Turkey Azerbayjan border

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

@Islamic faith&Secularism

Part of empires turk claim (propaganda).

some of these states that turks claim were not turkic. And many got persianized.
1. Xiongnu: The newest theories and research

The identity of the ethnic core of Xiongnu has been a subject of varied hypotheses, because only a few words, mainly titles and personal names, were preserved in the Chinese sources. Proposals by scholars include Turkic, Mongolic, Yeniseian,[2][3]Tocharian, Iranian,[4][5] andUralic.[6]

The Turkologist Gerhard Doerfer has denied any possibility of a relationship between the Xiongnu language and any other known language and rejected in the strongest terms any connection with Turkish or Mongolian.[60]

Among scholars who proposed an Iranic origin for the Xiongnu are H.W. Bailey (1985, Altaic and Iranian, which has not been followed)[49][50] and János Harmatta (1999), who believes that the royal tribes and kings (shan-yü) of the Xiongnu bore Iranian names, which can be explained from an Iranian language of the Saka type.[51] Jankowski concurs.[5]However J. Paul bears in mind that not all Xiongnu names of Saka type were Iranian, but instead of non-Iranian origin

2. Southern Xiongnu (see 1)

3. Hephtalites: Probably Iranian

There are several theories regarding the origins of the White Huns, with the Iranian[18][19][20] and Turkic[21][22] theories being the most prominent.

For many years, scholars suggested that they were of Turkic stock,[22] and it seems likely that at least some groups amongst the Hephthalites wereTurkic-speakers.[21] In 1959, Kazuo Enoki proposed that the Hephthalites were probably Indo-European (East) Iranians as some sources indicated that they were originally from Bactria, which is known to have been inhabited by Indo-Iranian people in antiquity.[11] Richard Frye is cautiously accepting of Enoki's hypothesis, while at the same time stressing that the Hephthalites "were probably a mixed horde".[23] More recently Xavier Tremblay's detailed examination of surviving Hephthalite personal names has indicated that Enoki's hypothesis that they were East Iranian may well be correct, but the matter remains unresolved in academic circles.[12]

4. Timurid dynasty: mongol-Barlas origin
5. Golden hord: Mongol
6. Mughals: chaghatai mongol origin

Also first try to connect azerbayjan with Turkey Armenia is between them, no border connection. Secondly stop Uzbeks being massacred by kyrgiz, go and see the massacres in youtube.

 

[Islamic faith&Secularism]

My trust in Iranian education system is growing day by day when i see such people like you.

 

[haman10]

My trust in Iranian education system is growing day by day when i see such people like you.

pifft . says the guy who's name is more than stupid

islamic secularism laughed my *** off to that .

 

[ASQ-1918]

Since the other thread were closed, let me post here.

Novruz is celebrated among all of Central Asian Turkic nations, and now you come up with how they are celebrated, running out of petty arguments. And I did not skip your genetic arguments, I m saying they are not reliable, very very little, their background is politic. Nothing to draw conclusions from.

Look at what you make of it while you post random quotes no question asked all day along. The quote is very clear, that was the number that local Turks there could produce out of the households (I did not meant as military strenght of an empire, state orvany military organization). A very large number. There are further quotes about numerous tents in Arran and Mughan, and description of Mughan as a Turkmen region. This was still early stage of Turkic migrations. Do you get this or not, EARLIER STAGE.

Lastly, I mentioned about the nomadic traditions of Azerbaijanis , which still exist in Iran, and the yurt tents pecuilar to Azerbaijanis in the region. As well Turkic tribe-clan affiliations. This is far more relevant than your retarded arguments (they are not arguments in first place).

 

[ASQ-1918]

Btw, opening this random thread shows what kind of attention seeker and troll you are. I hope you get adequate suspension. And you are bringing the level to the bottom, no possible way of arguing, your only weapon is trolling.

Ps, sorry for grammer errors, I'm using mobile.

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

Btw, opening this random thread shows what kind of attention seeker and troll you are. I hope you get adequate suspension. And you are bringing the level to the bottom, no possible way of arguing, your only weapon is trolling.

Ps, sorry for grammer errors, I'm using mobile.

I was responding to @Islamic faith&Secularism then suddenly the topic was closed Caucausian-Iranic turkified bro!

Since the other thread were closed, let me post here.

Novruz is celebrated among all of Central Asian Turkic nations, and now you come up with how they are celebrated, running out of petty arguments. And I did not skip your genetic arguments, I m saying they are not reliable, very very little, their background is politic. Nothing to draw conclusions from.

Look at what you make of it while you post random quotes no question asked all day along. The quote is very clear, that was the number that local Turks there could produce out of the households (I did not meant as military strenght of an empire, state orvany military organization). A very large number. There are further quotes about numerous tents in Arran and Mughan, and description of Mughan as a Turkmen region. This was still early stage of Turkic migrations. Do you get this or not, EARLIER STAGE.

Lastly, I mentioned about the nomadic traditions of Azerbaijanis , which still exist in Iran, and the yurt tents pecuilar to Azerbaijanis in the region. As well Turkic tribe-clan affiliations. This is far more relevant than your retarded arguments (they are not arguments in first place).

First of all nowhere among turkics is nowruz celebrated like Azeris which looks same as persian nowruz. That says much because of nowruz is not something for the elite, but for all people and generation by generation this cultural event is passed on.

