Turkey, Israel trade turnover up by more than $130M

[mangekyo]

Next time try harder before using the ummah card.

I am not the one using the ummah card here. Your boss Tayyip is

 

[xenon54 out]

I am not the one using the ummah card here. Your boss Tayyip is

Oh really? And erdo is not my boss, just a goner politician.

I like this new Muslim Ummah that consists of Israel, Turkey NATO, Pakistani Erdogan fan boys and "moderate rebels" formerly known as ISIS, Nusrah, HTS and Al Qaida . Nice Ummah indeed. Dajjal is proud of this holy islamic alliance. Enjoy

So, you are Erdogan now?

 

[mangekyo]

Oh really? And erdo is not my boss, we have no supreme leader in Turkey.

So, you are Erdogan now?

I was referencing Erdogans Ummah policy.

 

[Kiryu]

I am more Turk than you. Turks migrated from east not from the west...

You don't even believe your language should have official status in Iran, you're happy to see Turks assimilated. That's quite destructive views for someone who claims to be "more Turk" than others. I have too much pride in my heritage to allow it to be destroyed like that.
Anyway, your joy over the attacks on Turkish troops spurred me to return to these forums so it was pretty evident.

You're right about the East - West Turkic migrations though. My heritage is Yoruk. I've had DNA tests taken. My Y-DNA terminal SNP is an uncommon line of haplogroup N. So far it's been found in other Yoruks, Kazakhs, Buryats, Sakha, northern Chinese (Shandong). Quite clear my ancestors came from the East.

 

[mangekyo]

You don't even believe your language should have official status in Iran, you're happy to see Turks assimilated. That's quite destructive views for someone who claims to be "more Turk" than others. I have too much pride in my heritage to allow it to be destroyed like that.
Anyway, your joy over the attacks on Turkish troops spurred me to return to these forums so it was pretty evident.

You're right about the East - West Turkic migrations though. My heritage is Yoruk. I've had DNA tests taken. My Y-DNA terminal SNP is an uncommon line of haplogroup N. So far it's been found in other Yoruks, Kazakhs, Buryats, Sakha, northern Chinese (Shandong). Quite clear my ancestors came from the East.

I dont want my language to have official status in Iran because Persian has been the only official language of Iran for thousands of years. Even during Seljuk rule, Saffavid rule, Afsharid rule, Qajar rule etc. I like to keep it that way and dont encourage foreign influenced separatism.

I don't have joy in Turkish soldiers being killed. I disliked Erdogan the day he started cooperating with ISIS and the rest of the terrorists. And it has nothing to do with Iran. In fact, Erdogan is the best thing that happened to Iran. He helped us withstand sanctions. His moronic policy has distanced Turkey from US and Israel, which is good for Iran.

I simply return the favor when Turkish members for no reason start attacking Iran, badmouthing our soldiers by calling them dogs etc. Wishing destruction upon us. Celebrating corona virus etc.

 

[Kiryu]

I dont want my language to have official status in Iran because Persian has been the only official language of Iran for thousands of years. Even during Seljuk rule, Saffavid rule, Afsharid rule, Qajar rule etc. I like to keep it that way and dont encourage foreign influenced separatism.

This isn't 400 hundred years ago, "official" language was a lot looser in definition. Now state language means the language of all state institutions and education. Bilingualism within the state was common in the past, now only Persian can be used. There were no state schools in the past mandating only Persian to be used, whereas now entire generations of Turks are losing their native language because of it. It may not be a big a problem in provinces where virtually everyone is a Turk but in ethnically mixed provinces and districts it's showing. In places where Turks are a small minority it's clear within a couple of generations "persianisation" has replaced their native language. Half of Khalaj Turks under 25 speak Persian as a first language now and I dont even think any Bichaqchi even speak their turkish dialect anymore. This time last century they all did. So "official language" today is not the same thing as official language of the past. The only solution is recognition. It's common in the west. Here in the UK, Welsh is official and in Scotland Gaelic is official alongside English. It doesn't mean everyone has to speak 2 languages. In fact hardly anyone outside the Gaeltacht speaks Gaelic in Scotland. It just means those communities languages have official recognition and thus state institutions, like schools and local authorities, can provide state services in those languages. Nothing about separatism.

I don't have joy in Turkish soldiers being killed. I disliked Erdogan the day he started cooperating with ISIS and the rest of the terrorists. And it has nothing to do with Iran. In fact, Erdogan is the best thing that happened to Iran. He helped us withstand sanctions. His moronic policy has distanced Turkey from US and Israel, which is good for Iran.

That's how it comes across. Gloating over their deaths, all the persians and their supporters shitposting in multiple threads about it. What did you think would happen? It was a major attack irrespective of your views on Syria such actions are a major escalation.

I simply return the favor when Turkish members for no reason start attacking Iran, badmouthing our soldiers by calling them dogs etc. Wishing destruction upon us. Celebrating corona virus etc.

There are arseholes everywhere, doesn't justify stooping to that level.

