Turkey, Pakistan: Inside the Ankara-Islamabad axis

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

some of these people that love ataturk and things he did have friends and family that do a lot of the things ataturk hated. like hijab, religious knowledge, etc. i wonder how they would feel if ataturk cracked down on them or maybe they themselves would pull the fingernails and rip the hijab off their friends and family's heads. ataturk is a jahannami.

Do not believe a wrongful messenger. Despire his flaws, do you know that Ataturk may have been Hafiz e Quran? He corrected Islamic scholars several times in his life. He prayed janazah over his soldiers, made dua, and consulted religious scholars as well.

His view was this that Islam had to be divorced from the corrupt mullahs of the Ottoman state and allowed to flourish again without state control. Ataturk's secularism was different from European secularism, and he felt that Islam needed to be saved from all the gathered evil forces which had destroyed his Ottoman state.

There is a reason that a pious and righteous man like Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah admired Ataturk and said he was the greatest of Musulmans (Muslims.) How he was so impressed by Ataturk's life and leadership, that he would always talk about him, to the point that his daughter started calling him 'Grey Wolf.'

Let us be clear. Allah swt saves you by his own methods and sends the heroes which he chooses, not the ones you choose.

Sometimes the clean-shaved, Western mannered Muslim leaders like Ataturk and Quaid e Azam can do more for Islam than a whole generation of scholars.

was Prophet Muhammed wrong?

This guy is an atheist, so ofcourse we can't expect him to respect Islam.

There should be a rule on this forum that Non-Muslims are forbidden to comment on Islam or Muslim topics. 90% of the blasphemy on PDF will end.

He doesn't and he never said that. There is definitely a growing consensus in Pakistan that a significant proportion of Pakistani Mullahs have worked against Pakistan's interest and slowed down our progress as a country. They are more concerned with the interests of non-Pakistanis.

Bhai, don't defend this guy who has been banned by Mods before for insulting Muslims and Islam.

I don't even know what is Pakistani left in this mindset, except the name.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Do not believe a wrongful messenger. Despire his flaws, do you know that Ataturk may have been Hafiz e Quran? He corrected Islamic scholars several times in his life. He prayed janazah over his soldiers, made dua, and consulted religious scholars as well.

His view was this that Islam had to be divorced from the corrupt mullahs of the Ottoman state and allowed to flourish again without state control. Ataturk's secularism was different from European secularism, and he felt that Islam needed to be saved from all the gathered evil forces which had destroyed his Ottoman state.

There is a reason that a pious and righteous man like Quaid e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah admired Ataturk and said he was the greatest of Musulmans (Muslims.) How he was so impressed by Ataturk's life and leadership, that he would always talk about him, to the point that his daughter started calling him 'Grey Wolf.'

Let us be clear. Allah swt saves you by his own methods and sends the heroes which he chooses, not the ones you choose.

Sometimes the clean-shaved, Western mannered Muslim leaders like Ataturk and Quaid e Azam can do more for Islam than a whole generation of scholars.



This guy is an atheist, so ofcourse we can't expect him to respect Islam.

There should be a rule on this forum that Non-Muslims are forbidden to comment on Islam or Muslim topics. 90% of the blasphemy on PDF will end.


Bhai, don't defend this guy who has been banned by Mods before for insulting Muslims and Islam.

I don't even know what is Pakistani left in this mindset, except the name.

the Khawarij also had Hafiz in their ranks. they are jahannami. i am not going to praise Ataturk. he made a lot of anti-islamic statements. maybe Jinnah didnt know all about that, so i am not going to comment on it.

 

[Mohamed Bin Tughlaq]

the Khawarij also had Hafiz in their ranks. they are jahannami. i am not going to praise Ataturk. he made a lot of anti-islamic statements. maybe Jinnah didnt know all about that, so i am not going to comment on it.

Only Allah knows where he will end both he was not righteous man and his still the founding father of modern Turkey and since AKP came to power they have overturned many of his rulings that was ludicrous some of them. I am not bothered by the name

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

 

[CodeforFood]

some of these people that love ataturk and things he did have friends and family that do a lot of the things ataturk hated. like hijab, religious knowledge, etc. i wonder how they would feel if ataturk cracked down on them or maybe they themselves would pull the fingernails and rip the hijab off their friends and family's heads. ataturk is a jahannami.

No one should ignore the military exploits of attaturk. Turkey still there because of him.

 

[Mentee]

When was the last time mullah went anywhere even near the musical chair in Pakistan? Never been a fan of the clergy but lets just diagnose it earnestly. Its the sellout self hating oxford breed which have been proven to be a curse on Pakistan. Whats their contribution anyways ?



