Turkey criticizes German 'populism' after Merkel shift on EU membership

[Zibago]

Needless to add, I disagree with @SoulSpokesman , and also to some extent with you. I don't think that the citizens of India want to victimise the minorities in the vicious, pit-bull fashion of, say, our Yogi Chief Minister, or that unspeakable little pustule, Ananth Hegde; there are many others contending for bigot of the week positions.

Erdogan is not punishing the minorities he is just giving achay din to Turks a strong and stable Turkey

If you were to ask the silent majority, it is likely that the real consensual position that would emerge is that most Indians, specifically, most Indians from the majority religion, would like to see a country where Hindus need not be afraid; they lost their fear under the British, in spite of being subjected to a variety of insidious assaults on their identity and their self-confidence, hand in hand with the looting that reduced an economy with nearly a quarter of the world's economic activity to one with less than 5% of the action.

Keep religious argument aside what would a neutral person make of events in India?Where disastrous policies are being defended in name of desh bhakti?

Politics apart, there has also been a coarsening of public discourse. Perhaps a reasonable explanation of the boorish behaviour that we see of late lies in the tsunami of urbanisation that has taken place. I could ask you to look at the urban-rural divide in 1947, and to compare it with the figures relating to today; you can see, combining the percentages and the absolute numbers, that there has been a mind-numbing exodus from the villages to the towns, and to the cities. One reason behind the sclerotic condition of our urban spaces.

Dare i say the new Urbanized folks are more receptive of bhakt message than their rural counterparts?Urbanization actually accelerates their message as their discontent gathers momentum in the more politically aware dense jungles of the cities

Another reason emerges from the horrid expansion of our professional education at the cost of quality, and the even greater cost of a complete abandonment of humanities education.

Its not just the educational system that gets the blame but change in societal attitudes(perhaps old grudges that were set alight) which emboldened SOME vocal minorities

What we have now is a leavening of the former middle classes by a rural segment, trained in technology, insufficiently equipped to get jobs, but when in jobs, earning huge salaries compared to their parental generation.

They are the most unstable groups who are most receptive to a BAD message i will give you that i belong the second generation of that group so on that i do agree they are also folks how now slowly will form the majority in your country and will impose the system of their liking

A complication is that most of these people have had to earn their livings in direct proximity to supercilious, racist Europeans and Americans. The result has been to build into place, almost permanently, a huge inferiority complex, which has to find expression somewhere in an effort to seek parity.

They are all a small elite minority their core is the middle class which now wants to erase all symbols and statements they see as foreign and alien to their own and want their country to move the same way they did alteast that is what i can make from recent events from your country

These are the people who @Kaptaan, @PAKISTANFOREVER, @DESERTFIGHTER, @American Pakistani and others love to hate.

The guys they hate are here only to troll they are not interested in a conversation

they are the proper heirs to the Hindu heritage, and spread their distorted quasi-Hindu philosophy as the real thing.

Its exactly what the majority wants normally people in power dont give in to silly demands of their masses but what we are seeing in India is those demands are being entertained for political reasons they will only complicate things in the future as demands get more and more SILLY as i like to put it

They cannot deny, I think, that these changes are fortuitous, and promoted more by the demographic currents that I have mentioned, rather than a conscious winning back of their manifest destiny by a resurgent India, which is the model that they would like to promote.

Whether they were intentional or not is not an issue that should be looked in to but why are the masses so receptive of them and where is the limit?The dose required will get higher and higher and will reach a point where it will become lethal @SarthakGanguly was the first to say that and i totally agree with him on that unless the top dogs intervene i dont see this process reversing
Would the situation reach this point if masses were not receptive of this message?Why is that this phenomenon was able to wipe out even regional parties all across your country?Dont you see the game here its something that unites your country against the OTHERS now what remains to be seen here is what will increase the list of OTHERS or penalties for them

But currently my country is none of the above and it doesnt look like its going to change any soon or in the further future.

But that is what Erdogan wants or atleast what i make from his statements on various global and regional issues.And that is a reasonable ambition to have we can debate on the methods though

Its either that or forget the EU which we cant afford in our current economic situation(50% EU trade).

Am i the only one who doesnot see this escalating beyond oral wars and low key Kurdish separatism support?
Could it be its just tough talk by Germany before the election by Merkal,s party because her rivals are using Merkal,s perceived soft approach toward Erdogan and Trump as something that can be cashed politically?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Erdogan is not punishing the minorities he is just giving achay din to Turks a strong and stable Turkey

True of Erdogan; I was responding to his comparison to Modi. Where things are being differently here is that Achhe Din is an argument specific to those who had hoped to be upwardly mobile and didn't get there during UPA II. Behind it is a barely concealed - what the heck, unconcealed - punishment of the minorities. It is not that Erdogan doesn't have his own minorities to persecute; he's doing a great job on the Kurds and the Armenians; but the emphasis is on Achhe Din in Turkey, and multivariate in India.

