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Turkey navy to escort aid ships to Palestinians in Gaza

Pakistan giving it's nukes to Turkey is just a dream. "Abba hazoor" won't allow it ;)

I don't think Uncle Sam has that much influence over Pakistan.
Pakistani leadership--both civilians and military--are not 'puppets'. They may be insecure because of financial reasons but they are not puppets.
But, anyway, Pakistan equipping Turkey with nukes is a possibility. My understanding is both Dr. A.Q.Khan and General Aslam Baig wanted to equip Iran with nukes--Dr. Khan said that he wanted to 'deflect' attention from Pakistani nukes by doing so. And so, if Pakistanis perceive their Turkish 'brothers' to be blackmailed by Israeli nukes then they may--and probably will--throw caution to the wind and equip Turkey with nukes.

PS. All this topic is based upon basically a few sources. Much speculation. Turkish navy in 'Eastern Mediterrarian' in an 'aggressive' mode or providing 'escort' to the Gaza flotilla? Or, as @Gambit says a few pages above, Turkey is looking to save-face by some token gesture.
 
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Meegla really it s not a joke.. Turkey is not just looking to save face that stupid to think. Turkey doesnt operate like that. They are not that simple.
 
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I don't think Uncle Sam has that much influence over Pakistan.
Pakistani leadership--both civilians and military--are not 'puppets'. They may be insecure because of financial reasons but they are not puppets.
But, anyway, Pakistan equipping Turkey with nukes is a possibility. My understanding is both Dr. A.Q.Khan and General Aslam Baig wanted to equip Iran with nukes--Dr. Khan said that he wanted to 'deflect' attention from Pakistani nukes by doing so. And so, if Pakistanis perceive their Turkish 'brothers' to be blackmailed by Israeli nukes then they may--and probably will--throw caution to the wind and equip Turkey with nukes.

PS. All this topic is based upon basically a few sources. Much speculation. Turkish navy in 'Eastern Mediterrarian' in an 'aggressive' mode or providing 'escort' to the Gaza flotilla? Or, as @Gambit says a few pages above, Turkey is looking to save-face by some token gesture.

I am all for Pakistan giving it's nukes to Turkey from a religious and political perspective. However, at this point, what makes you think that the civilian government or army will do anything when there are CIA operatives/offices all over the country and Shasmi base under US control?
Moreover, is Turkey willing take the political risk as they know the NATO "allies" will not support them?

Off topic-- I believe that our Turkish brothers should cease wanting to join the EU and leave NATO while actively striving to improve its ties with Russia and China and form a powerful block by joining the SCO (excluding india)
 
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You think were some Indians or Arabs or something? WE ARE TURKS!! The people who can be compared with us are JAPANESE and KOREANS only!!
Don`t insult the Japanese and Koreans, nor could Turkey flatter herself to be equal to India.

And to all those dreaming about Turkey receiving nukes from anyone, well i got bad news for you:

1.Every country with nukes enjoys the fact that they alone have those WMD and not anyone else, they won`t be sharing anytime soon.
2.Any nation to give another nation nukes to use against a third nation is going to be nuked themselves...
 
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this is not a good time to become aggressive. Patience is the key. Strike at the right moment. Turkey can not afford to become the bad guy in the eye of uncle sam. They will have to wait. They will have to wait for the right time.. Because this is the time to minimize gap with western powers. You are going to a right direction now... Your economy is doing very well. So wait. Israel is a tiny nation and can not compete with growth of other muslim nations such as turkey , indonesia. Their modernization will be halted soon... And other muslim countries will get the opportunity to match israel. I think military Budget of turkey and saudi arabia is way larger than israel already... So just concentrate on development. Soon these zionist thugs will lose their track... This israel will help to re-establish Ummah. Cause we muslims are divided through boundaries, interest but we all agree on one thing- Palestine must be free. This aim will bring us together again INSHALLAH .
 
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Modern wars are not fought by numbers only. Technology is the key. One man with a machine can is better than 100 sword-carrying men standing in front of him; that' just a quick analogy.


This is exactly what is said before. And the fact still remains that Israel was heavily out numbered in such wars as Yom Kippur:

Take a look:


The Yom Kippur War of 1973

The combined forces of Egypt and Syria totaled the same number of men as NATO had in Western Europe. On the Golan Heights alone, 150 Israeli tanks faced 1,400 Syria tanks and in the Suez region just 500 Israeli soldiers faced 80,000 Egyptian soldiers.