So you are more expert than these people.. uhmm ok.
And according to your own theory, if safavids were turks because they settled in Azerbaijan and mixed there, then Ghazvanids were Persians since Mahmud of ghazna's mother was Persian.

I can quote you 100 sources about language of that region, and you give different sources about the turkish tents. If they were so much and many their trace would be in the genetics of that region, but actually the opposite is true. For example hazaras have strong mongol futures, why not the azeris?

Narrated Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Turks; people with small eyes, red faces, and flat noses. Their faces will look like shields coated with leather. The Hour will not be established till you fight with people whose shoes are made of hair."

[Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 179]

 

[ASQ-1918]

Like everything you say, that is a gross exaggeration and absolutely meaningless. Of course Turkic tribes were newcomers during that period, hence your quotes are meaningless. And what I say is something carried on to this day, there is Shahsevens for you to see. In 19th century, there were 200 thousand Azerbaijani nomads in Caucasus, and more in Iran. When Reza Shah sat on throne, 30% of Iran were nomadic, and you know that more than 80 percent of Irans population were and are made up of Fars and Azerbaijani Turks (Azerbaijanis usually beetween 15 and 20 percentage) hence its clear where those percentages belong to. With exception of cities like Tabriz, you would have nomads all over the place, and especially Arasbaran and Mughan, where today has a nomadic population in tens of thousands despite forcefull settlement policies of Reza Shah.

Oghuz tribes nn Iran had little to no "Asiatic" complexion (at least during the late period), was Nadir Shah or Qajars such? They had undisputed Turkic-Oghuz roots. There can be several reasons, the western Oghuz only had slight "Asian" complexion, and such a long presence in the region would also lead to mix with non-Turks obviously. I guess you have no objection about Turkic-Oghuz roots of Nadir Shah AFSHAR (Afshars = one of main 24 Oghuz tribes).

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

This is original oghuz turk, Seljuq Bey

I think this in combination with genetic tests is really strong argument for that middle east had insignificant/low oghuz Turk population. The face is clearly mongoloid.

Compare it to statue/face of sassanid and parthian kings.

Do Iranian Azeris look like the seljuq or sassanid and parthians?

Also lets not forget the Goktukrs (one of oldest and most ancient turkics)

@al-Hasani @ResurgentIran @doritos @Islamic faith&Secularism @haman10 @kouroshkourosh @F117 @JEskandari @rmi5 @dhul-aktaf
@Abii @Syrian Lion @S00R3NA

 

[ASQ-1918]

Like a coward, you ignore my points again. Where did such a significant amount of nomads come from if there was such a low population as you suggest? Again, there is no extensive research to draw such conclusions from.

And care to explain the appereance of Nadir Shah to me. I brought you a relevant example in form of Nadir Shah and Qajar kings, but like a troll you are, come with irrelevant examples.

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

Like a coward, you ignore my points again. Where did such a significant amount of nomads come from if there was such a low population as you suggest? Again, there is no extensive research to draw such conclusions.

And care to explain the appereance of Nadir Shah to me. I brought you a relevant example in form of Nadir Shah and Qajar kings, but like a troll you are, come with irrelevant examples.

I explain to you that the turk already melted away in sea of Iranics in central asia and between scythians of kazakhstan before they reached middle east where they again mixed. So they were like a needle in the mountains, that's why true turk almost dont exist in Iran and middle east except in Turkmenistan (oghuz-Iranic mixture), kazakhstan (pure turkics) etc.
I call turks of Iran and anatolia the 3%-turks. (torke 3 darsadi), because I see no turk in especially Iranian azeri, not in their look, not in their habits.

The statue of the oghuz turk which suppose to be ancestor of anatolian turks and Iranian azeri and turkmens of Iraq is posted here for people to see and to compare.

 

[ASQ-1918]

So Nadir Shah Afshar was a "torke 3 darsadi"?

You know you are a troll, and you tag your other troll compatriots, what an attention seeker you are.

How many times I have to tell you, Iranian Azerbaijan are not homogeneus. There is a difference beetween dialect, culture, habits of Tabriz and Mughan.

 

[rmi5]

So Nadir Shah Afshar was a "torke 3 darsadi"?

You know you are a troll, and you tag your other troll compatriots, what an attention seeker you are.

How many times I have to tell you, Iranian Azerbaijan are not homogeneus. There is a difference beetween dialect, culture, habits of Tabriz and Mughan.

Why do you keep wasting your time with this clown?
they have no proofs so what they do is searching wikipedia to find something that may help them in discussion. BTW, about that genetics parts, city of Isfahan has a distinct genetical features from the rest of central and south Iran due to the long presence of turks in the city, since it was Safavid Turks capital, and also due to the forced migration of some georgians and armenians to Isfahan. BTW, these clowns are only able to run away in the discussion, since they don't have the knowledge and also the brain to understand what you are telling to them. Talking with them is exactly, with no exaggeration, like talking with a wall. If a wall understood what you told to it, he would understand it as well.

 

[Hakan]

@Shapur Zol Aktaf What point are you trying to prove here?

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

@Shapur Zol Aktaf What point are you trying to prove here?

That the link between oghuz on one side and Iranian Azeris on the other side is weak (at least genetically)

 

[Hakan]

That the link between oghuz on one side and Iranian Azeris on the other side is weak (at least genetically)

The reality is that they speak a Turkic language and they identify themselves as Turkic. This will not change and you have to accept that reality even though you don't like it. Also you should ask yourself why a particular group of people in Iran identify themselves as Turks and why others identify themselves as Persian or Arab.