Turkey could join Shanghai bloc: President Erdoğan

[T-123456]

We dont need your best wishes, just national security. NATO is ...ing place no need to stay there more. Shanghai five very good alternative for our national interest, no need dummy preach of anyone.

Be respectful.

 

[brokk]

Lool So according to you Russia and it's proxies in Syria are on the same Side then? Lol
Plus, you really believe every partners or allies should be on the same page or have the same interests at all times? Lol. If that was the case , then there will be no E.U since many members countries have conflict of interests and different v among themselves , In fact even U.K and U.S won't be allies since we don't always agree on everything(e.g joining AIIB etc). That doesn't means we can't agree to be allies or partners since overall we still have common interests and need each other
You people seem to believe every country should toe your line or something. This is impossible even among the most closest of allies.

You need to calm down an look at the night picture, being emotional won't help one bit. Afterall, why is it that you people don't ask yourselves why even after over half a century your leaders haven't left NATO? Afterall, NATO membership is not mandatory, any country is free to leave at any time they desire. Yet Turkey is still in and has no intention of leaving anytime soon.
Without NATO for example you people really believe Russia would have stayed idle after you shot down their fighter jets killing their pilot in Syria recently? Lol Russia would have eaten Turkey alive. It's because of NATO they couldn't retaliate.If it was any other Non NATO country, Russia would have taught them a good lesson. So you people should calm down and think rationally.

Nope, partners and allies don't need to be on the same page for everything, however; at the very least,

- they need to be NOT supporting groups that are either themselves engaged in terrorist activities or have organic ties to terrorist groups active within the territories of an ally. Heck take a look at SIPRI, 2015 yearbook, mind you humanitarian aid in comparison dropped is minuscule (..aid as in food, water, shelter) but who gives a damn right?

- they need to be NOT destroying economic partners of an ally, on false claims and pretenses... (The Iraq war, Syrian war... etc. )

- there should be some understanding on boundaries of national interests, and limits to kindergarten level brat-like behaviors and tantrums when national interests aren't met.. from the usage of an ally as material for internal propaganda and politics, to utterly false claims.

.... and so on, as for the rest you might want to see what country I am from first as my country is the direct opposition of NATO lol. As for Turkey, well it has to decide for itself will it continue with Atlanticists and be forced to splinter into small parts, or will it decide to go towards some form of non-racist/nationalistic internationalism, which is the subject of this whole discussion...

 

[Baybars Han]

Lool So according to you Russia and it's proxies in Syria are on the same Side then? Lol
Plus, you really believe every partners or allies should be on the same page or have the same interests at all times? Lol. If that was the case , then there will be no E.U since many members countries have conflict of interests and different v among themselves , In fact even U.K and U.S won't be allies since we don't always agree on everything(e.g joining AIIB etc). That doesn't means we can't agree to be allies or partners since overall we still have common interests and need each other
You people seem to believe every country should toe your line or something. This is impossible even among the most closest of allies.

You need to calm down an look at the night picture, being emotional won't help one bit. Afterall, why is it that you people don't ask yourselves why even after over half a century your leaders haven't left NATO? Afterall, NATO membership is not mandatory, any country is free to leave at any time they desire. Yet Turkey is still in and has no intention of leaving anytime soon.
Without NATO for example you people really believe Russia would have stayed idle after you shot down their fighter jets killing their pilot in Syria recently? Lol Russia would have eaten Turkey alive. It's because of NATO they couldn't retaliate.If it was any other Non NATO country, Russia would have taught them a good lesson. So you people should calm down and think rationally.

Not because of NATO they didn't retaliate entirely. They played clever and got an apology in the end.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Nope, partners and allies don't need to be on the same page for everything, however; at the very least,

- they need to be NOT supporting groups that are either themselves engaged in terrorist activities or have organic ties to terrorist groups active within the territories of an ally. Heck take a look at SIPRI, 2015 yearbook, mind you humanitarian aid in comparison dropped is minuscule (..aid as in food, water, shelter) but who gives a damn right?

- they need to be NOT destroying economic partners of an ally, on false claims and pretenses... (The Iraq war, Syrian war... etc. )

- there should be some understanding on boundaries of national interests, and limits to kindergarten level brat-like behaviors and tantrums when national interests aren't met.. from the usage of an ally as material for internal propaganda and politics, to utterly false claims.

.... and so on, as for the rest you might want to see what country I am from first as my country is the direct opposition of NATO lol. As for Turkey, well it has to decide for itself will it continue with Atlanticists and be forced to splinter into small parts, or will it decide to go towards some form of non-racist/nationalistic internationalism, which is the subject of this whole discussion...

Can we trust the Chinese? Who;s to say they won't help terrorists like our good American/Western allies do now? What makes you think they won't backstab us?, i'd rather we just go it alone.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Not because of NATO they didn't retaliate entirely. They played clever and got an apology in the end.

