TTP managed Charsadda attack from Afghanistan: COAS

[rockstar08]

Afghanistan land wide and consist of Mountains and series of caves , Pakistan can never control Afghanistan unless the Afghan people are willing to do.. plus i wont support any such action ..
Pakistan just need strong safety precautions on border and completely seal it off ..
and send back all Afghans, Tajik and Uzbeks ..

 

[Taimoor Khan]

You have no concept of physical security, been on the forum for a couple of days and talking like your the dog's balls. Listen go sit peacefully in Manchester, Birmingham or London, or wherever in the UK you are and leave Pakistan's security to the professionals who know what they are doing.

Ever heard of term, "plugging the loopholes"? Problem with us lot that we dont learn from past mistakes. Everyday thousands of Afghans come to our country as if there is a cricket match going on our side. This relax attitude is OK when you got peace within and without, we are at state of war and of all of places that should be tightly monitored if not sealed are the border crossings.
I have been writing on other forums even before this forum was established. I was on Pakistanidefenceforum, designated as "general" , if that makes any sense, before that forum went belly up. So take your cheap shots somewhere else if you dont have anything substantial as counter argument.

 

[RescueRanger]

Ever heard of term, "plugging the loopholes"? Problem with us lot that we dont learn from past mistakes. Everyday thousands of Afghans come to our country as if there is a cricket match going on our side. This relax attitude is OK when you got peace within and without, we are at state of war and of all of places that should be tightly monitored if not sealed are the border crossings.
I have been writing on other forums even before this forum was established. I was on Pakistanidefenceforum, designated as "general" , if that makes any sense, before that forum went belly up. So take your cheap shots somewhere else if you dont have anything substantial as counter argument.

Titles mean nothing to me, what counts is experience, a working knowledge of the subject you are discussing and appreciating the actual working dynamic on the ground. You lack all three. Plugging loop holes, where did you read that? In a Tom Clancy Novel, or was it McNab?

You are sitting in the UK and commenting on a subject you have little or no direct involvement in. Carry on blissfully in your ignorance. I find your wall of text disturbing to say the least.

 

[Peshwa]

Your solutions are poorly thought out, and ignore geopolitical history and reality. Nothing more than drivil, fed to appease the masses.

Your argument ignores the fact that European imperialism that created dumb borders, propped up secular dictators, and started war after war in the middle east, is to blame. Hell, even the Jammu and Kashmir is the main fault of the Brits.

You criticize, without understanding, while not offering a proper solution. What is it that Pakistan should do? What are these structural changes that need to happen? Why? What are the root causes of the problems? Why are they the root cause? If you cannot seriously answer these questions, your entire argument falls apart (which it has).

How about starting with something as simple as gun control?!
Make it harder for every tom dick and harry to just walk up to the gun market in Peshawar and buy an AK...

Not saying that India is a role model for this, but the insurgencies in India have remained largely impotent because of lack of availability of guns, whether legally or in the grey market...

Something to think about...

 

[RescueRanger]

How about starting with something as simple as gun control?!
Make it harder for every tom dick and harry to just walk up to the gun market in Peshawar and buy an AK...

Do you know how hard it is for the average joe to get a firearms license in Pakistan? The kind of people who goto Faqirabad and buy an under the counter AK are the same type of people that don't walk up to their local kacheri to request a firearms license.

Read more: http://www.thenewstribe.com/2015/05/05/new-policy-of-acquiring-arms-license/

You cannot control the criminal flow of weapons, the UK has one of the strictest firearm policies in the world, and even their streets are not gun free.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Titles mean nothing to me, what counts is experience, a working knowledge of the subject you are discussing and appreciating the actual working dynamic on the ground. You lack all three. Plugging loop holes, where did you read that? In a Tom Clancy Novel, or was it McNab?

You are sitting in the UK and commenting on a subject you have little or no direct involvement in. Carry on blissfully in your ignorance. I find your wall of text disturbing to say the least.

Dont really give monkeys to your comment "been on the forum for a couple of days and talking like your the dog's balls" , and if I have given you the impression that I am here to please you, then I am sorry.

If I dont know what I am talking about, mind enlightening us in your infinite wisdom what we should do to protect our citizens specially our children.

 

[New World]

sir, what about underground tunnels and weapon industries??

@RescueRanger

 

[RescueRanger]

If I dont know what I am talking about, mind enlightening us in your infinite wisdom what we should do to protect our citizens specially our children.

