Tunisia gov't says to close 80 mosques for inciting 'violence'!

[Norwegian]

Since the majority of scholars agreed that fatwas change with the change of time, place, circumstance and conditions, such principles do not apply any longer.

@TankMan I think this is the answer to what we have been debating on another thread for weeks regarding "reformation" of Shariah

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Which drivel? The historical facts that I wrote which are well-known to any historian or scholar of Islam?

Islam is Islam and KSA as the cradle of Islam is doing its duty.

I am a Shafi'i Sunni Muslim like most Hijazis and I see no differences with the Najdi-based Hanbali fiqh.

I don't see any problem. Sectarian attacks in KSA can be counted on 1 hand and all the indigenous sects in KSA (all those I mentioned unlike any where else in the Muslim world) live in complete peace and harmony. In fact ISIS broke that peace for the first time by doing 2 bombings which were unprecedented in KSA.

Islam is Islam? So you ignore other brands/versions/interpretations? Shia? Agha Khani? To name a few? The only reason you have uneasy peace is the massive finiancial buyout of the population otherwise they all would be killing each other.

Are you denying Saudi does not sponsor religious groups across the Muslim world? Do you want me to give you links. This is common known fact that nobody wants to talk about because massive Saudia's influence as a result of the oil.

@Metanoia You mean like in Turkey - BBC NEWS | Europe | Turkey in radical revision of Islamic texts

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Islam is Islam? So you ignore other brands/versions/interpretations? Shia? Agha Khani? To name a few? The only reason you have uneasy peace is the massive finiancial buyout of the population otherwise they all would be killimng each other.

Are you denying Saudi does not sponsor religious groups across the Muslim world? Do you want me to give you links. This is common known fact that nobody wants to talk about because massive Saudia's influence as a result of the oil.

Fundamentals of Islam are the same regardless of sect aside from those that are outside of the fold so to speak as recognized by the Muslims at large such as the Ahmadi sect native to Pakistan and India to give an example.

That's utter nonsense considering that resource rich countries in the Muslim world are burning and that KSA was peaceful before the discovery of oil and gas (1932-1945). You are quite obviously ignorant about KSA.

Listen, the fact that Pakistan is home to more terror attacks than anywhere else on the planet, that villagers stone unmarried couples in broad daylight has nothing to do with KSA or at most extremely little. That's your own societal ills. KSA has its own but not at this scale and of this nature.

Yes, KSA has a massive religious influence as the cradle of Islam and the seat of Makkah and Madinah which is only normal.

 

[Metanoia]

@Saif al-Arab I've lived in Hejaz, Najd, and Sharqiyah... @Atanz is absolutely right.

In terms of Saudi Arabia only, the local population might have different opinions and point of views but the Saudi government promotes and implements only one brand. The As-Sheikh family is the second royal family of KSA for a reason with marriages with the royal family and all. The alliance runs deep.

 

[jamahir]

Islamic laws have to be implmeneted by state you fail to do it you get ISIS and similar groups.

so, to stop isis' "islamic laws" we have to implement taliban/ikhwaani/ayatollai "islamic laws" ??

or let us go to the basic question... what are "islami laws", according to you ??

 

[Levina]

Fundamentals of Islam are the same regardless of sect aside from those that are outside of the fold so to speak as recognized by the Muslims at large such as the Ahmadi sect native to Pakistan and India to give an example.

That's utter nonsense considering that resource rich countries in the Muslim world are burning and that KSA was peaceful before the discovery of oil and gas (1932-1945). You are quite obviously ignorant about KSA.

Listen, the fact that Pakistan is home to more terror attacks than anywhere else on the planet, that villagers stone unmarried couples in broad daylight has nothing to do with KSA or at most extremely little. That's your own societal ills. KSA has its own but not at this scale and of this nature.

Yes, KSA has a massive religious influence as the cradle of Islam and the seat of Makkah and Madinah which is only normal.

Al hassani?

 

[Saif al-Arab]

@Saif al-Arab I've lived in Hejaz, Najd, and Sharqiyah... @Atanz is absolutely right.

In terms of Saudi Arabia only, the local population might have different opinions and point of views but the Saudi government promotes and implements only one brand. The As-Sheikh family is the second royal family of KSA for a reason with marriages with the royal family and all. The alliance runs deep.

"Absolutely right in what"? You need to be precise here.

That there is a state clergy that is mostly from Najd which follows the Hanbali fiqh does not change the fact that less than 1/3 of the population follows that fiqh and that non-Hanbalis are not perfectly free to follow their own sects in their own mosques etc. As evident by the independent practices of for instance Shias (Twlever, Zaydi, Ismaili) in the Eastern Province, Najran, Jazan etc.

I see nothing wrong with that as long as others are tolerated which is quite obviously the case in KSA.

In any case we Sunni Muslims do not look at it this way as all 4 mainstream Sunni madahib are more or less the same. Sunni Islam is obviously dominant in KSA as 80% of the native population follows it. Not any different to how it is in Egypt, Pakistan or Indonesia.

I don't see Shia's being denied their rights or killed. That certain clerics denounce the Shia's and their followings due to theological disagreements is their right just like certain Shia clerics do it the other way around. As long as it remains just that I have no problem with it.

 

[Zarvan]

so, to stop isis' "islamic laws" we have to implement taliban/ikhwaani/ayatollai "islamic laws" ??

or let us go to the basic question... what are "islami laws", according to you ??