Lol You think if Turkey was alone and not in NATO Russia would have remain idle an not retaliate? Lol
Russia didn't retaliate simply because they didn't want to get into any confrontation with NATO, plus there are Western NATO troops present in Turkey. So the didn't want to risk a greater confrontation , they were worried about the uncertainty of any retaliation getting into something bigger. So the stakes were simply too high, reason cool heads prevailed in Moscow.
If Turkey was not in NATO and was a normal country like say Iran, Egypt with no powerful alliance bloc , then believe me things would have played out very differently for Turkey.

 

[brokk]

Can we trust the Chinese? Who;s to say they won't help terrorists like our good American/Western allies do now? What makes you think they won't backstab us?, i'd rather we just go it alone.

Well, trust is something mutual, why should Russia, and China trust Turkey? Which has been an ally of their enemy for over 50 years. The answer in my view, simple, mutual national interests aren't contradicting each others, and each country mentioned hasn't really pretended being something that it wasn't against the other.

As for going alone, countries in the modern world take part in a variety of pacts, agreements this is for benefit of economy, market and protection.

The EU will probably take in every country but Russia, and Turkey. The US wants to secure oil and will destroy its own mother for it... so not many options.

 

[Attila the Hun]

Well, trust is something mutual, why should Russia, and China trust Turkey? Which has been an ally of their enemy for over 50 years. The answer in my view, simple, mutual national interests aren't contradicting each others, and each country mentioned hasn't really pretended being something that it wasn't against the other.

As for going alone, countries in the modern world take part in a variety of pacts, agreements this is for benefit of economy, market and protection.

The EU will probably take in every country but Russia, and Turkey. The US wants to secure oil and will destroy its own mother for it... so not many options.

Russia is not really a friend of Turkey, but then again, who is?
China wouldn't be where they are without American help...lets be honest here.
Russia would be NAZI if it wasn't for Americans.
I suppose we shouldn't trust these countries too?

I am only messing with you buddy, you are right

Lol You think if Turkey was alone and not in NATO Russia would have remain idle an not retaliate? Lol
Russia didn't retaliate simply because they didn't want to get into any confrontation with NATO, plus there are Western NATO troops present in Turkey. So the didn't want to risk a greater confrontation , they were worried about the uncertainty of any retaliation getting into something bigger. So the stakes were simply too high, reason cool heads prevailed in Moscow.
If Turkey was not in NATO and was a normal country like say Iran, Egypt with no powerful alliance bloc , then believe me things would have played out very differently for Turkey.

Russia would've done what exactly if we weren't in NATO?

 

[-SINAN-]

Lol You think if Turkey was alone and not in NATO Russia would have remain idle an not retaliate? Lol
Russia didn't retaliate simply because they didn't want to get into any confrontation with NATO, plus there are Western NATO troops present in Turkey. So the didn't want to risk a greater confrontation , they were worried about the uncertainty of any retaliation getting into something bigger. So the stakes were simply too high, reason cool heads prevailed in Moscow.
If Turkey was not in NATO and was a normal country like say Iran, Egypt with no powerful alliance bloc , then believe me things would have played out very differently for Turkey.

Although i agree the general concept of your post, there are things that i do not agree.

I don't think, even if we had been out of NATO, Russia would seek a confrontation with Turkey.

Let's say, Russia wanted to retaliate but couldn't do so because of the NATO....what was holding them to cut the natural gas supply to Turkey ? They could do serious damage to Turkey as we are buying nearly our %80 of our Natural Gas from Russia.

My best guess is, they would retaliate with shooting one or two of our aircraft but wouldn't want to escalate any more further from that.

Apart from that.....i think, one way or another, some day Russians will shoot an aircraft of ours. They still hunt the Chechen rebels whom stopped fighting 10 years ago, settled in Turkey, had wives and kids. They don't let things go. It may be 1 year or 1 decade later but i'm certain that they will avenge.

Edit: They managed to lower our dependency on Russian natural gas to %58.

 

[BARS]

This is actually how skeptical Russians think about Turkey. Just watch it.

 

[Timur]

Thing is, we have no choice but to get on with our Christian neighbours. weather we like it or not, they are there to stay.
We cannot just cut all ties with them and join this SCO , we still depend on European investment and tourists.
Even a small country like Holland invests a lot in Turkiye.

so china is cutting all ties when they are in sco? did russia cut all ties ? who said to cut ties? there is no need to cut ties but to stop that christian club joining idiotic thing.. stop trying to be part of them and having than big influence in their christian club.. and some pressure and fear will go.. but the romans will never drop their enmity against turks and islam

but as I said all times we need more ties with korea, pakistan, japan, china, brasilia kanada india and so on.. if we will join sco and concentrate on that thing than this will be a mistake too

 

[xenon54 out]

there is no need to cut ties but to stop that christian club joining idiotic thing

This might happen sooner than you think, in two days European parliament is gonna vote whether to freeze negotiations or not, it will probably be voted yes which is gonna change a lot.

The whole thing is a farce anyway, so instead of freezing they should vote to abandon the negotiations completely and end this circus once for all.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Russia would've done what exactly if we weren't in NATO?

Until Turkey gets out of NATO , then you wouldn't know what Russia would have done differently. Turkey can always try and see for itself.