1. You can drop the tone, it might have worked on some of the cool kids, not here thanks.

2. Seek and ye shall find. Start by reading some facts on the subject at hand:

http://pakpips.com
http://issi.org.pk
http://www.ndu.edu.pk/issra/issra_pub.php
http://dpart-sar.org/2016/01/21/safe-schools-its-up-to-us/
https://defence.pk/threads/citizenship-it’s-more-than-the-colour-of-your-passport.419416/
http://b.3cdn.net/awas/17f0a8f0c750d6704c_mlbrgn5qs.pdf

Come back when you are better informed. Cheers!

 

[Peshwa]

Do you know how hard it is for the average joe to get a firearms license in Pakistan? The kind of people who goto Faqirabad and buy an under the counter AK are the same type of people that don't walk up to their local kacheri to request a firearms license.

Read more: http://www.thenewstribe.com/2015/05/05/new-policy-of-acquiring-arms-license/

You cannot control the criminal flow of weapons, the UK has one of the strictest firearm policies in the world, and even their streets are not gun free.

Well, if checks and balances exist in handing out licenses in Pakistan, then why are these "gun markets" still allowed to function? I mean shouldnt they be the first target and become outlawed?

I also agree that its never going to be 100% elimination of guns, but if you take a look at the nos. of Pakistanis on PDF itself who operate advanced rifles etc (Read the My Gun Locker Thread on PDF), it leaves a pretty grim state of affairs from a gun control standpoint...and also doesnt speak very highly to your assertion ....."Do you know how hard it is for the average joe to get a firearms license in Pakistan?"

PS: Very good first step..going by the link provided..hopefully we see a sustained effect..

Though could you explain to me why Pakistanis have a love for gun? Is this a historical/cultural thing? Mind you, I love firing guns, but i keep that hobby limited to the gun range...never felt the need to own a firearm.

 

[RescueRanger]

sir, what about underground tunnels and weapon industries??

@RescueRanger

The tunnel network between Afghanistan and Pakistan is not as significant as it is in Syria or Palestine/Lebanon/Egypt. The terrain is very rocky with large deposits of Aynak and Copper:

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/afghanminerals/docs/aynak_a4.pdf

Makes it harder for the bad guys to dig through across the major cross points between af/Pak.

and also doesnt speak very highly to your assertion ....."Do you know how hard it is for the average joe to get a firearms license in Pakistan?"

1. The Darra market has existed since the time of the 2nd Anglo Afghan war, for the people there it is their livelihood and it is their way of life. That belt is an autonomous region and "YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED" to being weapons from Darra into Pakistan without due process:
http://www.dawn.com/news/1207933

Automatic weapons in Pakistan are prohibited for civilians:
http://www.tayabally.com/old/arm/armspolicy.pdf

No civilian can own an automatic weapon with the exception of:
1. Personal Security of some VVIPs: Ministers mainly
2. VVIPs who are rich enough to buy a PB Bore License ( this is very, very, very expensive and rare).

The weapons you see in " My Gun Locker" are mostly show pieces, don't confuse semi-auto SMG variants with fully auto AR's. I agree with you that stricter controls and enforcement is required and a need of the hour, however if a democratic beacon of hope like the United States of America struggles with gun laws, why are you guys from outside so shocked when Pakistan is going through the same sluggish process?

Though could you explain to me why Pakistanis have a love for gun? Is this a historical/cultural thing? Mind you, I love firing guns, but i keep that hobby limited to the gun range...never felt the need to own a firearm.

Why do Americans, why do Germans and French weapon enthusiasts? Some like firearms, some don't. Not all Pakistanis like firearms, please don't generalise like that. You yourself said this, you like to treat firearms as a "hobby", for me it is a necessary tool of self defence (dare I say it, last defence).

 

[Peshwa]

The weapons you see in " My Gun Locker" are mostly show pieces, don't confuse semi-auto SMG variants with fully auto AR's. I agree with you that stricter controls and enforcement is required and a need of the hour, however if a democratic beacon of hope like the United States of America struggles with gun laws, why are you guys from outside so shocked when Pakistan is going through the same sluggish process?

It is correct when you say that the US itself has failed to enforce an effective gun control policy...nevertheless, it is a matter of public debate and is a hotly debated one at that...

Nevertheless, you also have to agree that given the incidents (terrorism) that have plagued Pakistan, it fast becomes the need of the hour to debate gun control as a good first step which should be strictly enforced...
Nevertheless, many Pakistanis on the net (maybe not a good sample) would rather offer up to attack another country or nuke as a solution than help themselves and take steps to limit gun culture..and in turn help control terrorism or incidents like the Charsadda attack.
I have not once seen a debate on this topic in PDF...Can we say there are no takers?

