Tunisia becomes breeding ground for Islamic State fighters

[damm1t]

One word.. Erdogan!

Tell you what.. I am a local, live here in Turkey... Probably I know the life in here better than you, Erdoğan came to power at 2002, 12 years ago from now. And all these 12 years long we heard that Turkey will be another Afghanistan, Iran, Sudan, Papua New Guineau, Brazil bla bla bla... And surprise! It just not happened... Erdoğan knows his limits and our red lines... Seriously nobody buys this sharia will come, Turkey becomes another Afghanistan shitto.. enough already after more than one decade

 

[Pride]

ISIS fighters return to Europe, europeans vs immigrants there. Many muslim countries get destabilized. Some muslim states wage war against Europe due to. Pakistan vs India. Saudi Arabia vs Iran. America/west vs ISIS vs Russia, Israel vs everyone. Australia and New Zealand go to war. Brazil invades Argentina. Illuminati vs Free masons. Zombie apocalypse. Evolved gun totting chimanzees. Just kidding. But this s*** could get quite serious.

Oops! Yes this is getting serious as it is spreading in many countries but it is still not as alarming to go ahead for WW3.

Tell you what.. I am a local, live here in Turkey... Probably I know the life in here better than you, Erdoğan came to power at 2002, 12 years ago from now. And all these 12 years long we heard that Turkey will be another Afghanistan, Iran, Sudan, Papua New Guineau, Brazil bla bla bla... And surprise! It just not happened... Erdoğan knows his limits and red lines... Seriously nobody buys this sharia will come, Turkey becomes another Afghanistan shitto.. enough already more than one decade

I know what you are saying. The only problem is that Erdogan was trying hard for EU and hence EU was using them for Civil Rights reform and that is why nothing happened till now but as this drama is getting too long, Erdogan is moving his agenda back from Secularism to Islamic nation. That is why I said, next 10 years are crucial for Turkey because ISIS is on the gate and radicals will push Erdogan for non action of the same.

You should also remember that most of the cases only one leader changes the course of history. Lets see how it goes but I wish all the best if Turkey remains what it is currently.

 

[Green Arrow]

Most of ISIS fighters are Tunisians.

 

[Mosamania]

You would be intellectually dishonest if you say that. It is indeed lost on Westerners who continue(though increasingly reducing) to be apologetic about Islamic extremism in their respective countries.

There has been nothing barring a few simple legislations to curb this menace in their own countries - From UK to France to Nordic countries. Their attempts at putting forth legislations keep getting shot down by Brussels in EU under the garb of (misplaced) Human Rights.
Heck they are not even allowed to easily deport the migrants from Muslim countries.

While awareness is slowly increasing in the Western world about this, it should have been there a decade ago.

So end migration from Muslim Countries is your solution? The world reached its pinnacle of freedom in the 80s and 90s, now it is regressing, the future looks grim, true freedom is becoming hard to find, total war is upon us. The golden age of humanity has ended.

 

[Contrarian]

So end migration from Muslim Countries is your solution? The world reached its pinnacle of freedom in the 80s and 90s, now it is regressing, the future looks grim, true freedom is becoming hard to find, total war is upon us. The golden age of humanity has ended.

The evidence lies before us does it not?
Look at France, what has migration from Algeria brought upon France?
Or look at UK, what Woolwich or Anjem Choudhary advocate?
Or look at Australia ? Muslim congregations holding 'death for kafirs' placards in their protest rallies?

They come to European/Western lands, enjoy the rights and freedoms that are given to them because of Secular approach of those countries, then they demand religious laws and when denied they start acting out against the very society that gave them shelter.

Is this acceptable in your view?

 

[Cherokee]

The evidence lies before us does it not?
Look at France, what has migration from Algeria brought upon France?
Or look at UK, what Woolwich or Anjem Choudhary advocate?
Or look at Australia ? Muslim congregations holding 'death for kafirs' placards in their protest rallies?

They come to European/Western lands, enjoy the rights and freedoms that are given to them because of Secular approach of those countries, then they demand religious laws and when denied they start acting out against the very society that gave them shelter.

