Turkey from sick man of EU to the envy of EU: any lessons for Pakistan ?

[Meengla]

Turkey and Pakistan are different countries with different histories.
In a nutshell, I would say that most of Pakistan's problems can be traced to Pakistan's un-winnable conflict with India over Kashmir. From there on, that conflict forced Pakistan to rely more on religion than it would have been otherwise, to join Western alliances to eventually Pakistan's own detriment, and to even rely on 'Non State Actors' who, whether on their own or by foreigners co-opting them, have caused a havoc inside Pakistan.

Also, to be noted, Turkey was more developed even in 1918 than Pakistan was 1947 in most ways. And Turkey also got a huge protection umbrella of NATO. If Pakistan was part of the NATO to ensure that the Indian threat was neutralized then Pakistan would have been less of a 'security state' then it became. I know there was Seato/Cento but those did not have the protection umbrella of a NATO.

Yes, over-religiosity is a problem. But that started after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan under General Zia ul Haq. There needs to be an undoing of that. Sadly, the undoing is perhaps too slow and/or too un-even.

 

[desioptimist]

What is it special that turkey has done, for EU to be envious?
It is still not at EU standard, as far as law,democracy and other institution goes.
And per capita income is lower than poland.

It is making good progress, but your post is based on brotherhood.

 

[janglijagga]

Why we have tendency to drag Islam into everything? Turkey is not progressing because it is more Islamic or more Secularist. It's simply because of people-friendly policies of Erdagan's government that has liberated common man economically. Islam and secularism co-exist with harmony in Turkey.

Just because Erdagan himself is more Islamic doesn't mean he's trying to convert the whole country; he only tried to give equal rights to everyone, especially the Islamists who's freedom was curbed since Attaturk. *sigh*

 

[Juice]

What do you care, bird? other than nukes falls into the hands of those poor children whos innocent parents ruthless murdered by your war machine?
you don't even have a 21st century, and yet lecturing on what Pakistan should do.

Lol, America has a 21st century, it is Yugoslavia that doesn't (Thanks to the US!)

 

[sab]

Tipu sultan was martyred in the battle field not in his bedroom. Regardless , everything has an end , for a new beginning. Bravery of my forefathers still warm my blood -- never forget we were kicked out not by the british but by our own traitors -- aka Mir Jaffar & Sadiq.

There were hundreds of Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist empire, but the thing we are discussing a good empire from modern perspective which can be comparable with the phenomenal transformation of Turkey under Mustafa Kamal. Sorry to say there is no such example except reign of Akber. Yes, Tipu Sultan is considered is considered very progressive ruler (may be his contact with the French helped him in doing so) , unfortunately he did not last long.

Before considering Turkey as an example , tell me how many in Pakistan is ready to accept the radical changes Muistafa Kamal Had introduced. Banning Purdah, introducing latin script for their language instead of Arabic, suppression of Orthodox Islamists, declaring Turkey a secular country, excluding education totally from religion...... He could do it because he was a national hero even before he became Prez of Turkey...

....How just dont have the national hero ...

(BTW we have learnt to glorify Siraj-Ud-Doula and curse Mir Jaffer, but we can not deny Siraj was a Bad ruler and a bad person , that promted many of his nobles to join with British...Hindu Muslim a like...)

 

[T-Faz]

Local ingredients, Turkish recipe – The Express Tribune​

In 2002, an economic collapse in Turkey led to elections and the removal of an unpopular government supported by an irresponsible military. The Turkish people brought the conservative Justice and Development (AK) Party into power. Despite several setbacks, chief among them threatening declarations from the military and the arrest and jailing of their leader, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the AK Party focused on transforming Turkey into a stable and progressive regional powerhouse.

On June 12, in Turkey’s general elections, the AK Party was elected to a third consecutive term as the single party in government, after it received 49.91 per cent of the vote. The party continues to remain popular and that is primarily due to its ability to turn Turkey’s fortunes around. Prior to 2002, for years the country had double-digit inflation. You bought a cup of tea for two million liras. Now, inflation is below that of the United Kingdom. In 2010, the Turkish economy grew at 8.9 per cent. This year, the growth figure is supposed to top that.

Political and social advancement has followed economic progress. The civilian-military tension exists to some extent, but the military now maintains its constitutional role while allowing the democratically elected government to govern. The situation did not reach this stage by blatant disregard and disrespect of the military, but rather after recognition of the uniquely influential roles of both the military and civilian leadership. Politicking motivated by self-interest is no longer an issue. With a single party government, decision-making is far easier. Tourism is flourishing — Turkey is showcasing itself to the world on a daily basis.

Ahmet Davutoglu, Turkey’s foreign minister, has also contributed to this turnaround. Historically, Turkey has had tense relations with its neighbours while it has submitted to the will of western powers. In the past decade, that has changed. Turkey has now adopted a much-heralded ‘zero problem policy’ under which it intends to have good relations with all of its neighbours. Ethnic conflict involving the Kurdish minority has been handled in a thoughtful and mature manner. Actionable intelligence coupled with political progress has severely reduced the risk of terror. Turkey’s past submission to western powers like the United States has now transformed into a positive relationship that is based on mutual understanding and benefit. Turkey approaches the United States on equal footing, as an ally, not a proxy.