As for technology, Israel often had inferior technology such as upgraded Sherman tanks, and Mirages that had awful dog-fighting performance yet the Israelis still defeated the Arabs with better training and better tactics. I do not think that anyone is arguing that technology is not key but superior training has proven that it can overcome better technology. And as of Today the Israeli military is one of the most modern militaries in the world, and yes their equipment is superior to Turkey's.



Anyway, beating Bedouin armies or 3rd world potentate was easy. But Turkey is different. I still say that in a one-to-one Turkey will eventually prevail. Turkey has more will to take casualties, more land to absorb hits, and is a ferocious fighter with a long, deep, proud history--and is also technologically not that bad either.



3rd world armies? :lol: The Arabs had the best tanks at the time mainly T-54's, T-55's and T-62's. Most importantly the Arabs had the Mig-21 which was superior to most aircraft that Israel had, the Arabs also had the Mig-17 and Mig-19 which was superb at dog fighting and all three aircraft proved their capabilities in Vietnam. Israel operated mostly the Mirage III followed by the Phantom. Even Israeli pilots have said that the Mig-21 was better than the Mirage but it was Israeli skill that prevailed. The Israeli pilots were smart enough to know how to fight with the Migs and how not to fight with the Mirage. The Israeli pilots exploited weaknesses and looked for Arab pilots to hesitate.



Anyway, I keep repeating about the groundbreaking study by Mearsheimer and Walt called 'The Israel Lobby'. Here is an excerpt from that.


John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt · The Israel Lobby: the Israel Lobby · LRB 23 March 2006



The war of independence :rolleyes: try Yom Kippur there is no one not even the Arabs that dispute the fact that Israel was outnumbered. And are you really mitigating the fact that the countries that Israel fought did not receive aid? Once Israel was at war with one Arab country another Arab country would attack Israel, is that not aid? While Israel received things such as fuel and perhaps weapons from the US the Arabs received the same from the Soviet Union. Not to mention all the various forms of aid from other Arab countries that were not directly involved in the fighting.



israel won because of air superiority, something the arabs lacked. air superiority probably plays the biggest role to win a war


Air superiority from superior training and tactics. The Israelis had spies in Egypt as well as great tactisioners and as a result of that the Israelis knew when, where and how to destroy Egyptian aircraft. The Israelis attacked Egyptian aircraft on the ground. In fact there was only two Egyptian aircraft flying in all of Egypt when Israel began its assault. Israeli ground crews were also world class, the turn around time for Israeli aircraft was nothing short of amazing. The Israelis managed to service, refuel, and reload Israeli aircraft at an unheard of rate--even for today’s standards, as a result of that the Israelis were constantly able to fly sorties.

What a shamefull comment i nver would expect this from a Russian!


Do you mind telling me what was so 'shameful' about my comment? I merely stated that the Israeli military is world class, the only people that think otherwise are Muslims, and sorry if that sounded rash or bad but it's true.



Listen we dont even affraid of Russia who the hell is Israel?



This is silly. Russia is not an enemy of Turkey but even if it was the conventional Russian military would be more than enough for Turkey. Here is the thing Russia has weapons that Turkey does not, this means Russia can hit targets in Turkey but Turkey would have trouble hitting targets in Russia. Russia has long range strategic bombers, armed with long range cruise missiles as well as conventional bombs. We also have ICBM's that can hit anywhere in Turkey, couple that with the largest tank force in the world, one of the largest navies, Air Forces and Nuclear stockpiles and you do have something to be afraid of.



Scaring off some Arabs doenst mean anything for us.. the point is we (Turks) are not like those others. Remember our leader Erdogan (Born soldier) warned Israelis and the world that nobody should make the mistake to compare Turkiye to any other country! we are totally different Military is part of our culture it is in our genes we are a military nation we Turks can even fight you Russian and Israelis combined with Greece and all others really no big deal no problem at all its an honour for us even if we die all..



You will lose.



Read some history about our wars in the past, Russia never dared to attack Turks alone. Always made deals with UK, French from the west, you came from east combined you make chance. alone you lost all wars. Today not much changed, If you wanna test the battlefield is there.. Also Turkey-Russia,Greece, Cyprus we almost had war in the 90s for those Cyprus S-300 your navy would come to fight us? why did they abort the mission? Did we ever stepped back? did we ever fear to fight?




