Disarmament and Security in a ... - Michael Vinay Bhatia, Mark Sedra - Google Books

Condemned to Repeat?: The Paradox of Humanitarian Action - Fiona Terry - Google Books

The New Silk Road Diplomacy: China's Central Asian Foreign Policy Since the ... - Hasan Haider Karrar - Google Books

China, Pakistan, and Israel were going to liase with Iran under the Shah to cooperate against the Soviet Union, but when the Shah was overthrown China was alarmed that Iran was going to go to the Soviet bloc. When Khomeini turned out not to be pro Soviet, we continued relations.

Unholy Wars: Afghanistan, America and International Terrorism - John Cooley - Google Books

Every country that dealt with Israel did it for its own interests, there is no hiding or denying that Iran needed weapons to fight in the war, and Iran itself was threatened. Nobody obligated Iran not to do this.

 

[Serpentine]

I am not going to have a discussion with you. You are a Mullah supporter and live in Tehran where your computer etc. are monitored. You don't live in a country where free speech etc. exists. Go protest/conspire against your Mullah rulers and you will end up in prison or worst off get hanged for being "an enemy of God". No matter what you say then your country (Mullah regime more precisely because the commoners like you have little to say) have had ties with Israel. They helped you when you most needed it. That's a fact. Everybody knows it.

Now I understand what your problem is.
I'm not a mullah supporter and I have my own problems with them which are not of your concern, but at least I'm not a dying fan of a single family who is ruling my country for nearly a century and have changed the name of the country to their tribe.

And Iran's relation with Israel is not your concern either, go do something about secret meeting of your representatives privately begging Israel and U.S to do something about Iran. I mean that's even more lame. There are hundreds of different reports confirming it.

so why are you ashamed in denying that Iran accepted Israeli aid when it was desperate? Lets not hide the facts.

Read my post again. I'm not ashamed of anything and I already said that if those reports are true, it's totally fine by me, because at the same time, Arabs gave Iraq $60 billions to fight their war against Iran. I hope you understand now. There is nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[al-Hasani]

We've done more for you than just Militarily - We even got you out of a tight spot when you were about to be beaten up by a bunch of Neo-Nazis in Denmark !

LOL. The streets in Denmark are run by Arabs, Turks and others. Nobody dares to touch them. Besides there is more racism towards Eastern Europeans who are accused of stealing the jobs of locals and for being criminals and towards Gypsies than there is towards any Arabs let alone people from the ME. Some are against Islam and thus see the Arabs and other Muslim groups as enemies but they are in the minority.

Many of the richest/most successful businessmen are of Arab origins. Likewise Arab women are doing better off academically than the native Danes!

The men on the other hand are doing much worse than their women and the native Danish males!

Regarding Kashmir:

On the other hand our humanitarian aid, financial support, especially from KSA, extends what they have offered millions times over. I don't ever expect them to repay that nor do I want that to happen. We have more money and it is our obligation as Muslims, humans etc. to help people in need especially long-time allies. It depends what you prefer or what you focuses on.

Likewise Pakistan was stronger militarily back then so. This just shows that there is at least hope and that both our governments who we do not represent directly have helped both people which is a good thing if you ask me.

It helps the pessimist in me.