TTP leaders confess taking funds from RAW

[R.A.W.]

I certainly do no tthink it's justified to get emotionally charged up - I think it's just "good business" to make clear what is and is not acceptable.

If it is true that R&AW are involved with TTP, then it is act of war and Govt of Pakistan must protect Pakistanis. The role of the Jamaat e Ulema e Islam and Jamaat Islami and their relationship with TTP and therefore with R&AW would then have to be exploered and exposed fully.

yes if it is so...then the case should be filed in the international court of justice and should be taken up with the international community. Just by Pakistan media reporting it would end up with flaming with no justified results what so ever.

 

[adnust]

... Porr Pakistanis , No one claims that RAW is innocent,

Oh thank you sir. at least u ppl hv confessed that raw is killing innocents in INDIA and Pakistan and Afghanistan too... (as recently many PKs were killed in Afgh.)

but where ever there is a terrorist attack in the whole world, at the end of investigation, There is same End to it "DARK HANDS OF DIRTY ISI" .. lol at you guys

oh investigation... i guess indians are much faster in this... right after the start of mumbai attack, with in minutes media was saying that ISI is involved... what an investigation... dear i hv never seen any independent investigations... by american and indians... i guess u r living in heaven of fools... why the indians are not agreeing in joint investigation of kasab... don't be dear... plz think unbiased...

1 more thing... in whole world Muslims countries are invading Muslim countries like Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Chechania etc... Muslims have quit excellent secret agencies... LOL

 

[Conscientious objector]

Whats that you say muse? War with India?

Where's the financial incentive for that? Who will pay the GOP billions of dollars to wage war on India? Besides the Indian army in not equivalent to a civilian population,the pak army do not have the stomach for a battle on more equal terms I don't think.
No not a viable option at all I'm afraid matey, you'll have to think of a better idea than that.

 

[muse]

then the case should be filed in the international court of justice and should be taken up with the international community.

The international court of Justice nor the Intl community are venues which protect citizens of Pakistan, it is the GoP that has that responsibility.

There is a lot of politics being played with this issue (if you can believe that) - some quarters in Pakistan are determined that US and India should be made to take the blame for TTP (Which is why I brought up the issue of JUI and JI), you will have noted the testimony of the political agent from Waziristan in this regard, and there are also elements that question why US would be involved in the TTP - which is why, IF the R&AW involvment with TTP is reality, then it must be brought to the attention of the Pakistani people and the govt of Pakistan would then be accountable, it would then have ot explain why it is not protecting Pakistanis or the this business would have to be exposed as a lie.

 

[R.A.W.]

The international court of Justice nor the Intl community are venues which protect citizens of Pakistan, it is the GoP that has that responsibility.

There is a lot of politics being played with this issue (if you can believe that) - some quarters in Pakistan are determined that US and India should be made to take the blame for TTP (Which is why I brought up the issue of JUI and JI), you will have noted the testimony of the political agent from Waziristan in this regard, and there are also elements that question why US would be involved in the TTP - which is why, IF the R&AW involvment with TTP is reality, then it must be brought to the attention of the Pakistani people and the govt of Pakistan would then be accountable, it would then have ot explain why it is not protecting Pakistanis or the this business would have to be exposed as a lie.

yes i do understand what you are saying... Things are not that simple as they look like.... If you keep my nationality aside for a moment I would say even if Indians are involved I think government would will try to rule out that possibility because for the sole reason this would pressurize government to take some action and majority and army will be with the sentiment of war. But in that case there are economic and complications. In Pakistan there is conception that Indian army can be taken over with little more effort infested in the minds of common public. But the ground reality is far from what it looks like. And no action from the side of government will turn the public against the government if there are proofs. And if government goes for un conventional ways then GOP cannot actually accept it.

So the sole solution would be the International court of justice, because a case cannot be filed on Indians in Pakistan court with no extradition treaty. It would be just waste of time. So what matters is the international perception.

 

[Developereo]

I think what muse is saying is that he believes the TTP is funded by Saudi Wahabis to promote Wahabism and kill Shias (and other non-believers), and that it enjoys the support of Islamic political parties in Pakistan.

The India/US connection is a red herring.

Capisce?

(muse, correct me if I am misreading you here, thanks.)

 

[muse]

Develepero

I don't for a minute think that the Pakistani govt will tolerate Indian involvement in TTP - Pakistani govt has a long reach in India and in Afghanistan- if this R&AW was real, some in Indian and Afghanistan would be attending funerals of some who passed away though they seemed in good health.

I would again bring the attention of readers to the testimony of the political agent in Wazirstan before a parliamentary committee suggesting that TTP was a Indian and US creation -- and yet the govt of Pakistan has not accepted this testimony, as is clear from it's inaction.

So, what going on? If this TTP business is true, why has GoP not acted on this information? Why has the Gop put out a report that TTP funding has been coming from Saudi? If you visit the SITE website, there is a video of TTP thanking their donors -- there is a lot confusion about this issue and a lot of politics.

 

[TruthSeeker]

It seems crystal clear that the funding sources for the TTP (and the Afghani Taliban, too) are critically important "facts" to establish if it is at all possible. The citizens of all the nations involved in the fighting in Pakistan and Afghanistan have a vital interest in understanding who is really their enemy. Who is behind the killing of their citizens and the ruination of their economies? All of the intelligence agencies involved, RAW, ISI, CIA etc. have a duty to their peoples to expose the factual linkages between terror groups and their bankers. So, IF the ISI really has "proof" of RAW involvement with the TTP, they owe it to the people of Pakistan, and, I maintain, to the US and India as well, to come forward with their proof. If they don't do that, then I think it is clear that they are playing disinformation games, and their public credibility on all matters is nil -- including the "rumor" that the US wouldn't strike BM when the ISI wanted them to.