Seems like you need to read history, Turkey itself often fought with the British and French. Ever heard of the Crimean War? And it was Turkey that lost almost every battle and war to Russia. Reading this might be helpful:

History of the Russo-Turkish wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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And NATO will further loose its credibility, if it does not supports Turkey. A time will come when people will say that NATO is just a fake alliance. Russia will start flexing its muscles.

Turkey starts a war with Israel by sailing its navy into Israeli waters escorting a propoganda fleet sailing to gaza rather than just sending supplies through Egypt then Turkey is on its own. Nato is a defense organisation.

the organization constitutes a system of collective defence whereby its member states agree to mutual defense in response to an attack by any external party.

Some one attacks Turkey they come to its aid, Erdoğan starts a war with Israel becuse he is butt hurt over the report Turkey is on its own.
 
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And NATO will further loose its credibility, if it does not supports Turkey. A time will come when people will say that NATO is just a fake alliance. Russia will start flexing its muscles.
Turkey starts a war with Israel by sailing its navy into Israeli waters escorting a propoganda fleet sailing to gaza rather than just sending supplies through Egypt then Turkey is on its own. Nato is a defense organisation.



Some one attacks Turkey they come to its aid, Erdoğan starts a war with Israel becuse he is butt hurt over the report Turkey is on its own.
Bringing in NATO is at least an argument based upon a flawed understanding of the charter and at worst a dangerous precedent. Every alliance has conditions for when the member states are compelled to come to another member state's call for help. Usually that is when said member state is in imminent danger or when threatened but not if a member state is acting in an aggressive manner towards someone else, alliance member or not. In fact, the NATO charter specifically mention that its existence encourages peaceful resolutions when members do have conflicts against each other. In this case, a member is acting aggressively towards a non-member, demanding the alliance to use its collective might in such a fashion and under the alliance's charter make the alliance a conquering one who is just waiting for any excuse to act militarily.
 
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One wonders if Kurdish people are any less Muslims than the Gazans.

If Turkey ups the rhetoric in Gaza,

Others can create the similar problems in Kurdish areas.

What they say! Those who live in glass houses ........

I wonder why no one replied to this comment..

We all know what a little help to fighters can do..If Kurdish fighters start getting MANPADs and Tank Busters Turkey will have a lot to worry about in its own land ..Will they still go for Gaza ..?
 
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I wonder why no one replied to this comment..

We all know what a little help to fighters can do..If Kurdish fighters start getting MANPADs and Tank Busters Turkey will have a lot to worry about in its own land ..Will they still go for Gaza ..?

communism and islam doesn't go well together, PKK are communists thats why muslims dont support them much.
 
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I wonder why no one replied to this comment..

We all know what a little help to fighters can do..If Kurdish fighters start getting MANPADs and Tank Busters Turkey will have a lot to worry about in its own land ..Will they still go for Gaza ..?


Turkey just "bomb-oozled" 160 Kurds, many in the civilian villages. This is a huge atrocity from Kurdish point of view and much bigger than some of the Israeli attacks on Gaza.

Turkey badly needs global support in its drive against Kurdish militants.
So it will be a bad time to go on offensive against Israel, while it struggles against Hamas/salafi/Hizbullah militants.


As I said earlier, Turkey itself is living in a glass house, thus it should not cast stones on Israel.


peace.
 
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communism and islam doesn't go well together, PKK are communists thats why muslims dont support them much.

So, they are less islamists or, Muslims than Turks..?

And as FaujHistorian pointed out Turkey needs global support in its drive against Kurds...
If they go on the worng side of US and Israel..We all know how easily a new militia can be formed in those areas..Its better to not start a conflict and try to resolve through peaceful manners..
 
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As I said earlier, Turkey itself is living in a glass house, thus it should not cast stones on Israel.


peace.[/QUOTE]

We dont care.. we will not be silent even if whole world turn their back we will defend Gaza people. And nobody can do anything about it.. support anyone, any group you want.. and this is my answer to the jew about Japanese and Koreans those are our Altaic brothers believe it or not Koreans and Turks have bonds you dont know about because they also Altaic people. + we were allies with Japanese during ww1 and fighted alongside Koreans against the communist china and n-korea.. hundreds of our soldiers graves in Korea! Koreans and Japanese discipline, strenght, will to fight can be compared withh us. I can give no other example as these two come the closest just to give an idea Israeli army is nothing they never had a real war never faced a real military. Its all propaganda.. If war begin we all will witness Israel will not even be able to hold on for 2 days..
 
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