Is this acceptable in your view?

Are you painting ALL Muslim immigrants to western countries with the same brush ?

So end migration from Muslim Countries is your solution? The world reached its pinnacle of freedom in the 80s and 90s, now it is regressing, the future looks grim, true freedom is becoming hard to find, total war is upon us. The golden age of humanity has ended.

What is true freedom and what is golden age of humanity ?

 

[Contrarian]

Are you painting ALL Muslim immigrants to western countries with the same brush ?

Do look at my previous post mate.
When you start profiling about which community assimilates least.

Which is not to say that all Muslims are like that. In fact I am aware that majority of them are not. But percentage wise, they have the highest in the 'grey zone' compared to other communities.

Then you will also realize that individual attempts by many nations to restrict visas or why Western nations are slowly tightening their visa and immigration processes to reduce immigration from the said countries, also has an underlying logic.
Or you will end up with the same conclusion that FBI did - when they started monitoring only the mosques in US.

Change has to come, one way or another.

 

[Desertfalcon]

You would be intellectually dishonest if you say that. It is indeed lost on Westerners who continue(though increasingly reducing) to be apologetic about Islamic extremism in their respective countries.

There has been nothing barring a few simple legislations to curb this menace in their own countries - From UK to France to Nordic countries. Their attempts at putting forth legislations keep getting shot down by Brussels in EU under the garb of (misplaced) Human Rights.
Heck they are not even allowed to easily deport the illegal migrants.

While awareness is slowly increasing in the Western world about this, it should have been there a decade ago.

I guess it depends on what the opinions of the individual Westerner may be. There is probably much less tolerance among most Americans for those who come to America to benefit from our prosperity and freedom and then repay it by such antics, then there might be in the centres of power in Europe.

 

[Cherokee]

I guess it depends on what the opinions of the individual Westerner may be. There is probably much less tolerance among most Americans for those who come to America to benefit from our prosperity and freedom and then repay it by such antics, then there might be in the centres of power in Europe.

I guess this goes for Indian/chinese as well ?

 

[Audio]

I guess it depends on what the opinions of the individual Westerner may be. There is probably much less tolerance among most Americans for those who come to America to benefit from our prosperity and freedom and then repay it by such antics, then there might be in the centres of power in Europe.

Much less illegal immigrants of a certain heritage too.

 

[Desertfalcon]

I guess this goes for Indian/chinese as well ?

Yes.

Much less illegal immigrants of a certain heritage too.

Our problem regarding illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America is a more complicated issue. Most of those immigrants are not really...immigrants but migrant workers, i.e., a large percentage of them do not come America to live permanently, to become American citizens, but only to work and send money back home. They often get married or bring wives here and their children born here are American and in fact, do not want to go back to Mexico. There is also the strong feeling among many Americans that all immigrants who come here permanently, should become Americanized, and learn American-English,etc. Like I said, it's complicated.

 

[Mosamania]

Do look at my previous post mate.
When you start profiling about which community assimilates least.

Which is not to say that all Muslims are like that. In fact I am aware that majority of them are not. But percentage wise, they have the highest in the 'grey zone' compared to other communities.

Then you will also realize that individual attempts by many nations to restrict visas or why Western nations are slowly tightening their visa and immigration processes to reduce immigration from the said countries, also has an underlying logic.
Or you will end up with the same conclusion that FBI did - when they started monitoring only the mosques in US.

Change has to come, one way or another.

These immigrants become Citizens, and as citizens they have the right to issue demands, that is what democracy is all about. Other wise if they start doing as you preach then they will regress in everything, the same thing happened with ancient Arabic empires and how they regressed, it is due to them becoming less and less tolerant over time. And history has a bad habit of repeating itself.