 

[r3alist]

Develepero

I don't for a minute think that the Pakistani govt will tolerate Indian involvement in TTP - Pakistani govt has a long reach in India and in Afghanistan- if this R&AW was real, some in Indian and Afghanistan would be attending funerals of some who passed away though they seemed in good health.

I would again bring the attention of readers to the testimony of the political agent in Wazirstan before a parliamentary committee suggesting that TTP was a Indian and US creation -- and yet the govt of Pakistan has not accepted this testimony, as is clear from it's inaction.

So, what going on? If this TTP business is true, why has GoP not acted on this information? Why has the Gop put out a report that TTP funding has been coming from Saudi? If you visit the SITE website, there is a video of TTP thanking their donors -- there is a lot confusion about this issue and a lot of politics.

you are ignoring the US factor, they have made it clear time and time again that pakistan cannot say or do anything openly or otherwise against indians interests (refer to holbrooks statement on pak/india) - if there is one element of the equation that can keep pakistan quiet its the US.


i have heard alot of rumours and hearsay that people in the army are frustrated they cannot act, well maybe the US stranglehold is the source of frustration.

 

[muse]

The American? Yes, of course - not the Jamaati, and the JUI, not the govt of Pakistan saying that TTP funding is coming from Saudi - but of course the American - bar chashem

 

[r3alist]

The American? Yes, of course - not the Jamaati, ant the JUI, not the govt of Pakistan saying that TTP funding is coming from Saudi - but of course the American - bar shamem

do you care to reason your response out?

pakistan/india are basically in a permanent cold war situation, it stands to reason that there is a possiblity that india could be involved in some capacity, hardly groundbreaking is it?

yes there is our own own homegrown elements, but you cant honstly be saying the picture is that simple can you?

so lets evaluate the options reasonably rather then be defensive about anything you do not agree with?

how about it?

 

[TruthSeeker]

you are ignoring the US factor, they have made it clear time and time again that pakistan cannot say or do anything openly or otherwise against indians interests

This is outright, total B.S. Is Pakistan a Nation or isn't it? If Pakistan is so afraid to tell the world its proof of RAW support for the TTP, then leak it to the Washington Post, like everybody here in the USA does! The US government can't keep CIA people from leaking secrets, tell the ISI to take some reporters to lunch in Washington!

 

[r3alist]

This is outright, total B.S. Is Pakistan a Nation or isn't it? If Pakistan is so afraid to tell the world its proof of RAW support for the TTP, then leak it to the Washington Post, like everybody here in the USA does! The US government can't keep CIA people from leaking secrets, tell the ISI to take some reporters to lunch in Washington!

But don't you really mean:

The Americans won't let Pakistan protect its people from brutal terrorists because the Jews ordered America to let the Pakistanis die?

ha, so your argument is based around trying to call me an anti-semite, in other words you have no argument.


you take a completely ahistorical view, as if us relations and the way the US has conducted itself with other nations in the past is no longer relevant.

its complete folly to rule out the posssibilty that the us is not exerting their considerable influence in the corrupt pakistani establishment, moreso when there is much debate/discussion about the lack of inaction from pakistani officials.

just listen to and watch holbrook whenever a pakistani journo brings up india/kashmir, he wont have anything negative said against india, not a single word, seems as if he is acting as their protector - am only discussing the possibility, i believe i have the right to do so.

 

[r3alist]

btw, can the mods please have a look at truthseekers comments, surely there must be a rule for unprovoked accusations, moreso when its slanderous, its completely uncalled for.

this guy seems to have no qualms about calling muslims/pakistanis anti-semites.

 

[S-2]

Fascinating discussion.

It is taken for fact by many here of India's involvement w/ the TTP...and afghans too. Further, that these operations eminate from Afghanistan.

Yet no proof that stands any reasonable test. None. Here lies the crux of the issue- a matter of "faith" by your populace but no Adlai Stevenson moment before the accumulated world audience.

The veritable "ah-hah" moment we all long to see.

There's a reason that the myth is far out in front of the facts, however. Internal consumption.

Muse and truthseeker are hitting the points hard here while skirting the central issue of WHY such an agenda is so commonly pursued by the GoP and the P.A.

Were there incontrovertible evidence of such, we'd long since known so. I've suggested this often before. I'll do so again- What has the GoI to gain? What further incremental contribution to your chaos that the seeds long ago planted by the afghan taliban haven't already provoked can India really contribute? And at what cost to their internat'l reputation if caught?

Too little to gain and too much to lose for an India that'll see Afghanistan drop like ripe fruit by it's sheer goodwill within Afghanistan...if the taliban defeat is secured.

Finally, war Muse? Really? Why, were these accusations true about India, Afghanistan, or (Heaven forbid) America? If so, what forebearance the rest of us must have displayed to not make war upon you for the same?

Pakistan is a nuclear country. Please act like it. If the worm has, indeed, turned against you by the use of proxies, the GoP and P.A. more than any can understand why and display a similar forebearance, should they not?

That first-class, incontrovertible proof presented in a global forum is the key to this argument.

I have to laugh that some here might suggest that Holbrooke has "muzzled" the Pakistani gov't. Really!?

The rest of us are waiting for that proof, folks. Hell of a story to be written here but nobody seems able to do so.

Thanks.