Keep religious argument aside what would a neutral person make of events in India?Where disastrous policies are being defended in name of desh bhakti?

I'm not a neutral person, so this answer is biased and prejudiced against Modi.

What appears before us is that one gimmick after another, one stunt after another, is being thrust upon us in a sustained effort to con the masses into believing that this current government actually has some ideas.

The fact is, it has none.

 

[Zibago]

True of Erdogan; I was responding to his comparison to Modi. Where things are being differently here is that Achhe Din is an argument specific to those who had hoped to be upwardly mobile and didn't get there during UPA II.

Post Erdogan turkey is more stronger economically than pre Erdogan Turkey in him they see a brighter future it can be compared to those who support a certain figure in your country for his role in improving Gujrat,s economy (people are not so different after all )

It is not that Erdogan doesn't have his own minorities to persecute; he's doing a great job on the Kurds and the Armenians;

Armenians are a dime in dozen in Turkey as for the Kurds its a mix of religious extremist,separatist and certain ethnic ISSUES which plague the entire region inhabited by Kurds would someone else react differently to a toxic stew in Kurdish region with ISIS and separatists knocking at their doors?Doubt it if we take history into account

What appears before us is that one gimmick after another, one stunt after another, is being thrust upon us in a sustained effort to con the masses into believing that this current government actually has some ideas.

The support of the masses has emboldened him now he knows what kind of gimmicks work and what words calm the public the opposition in your country is weak all i see is him setting the trend for next 10 years atleast (unless some really strong opposition emerges which is not the case as of now)

 

[StraightShooter]

I do not understand Germany's policy of allowing Muslim immigrants into EU but this policy of kicking out Turkiye from EU talks makes perfect sense.

 

[bsruzm]

Attaturk

Learn how to spell his name correctly first.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Learn how to spell his name correctly first.

Apologies.

 

[bsruzm]

Apologies.

It is okay but many foreign people online do it like your example and then start lecturing Turkish people about him which is funny but I personally don't like it.

 

[Joe Shearer]

It is okay but many foreign people online do it like your example and then start lecturing Turkish people about him which is funny but I personally don't like it.

Actually, that was the only occasion where there was a mis-spelling; if you look through my responses, you will find the correct spelling in every case but that. Incidentally I am calling it the correct spelling although my keyboard doesn't do an umlaut.

 

[bsruzm]

Actually, that was the only occasion where there was a mis-spelling; if you look through my responses, you will find the correct spelling in every case but that. Incidentally I am calling it the correct spelling although my keyboard doesn't do an umlaut.

It's okay. I explained my reason.

 

[TurkeyForever]

turkics don't belong in europe. turkics don't belong among asians. turkics don't belong to the arab world. those filthy, savage, rootless race belong nowhere and deserve no home. by blood turkics found within modern turk borders should be shot for being enemies to mankind; by blood turkics found without should be hanged for subversion to rightfully constituted states that have thus far too leniently sheltered them and given them lives.

We the Turks are filthy, savage, rootless race and we deserve no home?

Well my chinese friend at least it's better than being the slave work force of USA and having the smallest penis on earth.

Remember next time you're with a girl = She is faking it!

 

[Saho]

Why is the Turkish govt still talking about wanting to join the EU and gets butthurts when Europe says no? They will never join a Judeo-Christian union.

Complete different culture, religion, history, people etc.

 

[TurkeyForever]

Why is the Turkish govt still talking about wanting to join the EU and gets butthurts when Europe says no? They will never join a Judeo-Christian union.

Complete different culture, religion, history, people etc.

Have you ever been to Turkey?

Our mentality is very western while the arab mentality is very foreign and different to our.

As for culture, yes we are rich in culture just like Italy is richest in culture in the EU right now.
Especially food, you could say culture wise Italy and Greece are the closest to Turkey as both have different cultures than northern/western Europeans.

Culture isn't just UK and Germany, there is more to culture than sausages and english tea.

I think the main issue is "religion", if Turkey was christian EU countries would have no problem with us.

Turkey isn't "butthurt" as you put it, go research all the current agreements and partnerships between Turkey and EU already in place.

Turkey is in a sense already part of the EU in everything except on paper.

Trade agreements, legal agreements, humanitarian agreements and what not.
We are no different than a country already in the EU.