Although i agree the general concept of your post, there are things that i do not agree.

I don't think, even if we had been out of NATO, Russia would seek a confrontation with Turkey.

Let's say, Russia wanted to retaliate but couldn't do so because of the NATO....what was holding them to cut the natural gas supply to Turkey ? They could do serious damage to Turkey as we are buying nearly our %80 of our Natural Gas from Russia.

My best guess is, they would retaliate with shooting one or two of our aircraft but wouldn't want to escalate any more further from that.

Apart from that.....i think, one way or another, some day Russians will shoot an aircraft of ours. They still hunt the Chechen rebels whom stopped fighting 10 years ago, settled in Turkey, had wives and kids. They don't let things go. It may be 1 year or 1 decade later but i'm certain that they will avenge.

Edit: They managed to lower our dependency on Russian natural gas to %58.

Russia doesn't need to seek confrontation with Turkey(or whatever that means). Russia would have simply retaliated in kind, probably destroying all Turkish aircrafts based near the border with Syria. We all know how quick things can escalate quickly giving such chaotic scenario. So the rest is left for the main actors to decide what would have happened next. It never came to this point precisely because Turkey is a NATO member, and so attacking it would have carried FARRRRRRRR more risk for Russia than attacking a lonely weaker Turkey.

Imagine a Turkey which is out of NATO and hostile to the West, it won't even have the necessary spares/equipment(which are almost exclusively from western countries) to even sustain any war whatsoever with a large power like Russia and Russia will be well aware of that.

So it would have been FARRRR easier for Russia to target a lonely vulnerable Turkey than otherwise. Same as it was more easie for the U.S/UK to target a lonely vulnerable Iraq(even during the first gulf war).

As for Cutting gas supplies to Turkey, they dont necessarily need to do that, since they get alot of money from it anyway. Even with Ukraine Russia still delivers alot of oil to them, despite carving out the country and fighting an indirect proxy war with the Ukrainian government. Lol Realpolitik I guess.

 

[-SINAN-]

As for Cutting gas supplies to Turkey, they dont necessarily need to do that, since they get alot of money from it anyway. Even with Ukraine Russia still delivers alot of oil to them, despite carving out the country and fighting an indirect proxy war with the Ukrainian government. Lol Realpolitik I guess.

Yeap, you made my point. Yet, you entirely disregarded realpolitik in the rest of your post and draw a very dramatic scenario.

Russia doesn't need to seek confrontation with Turkey(or whatever that means). Russia would have simply retaliated in kind, probably destroying all Turkish aircrafts based near the border with Syria. We all know how quick things can escalate quickly giving such chaotic scenario. So the rest is left for the main actors to decide what would have happened next. It never came to this point precisely because Turkey is a NATO member, and so attacking it would have carried FARRRRRRRR more risk for Russia than attacking a lonely weaker Turkey.

Imagine a Turkey which is out of NATO and hostile to the West, it won't even have the necessary spares/equipment(which are almost exclusively from western countries) to even sustain any war whatsoever with a large power like Russia and Russia will be well aware of that.

So it would have been FARRRR easier for Russia to target a lonely vulnerable Turkey than otherwise. Same as it was more easie for the U.S/UK to target a lonely vulnerable Iraq(even during the first gulf war).

 

[Baybars Han]

Until Turkey gets out of NATO , then you wouldn't know what Russia would have done differently. Turkey can always try and see for itself.


Russia doesn't need to seek confrontation with Turkey(or whatever that means). Russia would have simply retaliated in kind, probably destroying all Turkish aircrafts based near the border with Syria. We all know how quick things can escalate quickly giving such chaotic scenario. So the rest is left for the main actors to decide what would have happened next. It never came to this point precisely because Turkey is a NATO member, and so attacking it would have carried FARRRRRRRR more risk for Russia than attacking a lonely weaker Turkey.

Imagine a Turkey which is out of NATO and hostile to the West, it won't even have the necessary spares/equipment(which are almost exclusively from western countries) to even sustain any war whatsoever with a large power like Russia and Russia will be well aware of that.

So it would have been FARRRR easier for Russia to target a lonely vulnerable Turkey than otherwise. Same as it was more easie for the U.S/UK to target a lonely vulnerable Iraq(even during the first gulf war).

As for Cutting gas supplies to Turkey, they dont necessarily need to do that, since they get alot of money from it anyway. Even with Ukraine Russia still delivers alot of oil to them, despite carving out the country and fighting an indirect proxy war with the Ukrainian government. Lol Realpolitik I guess.

How can Russia destroy all aircraft bases near Syria? Please explain. Technically? That is a war declaration and they can't really do that practically. Cruise missiles is a possibility. What is the closest to Syria, not sure but Diyarbakır air base comes to mind.

What Russia would of done is probably shoot any Turkish aircraft that even goes close to Syria with s400s without warning.

 

[Oublious]

Yeap, you made my point. Yet, you entirely disregarded realpolitik in the rest of your post and draw a very dramatic scenario.

Lol realpolitics...