The Turkish turnaround is not magic, but the result of skilled management. This progress is not false or fiction, it is all real. And it is possible to replicate. We now have a democracy and with that the chance to elect a government that can deliver. We have talented technocrats who can help turn our economy around. We have the natural beauty and hospitable population that tourism is built on. We need the political maturity and leadership exhibited by Turkish President Abdullah Gul and Prime Minister Erdogan. We need a zero problem neighbourhood based on a foreign policy that involves allied relationships. Terror needs to be controlled, intolerance rejected and internal conflict solved. None of this is impossible. We must not lose hope, as without it, we lose the impetus for change.

 

[secularbuster]

Why we have tendency to drag Islam into everything? Turkey is not progressing because it is more Islamic or more Secularist. It's simply because of people-friendly policies of Erdagan's government that has liberated common man economically. Islam and secularism co-exist with harmony in Turkey.

Just because Erdagan himself is more Islamic doesn't mean he's trying to convert the whole country; he only tried to give equal rights to everyone, especially the Islamists who's freedom was curbed since Attaturk. *sigh*

Under the secular politicians Turkey was facing economic ruin that's why there's this tendency to drag Islam into it. Let the world see the difference between secular policies and the Islamic policies.

 

[RescueRanger]

Lesson for Pakistan. Forget religion and focus on progress... Break free from your shackles of retardation.

 

[Riseup]

The important think is honesty and sympathy with the country, in the case of AK party the religion had influence in the positive manner, religion basically teaching honesty and sympathy with positive cause. It also teaches tolerance against ego that AK behaves in case of Army influence and AK literally handle it.

Their policy is simple think positive, teach positive and do positive.

And their educated team work great in the building of Government policies and implementation.
If I am looking in Pakistan even the religious parties are out of the soul of religious teaching they are too opportunist instead of honesty and sympathy, too far from even basic religious teachings in practical. They have not educated intellectuals like AK.

I think AK is gift of God for Turks.

May Allah provide us such a kind of intellectuals… And it could not happen until we Pakistanis not start thinking in this way. We as a nation think like honest and sympathize for each other and for our nation and land instead of opportunist.

I hope …

 

[secularbuster]

Lesson for Pakistan. Forget religion and focus on progress... Break free from your shackles of retardation.

Yeah, the Turks forgot religion for half a century and that's how they brought about their economic ruin and then the 'wicked' Islamists saved their day. With all their merits the secular politicians could not produce the miracle the Islamists have produced, isn't that strange? Talk about shackles of retardation, I think the Turks have just broken free from that.

 

[VelocuR]

Imran Khan and PTI have been giving the example of Turkey on all the interviews and talk shows. They are also have Justice in their party name. InshaAllah he will bring this change!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The answer with Turkey is simple , the country is focused on their economy. They do not appreciate American meddling , they like being allies but not at cost to their citizens.

Also Turkey has been a good country education wise and they have good system in place

Geographically Turkey is large as Saudi Arabia but Turkey being 90% blessed with green land vs Saudia which is only a desert so that shows you the wealth it has been blessed with from agricultural point of view.

Also Turkey has not been involved in wars its got its priorities stright

And not to mention their desire to transfer technology to Turkish engineers

 

[ice_man]

i dare say what i have heard alot of pakistanis say about turkey.......... "MUSLIM HUQUMAT HAI PEHLI BAAR TURKEY MEIN TARAKI TOU HOGII HII" they all believe Turkey is progressing only because they have a "righteous muslim leader"............so you see all the people who support islamic extremisim have found a way to support turkey's rise as an economic power!

 

[ephone]

The lesson is quite simple: curb your religious fanatics and focus your energy on economics development.

Turkey has become a European economic tiger from once what it was the sick man of Europe. A perfect example of a phoenix's rise from the ashes.

Now Turkey is on a very different footing , politically and strategically including its astonishing economic growth under the greatest ever leader after Kemal Ataturk - Rajab tayyab Erdogan.

Turkey has been an all time brotherly country and an all weather trustworthy friend for Pakistan & now for us its new status should be an "envy' and a 'role model' in many ways.

IMHO Turkey is a perfect example of how a country can create political stability and economic growth at the same time.

Since we share much more than friendship with Turkey , i am opening this debate to establish What Pakistan and Pakistanis can learn from Turkey and Turks.

Please have your say.


Regards:

 

[ovarel]

i dare say what i have heard alot of pakistanis say about turkey.......... "MUSLIM HUQUMAT HAI PEHLI BAAR TURKEY MEIN TARAKI TOU HOGII HII" they all believe Turkey is progressing only because they have a "righteous muslim leader"............so you see all the people who support islamic extremisim have found a way to support turkey's rise as an economic power!

The question is that are they less idiot than the ones blame islam for the country's current condition?

Its not about islamism vs secularism..
Turkey hasnt been colonized,so that its institutions could improve..Turkey's democratization process didnt start with Mustafa Kemal as some of the half-informed people claim..Our "Magna Carta" is the constitution of 1876..Yes,we had a healthier parliamentary system in 1876 than the Mustafa Kemal's term.

Im glad that you guys analyze Turkey and Pakistan but if you do it-at least to some extent-without your personal biases,it would be more helpful and constructive.

IMHO,the biggest role model is the "reason"..religion and secularism both doesnt mean much without it regarding state affairs..the other role models are the prototypes of unique internal and external dynamics.