Instead of dehumanizing Muslims like you constantly do, try to look at things through a wider angle. You know I hold no love for Islamists what so ever, I hate them with every bone in my body, but Voltaire put it greatly:

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

 

[Contrarian]

These immigrants become Citizens, and as citizens they have the right to issue demands, that is what democracy is all about. Other wise if they start doing as you preach then they will regress in everything, the same thing happened with ancient Arabic empires and how they regressed, it is due to them becoming less and less tolerant over time. And history has a bad habit of repeating itself.

Instead of dehumanizing Muslims like you constantly do, try to look at things through a wider angle. You know I hold no love for Islamists what so ever, I hate them with every bone in my body, but Voltaire put it greatly:

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."

I see you have a point. Particularly about how freedom is important and regression is the beginning of decline.

But there is something to consider as too much freedom. There have to be some lines drawn somewhere - maybe not at speech, but what about actions. Lines have to be drawn at actions. And actions like woolwich murder, incitement to murder, grooming and whatnot have crossed certain thresholds.

Secondly you would be wrong to generalize that I am dehumanizing Muslims. I am dehumanizing Islamists and am consciously holding ordinary Muslims from those many countries as also responsible for the Islamists. Ultimately there is a reason why Islamists are developing in those societies, it is because they have social acceptance. If these Muslim societies did not have social acceptance of Islamists and afford certain level of legitimacy to them, they would not thrive in so many countries across vast geographies.

 

[Mosamania]

I see you have a point. Particularly about how freedom is important and regression is the beginning of decline.

But there is something to consider as too much freedom. There have to be some lines drawn somewhere - maybe not at speech, but what about actions. Lines have to be drawn at actions. And actions like woolwich murder, incitement to murder, grooming and whatnot have crossed certain thresholds.

Secondly you would be wrong to generalize that I am dehumanizing Muslims. I am dehumanizing Islamists and am consciously holding ordinary Muslims from those many countries as also responsible for the Islamists. Ultimately there is a reason why Islamists are developing in those societies, it is because they have social acceptance. If these Muslim societies did not have social acceptance of Islamists and afford certain level of legitimacy to them, they would not thrive in so many countries across vast geographies.

There is no such a thing as too much freedom, what you are calling for is the most despicable form of all repression, racial and religious repression. Having laws apply to certain races and religions and other laws apply to other races and religions.

This is one of the most despicable forms of repression, and it will ultimately create legitimacy to Islamists, the very same thing you are talking about. Remember my hate for Islamists is not because they are "Islam"ists, no because that would make me an intolerant asshole if I was, what I hate about them is that they seek to degrade the freedoms of others for their own expense.

So suggestions like yours, is pretty much the exact same replica as that of Islamists, and thus to me you are nothing but another side of the same coin.

 

[Contrarian]

There is no such a thing as too much freedom, what you are calling for is the most despicable form of all repression, racial and religious repression. Having laws apply to certain races and religions and other laws apply to other races and religions.

Of course there is.
In the name of absolute freedom would you allow all kinds of narcotics consumption in a country?
Or no traffic laws?

A society is designed around laws for a reason. Laws are by nature designed to discourage and restrict some activities that society collective deems harmful. In return for those laws, the society collective gives or attempts to give a hassle free life, a life of opportunities and as best safety as possible.

This is one of the most despicable forms of repression, and it will ultimately create legitimacy to Islamists, the very same thing you are talking about. Remember my hate for Islamists is not because they are "Islam"ists, no because that would make me an intolerant asshole if I was, what I hate about them is that they seek to degrade the freedoms of others for their own expense.
So suggestions like yours, is pretty much the exact same replica as that of Islamists, and thus to me you are nothing but another side of the same coin.

Since you are conflating my dehumanizing Islamists with "Islam"ists, allow me to add a definition of Islamists as Islamic supremacists. And hopefully it would stop the side-tracking of the topic by notions you are ascribing to me.

Now what I advocated is restricting and reducing migrations from certain countries - which is slowly happening.
Restricting hate speeches by these said Islamists by introducing news laws- which is also slowly happening.

Restricting opportunities is one thing, restricting that which harms society collective is quite another. And unless you start differentiating between the two, you are living in a ideal world - far from reality.