They are clear Quran and Sunnat are full of them

 

[jamahir]

Pakistan needs to take these steps more than any other country.
Sermons in mosques are full of political and Religious hatred.
Pakistan must go back to it's Sufi roots. Enough of this Saudi version of Islam.

not saudi version... much of the fake islam in the world now derives from the "islam" invented right here in south asia by the deobandis and their missionary branch, tableeghi jamaat.

 

[Zarvan]

Al hassani?

No he is another All Hassani was not permanently banned he is not using group any more

 

[Levina]

No he is another All Hassani was not permanently banned he is not using group any more

He was my friend and he would not lie to me. I can spot him in a crowd, I'll wait for his answer.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Fundamentals of Islam are the same regardless of sect aside from those that are outside of the fold so to speak as recognized by the Muslims at large such as the Ahmadi sect native to Pakistan and India to give an example.

That's utter nonsense considering that resource rich countries in the Muslim world are burning and that KSA was peaceful before the discovery of oil and gas (1932-1945). You are quite obviously ignorant about KSA.

Listen, the fact that Pakistan is home to more terror attacks than anywhere else on the planet, that villagers stone unmarried couples in broad daylight has nothing to do with KSA or at most extremely little. That's your own societal ills. KSA has its own but not at this scale and of this nature.

Yes, KSA has a massive religious influence as the cradle of Islam and the seat of Makkah and Madinah which is only normal.

Listen I am not one of those poor Pakistani's who have no choice but to work in Saudia Arabia and have no voice thus forced to go along with your rubbish. I know more about KSA then I care to say. The only redeaming thing about KSA is the oil you found. Other than that it would have been sand, more sand and a few camels. This is fact.

In Pakistan we had civilization when you were still trying to figure out what needed covering up first with the only piece of cloth you had. Your head or your anterior/posterior.

The fruits of oil is a recent phenomenon and and will run out ....

Ps. I have to go now but if you want serious debate on this issue let me know and I will open a thread later and let best man prevail.

 

[jamahir]

He was my friend and he would not lie to me. I can spot him in a crowd, I'll wait for his answer.

he is al-hasani.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Al hassani?

Yes.

No he is another All Hassani was not permanently banned he is not using group any more

I already told you that I am Al-Hasani.

Why should I be banned? I forgot my password and email to my old user and then I left the forum for 1-2 months only to create this user due to the Yemen conflict and has since then used this user although I wrote 60% of my posts the first 2 weeks due to the Yemen conflict. It was quite vocal.

He was my friend and he would not lie to me. I can spot him in a crowd, I'll wait for his answer.

All the moderatos know that this is my user nor have I made it a secret. I contacted all of them.

 

[Norwegian]

Your solution reminds me of what the American's extreme right say's after the latest gun shooting outrage and calls are made to restricts gun sales in USA - "Stupid move more extremists will be produced".

Personally, I do not see any difference between American Christian, Conservative right and our own self-righteous Jihadi groups

Why do extremist Muslim's feel the need to go shoot or blow their fellow citizens in Europe? "Of the countries foreign policies" So let me get this right you expect UK or other soveriegn countries to first get approval from Muslim minoriy ( mostly of outside origin ) on their foreign policy?

Because they are "taught" from birth that Islam is the "perfect" and "infallible" religion of peace. So they get legitimacy for their terror attacks against Western targets directly from these Islamic texts

Would that not be like Pak government being required by the Hindu minority to first approve Pak foreign policy and then if adivice not take reserving the right to engage in terrorism activity ?

Why would Pakistani government even "consult" its Hindu Kafir minority? Does it even make sense???

And finally what propels the Muslim extremist inside Pakistan to go a and blow up or kill their fellow Muslim ( Shia ) like animals? I take it that will be the 'foreign hand' or Isreali agents doing that?

I have never heard of such levels of intra-communal Muslim on Muslim violence before the advent of Petrodollars in the late 80's!

but closing the mosques doesnt seem right people who pray their would have to build a new one

Don't you get it already? Today's mosques are no longer used for prayers and a place of worship. They are mostly used to plan terrorism and other social activities among Muslims

What's the logic???

Why are you even trying to spot "logic" in his ridiculous comments?

Sermons in mosques are full of political and Religious hatred.

No doubt!

The "Islam is Islam" holds no meaning whatsoever. It is just silly play on words like "Milk is milk". I already stated there are dozens of brands of Islam all at each other's throats and killing each other. Which of those brands in your estimation is "Islam"? Do please answer that?

Spot on!

Yes, militancy can be resolved, country by country by looking at every case on it's merits as each has drivers ( some overlapping ) and I give you two examples. How much militancy is there in Turkey or Iran? That is because in both religion is regulated. In the former because of the secular state and the latter through the homogenous shia clergy and the central office of Vilayat-e-Faqih.

You forgot mentioning the nature of State Islam in Malaysia. It prevents radicalism as well

Both examples have centralised control either derived from a secular structure ( Turkey ) or Shia Islamic structure ( Iran ).

And when two neighbours ( Afghans and Pak ) cannot resolve their differances to the point where one group wants to kick the other out and the other bad mouths the former then what does that tell you about the existance of something called "Muslim lands".

It tells me it only exists in the head some dreamers ...

I am sorry I don't buy in to that drivel. Indeed there is no Saudi version of Islam ( after all that a royal family ) however Saudia Arabia without doubt favours or sponsors certain brand of Islam. You might call it Salafism. Without doubt the Saudi's have sponsored the the more uncompromising version of Islam. You may choose to ignore that fact but it is a reality.

Saudia has a major problem with radicalism that it has exported successfully given ample petrodollars ...

Are you denying Saudi does not sponsor religious groups across the Muslim world? Do you want me to give you links. This is common known fact that nobody wants to talk about because massive Saudia's influence as a result of the oil.