But we are richer and more developed than many countries in the EU already.

This is all kind of funny considering the fact that christianity is a middle eastern religion.

Do we go around saying "Europeans can't invent their own religion"?

No we don't

Update:
EU foreign policy Chief Federica Mogherini confirmed Monday that Turkey's European Union membership accession talks will continue following German Chancellor Angela Merkel and her center-left rival Martin Schulz's clash over Turkey's EU bid.

Angela is just barking and using Turkey as a tool for the german elections.

https://www.dailysabah.com/eu-affai...-accession-talks-will-continue-mogherini-says

We have a famous saying in Turkey:
"A dog that barks won't bite"

 

[ValerioAurelius]

We the Turks are filthy, savage, rootless race and we deserve no home?

Well my chinese friend at least it's better than being the slave work force of USA and having the smallest penis on earth.

Remember next time you're with a girl = She is faking it!

Italy is bigger than turkey as your map shows

Have you ever been to Turkey?

Our mentality is very western while the arab mentality is very foreign and different to our.

As for culture, yes we are rich in culture just like Italy is richest in culture in the EU right now.
Especially food, you could say culture wise Italy and Greece are the closest to Turkey as both have different cultures than northern/western Europeans.

Culture isn't just UK and Germany, there is more to culture than sausages and english tea.

I think the main issue is "religion", if Turkey was christian EU countries would have no problem with us.

Turkey isn't "butthurt" as you put it, go research all the current agreements and partnerships between Turkey and EU already in place.

Turkey is in a sense already part of the EU in everything except on paper.

Trade agreements, legal agreements, humanitarian agreements and what not.
We are no different than a country already in the EU.

But we are richer and more developed than many countries in the EU already.

This is all kind of funny considering the fact that christianity is a middle eastern religion.

Do we go around saying "Europeans can't invent their own religion"?

No we don't

Update:
EU foreign policy Chief Federica Mogherini confirmed Monday that Turkey's European Union membership accession talks will continue following German Chancellor Angela Merkel and her center-left rival Martin Schulz's clash over Turkey's EU bid.

Angela is just barking and using Turkey as a tool for the german elections.

https://www.dailysabah.com/eu-affai...-accession-talks-will-continue-mogherini-says

We have a famous saying in Turkey:
"A dog that barks won't bite"

That saying fits perfectly for Erdogan. He barks alot, but usually without backup.

On a sidenote, Christianity is a european religion. The roman catholic church mixed evrything in the faith that the empire had to offer.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I am trying to be diplomatic in my statement but best analogy for what Turkey wants is what citizens of your country want @Joe Shearer just change religions and rivals

A strong Turkey that is assertive in the region and has a strong and stable govt and economy that is what they want i have actually felt that over the last few years the support for EU membership has declined somewhat @HAKIKAT
Agree or disagree?

You are incorrect in equating the experience of Islam in Turkey and Dharma in India.
In Turkey Islamic faith was never under attack. Except for the past few decades when it was sidelined... But even that did not lead to forced conversions, rapes, partition related deaths, destroyed places of worship, partition of Turkey itself etc. India is a different when compared to Turkey.

Erdogan is not punishing the minorities he is just giving achay din to Turks a strong and stable Turkey

Keep religious argument aside what would a neutral person make of events in India?Where disastrous policies are being defended in name of desh bhakti?

Dare i say the new Urbanized folks are more receptive of bhakt message than their rural counterparts?Urbanization actually accelerates their message as their discontent gathers momentum in the more politically aware dense jungles of the cities

Its not just the educational system that gets the blame but change in societal attitudes(perhaps old grudges that were set alight) which emboldened SOME vocal minorities

They are the most unstable groups who are most receptive to a BAD message i will give you that i belong the second generation of that group so on that i do agree they are also folks how now slowly will form the majority in your country and will impose the system of their liking

They are all a small elite minority their core is the middle class which now wants to erase all symbols and statements they see as foreign and alien to their own and want their country to move the same way they did alteast that is what i can make from recent events from your country


The guys they hate are here only to troll they are not interested in a conversation

Its exactly what the majority wants normally people in power dont give in to silly demands of their masses but what we are seeing in India is those demands are being entertained for political reasons they will only complicate things in the future as demands get more and more SILLY as i like to put it

Whether they were intentional or not is not an issue that should be looked in to but why are the masses so receptive of them and where is the limit?The dose required will get higher and higher and will reach a point where it will become lethal @SarthakGanguly was the first to say that and i totally agree with him on that unless the top dogs intervene i dont see this process reversing
Would the situation reach this point if masses were not receptive of this message?Why is that this phenomenon was able to wipe out even regional parties all across your country?Dont you see the game here its something that unites your country against the OTHERS now what remains to be seen here is what will increase the list of OTHERS or penalties for them

But that is what Erdogan wants or atleast what i make from his statements on various global and regional issues.And that is a reasonable ambition to have we can debate on the methods though

Am i the only one who doesnot see this escalating beyond oral wars and low key Kurdish separatism support?
Could it be its just tough talk by Germany before the election by Merkal,s party because her rivals are using Merkal,s perceived soft approach toward Erdogan and Trump as something that can be cashed politically?