Don't tell me arranging an abstract painting festival or publishing some toxic op-ed/column every now then eqautes to modernity .Mate nations don't progress with just holding a cup of tea or mastering english grammer ------- you gotta adopt administrative and empirical science to climb the ladder.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

No one should ignore the military exploits of attaturk. Turkey still there because of him.

i am not ignoring it. but that doesnt make him some super pious muslim.

 

[Goritoes]

Lets us not mixed the religious connection, and Ideological/Political connection of Pakistan and Turkey, What Attaturk did or did not was for his people betterment, and what he at that time think was the right decision to save whatever was left of Turkey, Ottomans Caliphs in their last days were corrupt and their clergy was also down the lower ends. What I really admire about Turkey is that despite being in the Western court for so long they still maintain a balance between secularism and religion, it's not like they start demolishing Mosques and prohibiting other essential worships. Every nation has their good and bad times, and every man on earth is prone to make mistakes and bad/wrong judgements base on how they understand things, if people like Usman, Ali , Hussian, Zubair , Talha RA all made judgements which anger a large portion of Muslims who were nourished by the Prophet SAW himself than anyone can.

 

[CodeforFood]

i am not ignoring it. but that doesnt make him some super pious muslim.

so naming the exercise for Ataturk does make sense considering his exploits... right

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

so naming the exercise for Ataturk does make sense considering his exploits... right

i dont know man. i really dont care about what they name it.

 

[tkmd]

The atheists posting here are really entertaining. Naming a street after someone who is respected in a nation you wish to have strong relations with is somehow a game changer in their books. LOL. We recently rebuilt a gurdwara are we now also Sikh? We congratulate Christians on their holy days....does that make us European?

The reality is you all are the effluence of upbringings devoid of class, erudition or any semblance of decency.

As to Ataturk he was the end product of an empire in decline. He was not the pinnacle of that empire. He was the result of its defeat. If one is to have a fact based discussion then how can one ignore the victors of Ottoman history? The ones who built the empire, spread Islam and presided over a flourishing khilafa?

It doesn’t surprise me that those with such ill bred origins and deviant upbringings would ignore 6 centuries of triumph and focus on a literal blip in the arc of Turkish history. And if we accept your idiotic focus then you should remember Erdogan has been in power for longer than Ataturk was. And despite all your latest proclamations of his end he’s still firmly in control.

 

[Respect4Respect01]

He doesn't and he never said that. There is definitely a growing consensus in Pakistan that a significant proportion of Pakistani Mullahs have worked against Pakistan's interest and slowed down our progress as a country. They are more concerned with the interests of non-Pakistanis.

oh i didn't knew bhutto, zardar, nawaz and mushraff were all "Mullahs"...

 

[CodeforFood]

The atheists posting here are really entertaining. Naming a street after someone who is respected in a nation you wish to have strong relations with is somehow a game changer in their books. LOL. We recently rebuilt a gurdwara are we now also Sikh? We congratulate Christians on their holy days....does that make us European?

The reality is you all are the effluence of upbringings devoid of class, erudition or any semblance of decency.

As to Ataturk he was the end product of an empire in decline. He was not the pinnacle of that empire. He was the result of its defeat. If one is to have a fact based discussion then how can one ignore the victors of Ottoman history? The ones who built the empire, spread Islam and presided over a flourishing khilafa?

It doesn’t surprise me that those with such ill bred origins and deviant upbringings would ignore 6 centuries of triumph and focus on a literal blip in the arc of Turkish history. And if we accept your idiotic focus then you should remember Erdogan has been in power for longer than Ataturk was. And despite all your latest proclamations of his end he’s still firmly in control.

It was more of Sultanate then a caliphate. When they decided to declare it caliphate they were pretty much done at that time as a dominant European power.

Ataturk military exploits are definitely legendary and in hindsight his political actions thwarted any further push from European alliances that ultimately turks would have failed to stop. We see the semblance of turks identity because of that.
People here who has a great fetish about fall of ottomans don't understand that ottomans were pretty much done being a power for a long time already with no sign of them gaining back their glory days.

 

[Azadkashmir]

When was the last time mullah went anywhere even near the musical chair in Pakistan? Never been a fan of the clergy but lets just diagnose it earnestly. Its the sellout self hating oxford breed which have been proven to be a curse on Pakistan. Whats their contribution anyways ?



Don't tell me arranging an abstract painting festival or publishing some toxic op-ed/column every now then eqautes to modernity .Mate nations don't progress with just holding a cup of tea or mastering english grammer ------- you gotta adopt administrative and empirical science to climb the ladder.

china is great example with Chinese characteristic. bt here in uk chinese do suffer from inferiority complex it seems to be a real disease amongst many Asian nations.

 

[jupiter2007]

Saudi’s are reach out to India.