 

[mangekyo]

This isn't 400 hundred years ago, "official" language was a lot looser in definition. Now state language means the language of all state institutions and education. Bilingualism within the state was common in the past, now only Persian can be used. There were no state schools in the past mandating only Persian to be used, whereas now entire generations of Turks are losing their native language because of it. It may not be a big a problem in provinces where virtually everyone is a Turk but in ethnically mixed provinces and districts it's showing. In places where Turks are a small minority it's clear within a couple of generations "persianisation" has replaced their native language. Half of Khalaj Turks under 25 speak Persian as a first language now and I dont even think any Bichaqchi even speak their turkish dialect anymore. This time last century they all did. So "official language" today is not the same thing as official language of the past. The only solution is recognition. It's common in the west. Here in the UK, Welsh is official and in Scotland Gaelic is official alongside English. It doesn't mean everyone has to speak 2 languages. In fact hardly anyone outside the Gaeltacht speaks Gaelic in Scotland. It just means those communities languages have official recognition and thus state institutions, like schools and local authorities, can provide state services in those languages. Nothing about separatism.

It's not that simple. If we start to officially recognize all languages in Iran, then we need to recognize Azeri, Balochi, Turkmen, Qashqai, Lor, Sorani, Kurmanji, Pahlavi, Arabic, Gilaki, Mazandarani, Armenian, Assyrian and probably more. Persian language is what unifies Iranians. It serves as a glue.

If Azeri becomes an official language, then there is no reason for most Azeris to even learn Persian. How should Iranians communicate with each other? In English?

Almost all Iranian Kurds who live here i Norway only learned Kurdish. If you ask them were they are from, they will deny they are Iranian, they will say they are from Kurdistan because they have no bond to Iran. Nothing that connects them to Iran.

Imagine an Ankarali travel to Diyarbakir, and he has to communicate in English with the locals because they don't understand Turkish. Isn't that sad and pathetic?

So if Azeri becomes the official language, then maybe 100-200 years from now, Iranian Azeris will stop recognizing themselves as Iranians and that will ultimately lead to separatism. In the end you have dozens of other different ethnicities who will want their own country and it will cause a huge civil war.

We have our own tv channels in Azeri, radio channels in Azeri. Azeri parliament members, head of IRGC a couple of years ago was Azeri. We have not one, but 2 provinces called Azerbaijan, thats more than any other ethnic group in Iran. Azeri is recognized as the official regional language in both provinces. We are not in any danger of losing our identities. Now if the government would demand people to speak Persian in those provinces, and or rename the provinces. Thats a completely different story.

 

[Glass]

Good developments with Israel, looking forward to see more cooperation in the east med

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

 

[Kiryu]

It's not that simple. If we start to officially recognize all languages in Iran, then we need to recognize Azeri, Balochi, Turkmen, Qashqai, Lor, Sorani, Kurmanji, Pahlavi, Arabic, Gilaki, Mazandarani, Armenian, Assyrian and probably more. Persian language is what unifies Iranians. It serves as a glue.

If Azeri becomes an official language, then there is no reason for most Azeris to even learn Persian. How should Iranians communicate with each other? In English?

Almost all Iranian Kurds who live here i Norway only learned Kurdish. If you ask them were they are from, they will deny they are Iranian, they will say they are from Kurdistan because they have no bond to Iran. Nothing that connects them to Iran.

Imagine an Ankarali travel to Diyarbakir, and he has to communicate in English with the locals because they don't understand Turkish. Isn't that sad and pathetic?

So if Azeri becomes the official language, then maybe 100-200 years from now, Iranian Azeris will stop recognizing themselves as Iranians and that will ultimately lead to separatism. In the end you have dozens of other different ethnicities who will want their own country and it will cause a huge civil war.

We have our own tv channels in Azeri, radio channels in Azeri. Azeri parliament members, head of IRGC a couple of years ago was Azeri. We have not one, but 2 provinces called Azerbaijan, thats more than any other ethnic group in Iran. Azeri is recognized as the official regional language in both provinces. We are not in any danger of losing our identities. Now if the government would demand people to speak Persian in those provinces, and or rename the provinces. Thats a completely different story.

Can't really compare the Kurds nationalism with the situation of Iranian Turks. The Turkic-Persian or Turk-Tajik synthesis goes back well over a thousand years. Iranian Turks are just as connected to the history of Iran and the Iranian state as Persians. The history of their clans, heritage and political association is Iranian, intertwined and not separate of it.
They are after the Persians the most widespread group in Iran living in ancestral territories in Azerbaijan, throughout the Zagros, Khurasan and along the Caspian. Just sounds like paranoia.
If neonationalist separatism is the reason for suppressing Turkic dialects in Iran then it will end up becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Anyway, Iran is on the verge of huge social and political change. We will see what the future brings. We are going off topic so I think this all that can be said about it. We can agree to disagree on this issue.

 

[Mucahit]

130M$ is not quite enough. We should definitely get closer. Both countries will benefit.

 

[-SINAN-]

Stil trying with the Ummah card?

 

[El Sidd]

Stil trying with the Ummah card?

No.

Israel card

 

[xenon54 out]

No.

Israel card

Well then, choke on it.

 

[El Sidd]

Well then, choke on it.

yeah the cake is dry