The rural Urban divide with regards to Hindutva is a myth.
The urban folk are actually less of a fan percentage wise than their rural counterparts. The mobilizations happen mostly in the rural areas. The communist ideology on the other hand hada stronger mooring in the urban elites.
Not Hindutva.

Turkey criticizes German 'populism' after Merkel shift on EU membership


FILE PHOTO: German Chancellor Angela Merkel meets Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on the eve of the G-20 summit in Hamburg, Germany, July 6, 2017. REUTERS/Michael Kappeler,POOL
Reuters Staff

2 MIN READ

ANKARA (Reuters) - A spokesman for Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan accused German politicians on Monday of indulging in populism after Chancellor Angela Merkel said she would seek an end to Ankara’s European Union membership talks.

Merkel, seeking a fourth term in office in Germany’s Sept. 24 election, said in a debate on Sunday it was clear that Turkey should not join the European Union, and that she would talk to other EU leaders about ending its stalled accession process.

“It is not a coincidence that our president Erdogan was the main topic of the debate,” Erdogan’s spokesman Ibrahim Kalin tweeted, criticizing what he described as mainstream German politicians’ “indulgence in populism”.

“Germany and Europe’s attacks on Turkey/Erdogan, by ignoring essential and urgent problems, are reflections of the narrowing of their horizons,” he said.

“We hope that the problematic atmosphere that made Turkish-German relations the victim of this narrow political horizon will end”.

Turkey’s ties with Germany and several other EU states have deteriorated sharply this year. Points of dispute have included the barring of Turkish politicians from holding campaign rallies in EU countries ahead of an April referendum, and concerns over the powers granted to Erdogan in the closely fought plebiscite.

Turkey has also restricted access for German parliamentarians seeking to visit German troops at the Incirlik air base in southern Turkey, leading Berlin to announce it was moving those forces out of Turkey. It has also detained several German nationals, including journalist Deniz Yucel.

Turkey says it has sent Germany an extradition request for one of the main suspects it says was behind an attempted military coup in July 2016. More than 50,000 people have been arrested and 150,000 have been suspended or sacked in a security crackdown since the failed putsch.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...r-merkel-shift-on-eu-membership-idUSKCN1BF0XE

Turkey had been spurned by Europe before. She (with popular support) has decided to go back to where she thinks she belongs to.
That said - Today's Turkey is far too Islamic to be a part of Europe. In the 40s, 50s till the 80s - perhaps they did have a good claim to membership. Not anymore.

 

[SMS Derfflinger]

@Zibago
Honestly, I don`t know which debate you had seen, but the one I have seen, Merkel DIDN`T say nothing about to cancel the EU-membeship talks.
O-tone
Merkel: Yes, a tougher approach without saying what she want to do, ergo nothing.
Schultz: As a chancellor i would cancel the talk about the membership.
Merkel: Germany isn`t alone in the EU.
Schultz: You don`t want to do anything?
Merkel: I want to solve this diplomatically, we have to free the German citizens...blahblah.
Merkel: it`s up to the Turkey to decide, if they want to abort the negotiations.

Erdogan has Merkel by her balls and she knows it, if he decides to open the border....uii, even Schultz, the masterblaster of talking didn`t want to cancel the refugee pact with the Turkey, show more balls against Turkey...what a joke...

On the other side is it the pure joke to be accused by the Turkey of populism, ther aftermath of the debate is more funny than the debate itself.
Moreover that if someone is thinking he could make some points by Erdogan bashing is amusing. If there weren`t some Germans in turkish jails, no one would care about this in the campaign.
Btw, that is the next funny thing, this Germans in the jails have all the dual citizenship and if i have it right in the mind, if someone cross the Turkish border, the Turkish citizenship will automatically enter into force so therefore a are only Turks in the jails, this is also covered by international law, so by law this are Turkish citizens accused of criminal acts.
So what shall we do...to interfere in ther internal affairs of a sovereign countary again? I don`t think so.