Why do Americans, why do Germans and French weapon enthusiasts? Some like firearms, some don't. Not all Pakistanis like firearms, please don't generalise like that. You yourself said this, you like to treat firearms as a "hobby", for me it is a necessary tool of self defence (dare I say it, last defence).

Fair enough...and I agree with you, that self defence is where one has to draw the line with regards to owning arms...

However, I have been dealing/developed close friendships with a lot of native Pakistanis (From Karachi and Lahore) for close to 2 decades now..
And in my conversations with them having armed guards as chowkidaar of the house...armed convoys to parties etc was/is a common place...Now mind you, I understand that I might have befriended the privilaged Pakistanis here in the US, but in the early years I lived in India..I had/have never seen chowkidaars carrying weapons or people partying with armed guards at their table, not even the Ambanis..
and this was well before the WOT began...
So obviously it makes me question the lifestyle...You can't say that Pakistan was always unsafe, right?

Just stating my observation..

 

[Taimoor Khan]

1. You can drop the tone, it might have worked on some of the cool kids, not here thanks.

2. Seek and ye shall find. Start by reading some facts on the subject at hand:

http://pakpips.com
http://issi.org.pk
http://www.ndu.edu.pk/issra/issra_pub.php
http://dpart-sar.org/2016/01/21/safe-schools-its-up-to-us/
https://defence.pk/threads/citizenship-it’s-more-than-the-colour-of-your-passport.419416/
http://b.3cdn.net/awas/17f0a8f0c750d6704c_mlbrgn5qs.pdf

Come back when you are better informed. Cheers!

Son, been there done that, lets just cut the bull cr@p , and let me hear YOUR thoughts on the subject. I am not in the mood of playing copy/paste games.

 

[RescueRanger]

Son

Trust me I am much your senior, Junior!

been there done that, lets just cut the bull cr@p

Been there have you? How many years uniformed service?

and let me hear YOUR thoughts on the subject.

You should have bothered to click on the 3rd and 4th links then....

I am not in the mood of playing copy/paste games.

Lol, where did I copy and paste, is there a comprehension problem here?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I understand it can't be a hundred percent but its a start and later on can be improved and extended to mark the entire border...

It's not going to be even close to 100% and it'll be extremely difficult constructing it across the "entire border", especially in terrain like this:

 

[RescueRanger]

It is correct when you say that the US itself has failed to enforce an effective gun control policy...nevertheless, it is a matter of public debate and is a hotly debated one at that...

As it is in Pakistan:

http://www.dawn.com/news/1166055
http://www.dawn.com/news/1187586
http://www.dawn.com/news/1235096

u also have to agree that given the incidents (terrorism) that have plagued Pakistan, it fast becomes the need of the hour to debate gun control as a good first step which should be strictly enforced...

Agree, but ask yourself this, which terrorist get's their guns from your friendly neighbourhood gun shop?

I have not once seen a debate on this topic in PDF...Can we say there are no takers?

You are on a defence forum, I hope you understand that. However to satisfy your curiosity there have been plenty of good threads on the subject:
Illegal arms in Pakistan and police actions | news and updates
Deweaponisation bill: Weapon-free Pakistan?
Kalashnikov & Pakistan
Weaponisation of Pakistan
Smuggled NATO weapons in Pakistan
Aware me on Gun ownership policy in Pakistan
Years of the gun: A political history of the AK-47 in Pakistan
Worlds biggest illegale Gun market in Pakistan

Take your pick

And in my conversations with them having armed guards as chowkidaar of the house...armed convoys to parties etc was/is a common place...Now mind you, I understand that I might have befriended the privilaged Pakistanis here in the US

Yeah..... About that, your friends are not the average Pakistani are they? Armed convoy, bodyguards? Average salary for lower middle class man is 15/25000 PKR PM, Average cost of a decent armed guard: 15,000 PKR PM. Are you going to compare the cartel to all Columbians? See where I am going with this?

but in the early years I lived in India..I had/have never seen chowkidaars carrying weapons or people partying with armed guards at their table, not even the Ambanis..

I suppose those are pea shooters in their holsters "right"?

It's not going to be even close to 100% and it'll be extremely difficult constructing it across the "entire border", especially in terrain like this:

Ditto, and this is what people don't understand. The US with it's drones, DEA/ICE/Rangers, Lazer fences, co2 detectors, Backscatter xRay etc can't control cross border "invasions" from poor people looking for a better life in the U.S. riding in the back of busted up pick up trucks, and people think Pakistanis will have an easier time controlling hardened terrorists who live on the Mountain.