TTP leaders confess taking funds from RAW

[Developereo]

How many innocent has ISI killed? You have no records, millions and millions of people

millions and millions?
Have a lie down.

If India wants to arm TTp.. then why it would remain limited to some rifles only.... ATGMs like milan missile produced on large scale in India.... and we have good relations with Afganistan... we can arm them to the teeth if hell bent to do so.

Two words: plausible deniability.

CNN is a reliable source only if you're a hick.

CNN, BBC and much of the Western media share an anti-Pakistan agenda with the Indian media. They lost all remaining credibility -- not that they had much left to lose -- when they published Musharraf's "admission" of US aid diversion verbatim from Indian media without doing any verification.

 

[iPhone]

I chose RAW as my name as you hate it. My sole motivation was if I am able to convince people that ok I have a bad name but can I change it. RAW does not hate Pakistan. It just loves India.

excuse me, bro but you cannot speak on behalf of RAW that it does not hate Pakistan. I respect your feelings but if funneling money and weapons into TTP to help carry out terrorist attacks in Pakistan does not equate to RAW hating Pakistan than what does?

 

[adnust]

LOL at indians... i don't why they become innocent and apologetic when Pakistan shows some proof of interference... They think that raw is the innocent agency of the world... i don't know why do they forget the dhaka fall... the proof of indian hat towards Pakistan, kicking their leader from party just for praising Quaid.
I mean come on... there is no doubt the indian did not accept Pakistan from start... in the election campaigns of there politicians/parties, the Pakistan has suitable weight, here in Pakistan i did not see any one saying the "I'll kick india on his a**". So many heavy examples are there... and they say that indians/raw is innocent. its a big LOL... believe me...

 

[Join]

LOL at indians... i don't why they become innocent and apologetic when Pakistan shows some proof of interference... They think that raw is the innocent agency of the world... i don't know why do they forget the dhaka fall... the proof of indian hat towards Pakistan, kicking their leader from party just for praising Quaid.
I mean come on... there is no doubt the indian did not accept Pakistan from start... in the election campaigns of there politicians/parties, the Pakistan has suitable weight, here in Pakistan i did not see any one saying the "I'll kick india on his a**". So many heavy examples are there... and they say that indians/raw is innocent. its a big LOL... believe me...

... Porr Pakistanis , No one claims that RAW is innocent, but where ever there is a terrorist attack in the whole world, at the end of investigation, There is same End to it "DARK HANDS OF DIRTY ISI" .. lol at you guys

 

[R.A.W.]

You should have read all the "neutral sources" you have provided, before posting them to make your point. They all clearly state that the "Indians claim" such-and-such. It weakens your point if anything, it makes Indian authorities look like a bunch of whiners (which is not entirely a lie). Secondly, the CNN is a reliable source only if you're a hick. I am not one, so I take their reports with a grain of salt. There are certain Israeli and Indian media establishments that I'd trust more then the CNN. Lastly, this thread is about Indian support for terrorists targetting Pakistani civilians in Pakistani cities. Not about Pakistani support for Kashmiri separatists fighting Indian soldiers in Kashmir, there are other threads for that.

But as you say, Satyamev Jayte. It surely will this time as well.

So it would be nice if you can let me know what falls under your definition of neutral resources. As you are rejecting the claim as being from Indian sources, dont you think that your claims are from Pakistani sources on the same grounds.

How should be believe that Pakistan is not trying to malign India just because of Mumbai episode?

 

[muse]

If This business about R&AW funding and training TTP was true -- and the Pakistani govt refuses to protect the Pakistani people by taking it to the Indian heartland -- What does that say about Pakistan? What does it say about the GoP??

Many Pakistanis writing on the thread say they "feel" Indian is involved with TTP - but are "feelings" what we should be going for?

If it is true that TTP and R&AW are intimately involved with each other, then it seems to me that GoP must make that case and must make every effort to gather these evidences and then take the battle to the heart of the Indian state and by obligation of protecting the Pakistani people, dismantle the Indian state -- don't you agree??

So if this stuff is true, why isn't the Pakistani state doing that??

 

[SMC]

If Indians are denying the confessions, what about Kasab's own confessions, which indians took at face value? They could also have been gained through torture, ya know? So that argument as far as I am concerned doesn't stand.

 

[muse]

Well, it seems it is a challenge to Pakistani security authorities to bring these TTP to television interviews and these "commanders" by their own words say who they met, where they were trained and by whom, how much money, how was it accounted for, whihc routes they traveled on, how they avoided espcially US forces- and to especially explain how they managed to gain so many recruits in Pakistan. After all, the groups have had support of JUI and JI, what is the relationship of these "peaceful and democratic" religious political parties with R&AW and how they have been funding themselves.

 

[PAFAce]

If This business about R&AW funding and training TTP was true -- and the Pakistani govt refuses to protect the Pakistani people by taking it to the Indian heartland -- What does that say about Pakistan? What does it say about the GoP??

Many Pakistanis writing on the thread say they "feel" Indian is involved with TTP - but are "feelings" what we should be going for?

If it is true that TTP and R&AW are intimately involved with each other, then it seems to me that GoP must make that case and must make every effort to gather these evidences and then take the battle to the heart of the Indian state and by obligation of protecting the Pakistani people, dismantle the Indian state -- don't you agree??

So if this stuff is true, why isn't the Pakistani state doing that??

I'm sorry, I couldn't understand this statement: "take the battle to the heart of the Indian state and by obligation of protecting the Pakistani people, dismantle the Indian state". If this means war, that's one way to deal with it, slightly brash for my taste, but still along the lines of what I was thinking when I said counter offensive. I mean, one could argue that the Americans have gone to war for far less than this, with less evidence, so why not us?

But.
Firstly, in Pakistan, the military decides to go to war, not the political leadership, so any action must be triggered by the military. "Pakistani govt refuses to protect the Pakistani people by taking it to the Indian heartland" is a loaded statement. It is an unfortunate fact. Secondly, you can't go to war with a divided sovereign and military leadership, it's like fighting with one arm tied, and our current political leadership would never instigate (cowards? maybe, but maybe wise as well). Thirdly, the evidence is not substantial enough to make a case in international eyes. I believe evidence is being gathered as we speak. If you could get, say, Fazlullah to make the same confession and provide the international media with footage of it, then maybe our case becomes strong enough for such an action, but not until the ISI and the Army does its job of acquiring data. Lastly, as a basic principle, Pakistan must never instigate a War with India, not until the imbalance of power remains in their favor at least. The action you suggest may be considered instigation, which would almost certainly guarantee a war.

But, if by "taking it to the heartland" you did not mean act of war, then I apologize for my insolence.

 

[muse]

Since when is disagreement expressed as reasonably as you have been seen as insolence?


"Take to the heart of the Indian state" - Absolutely, are Pakistanis children of a lesser god? If this stuf is true, Pakistan must at least prepare it's populace and signal to the Indian and the internatioonal community that this will end right now or else, it's war.

I suggest to prepare the population, these TTP commanders, the signals intercepts and documents siezed should be presented over a 3 month period to the Pakistani populace in television interviews in which they by their own words confirm what has appreared in print.

You say that govt and people are not united, what better to unite them, and if they do not unite, then we should realize that our problem is as it was before the operations against the talib - that is to say, we do not know WHY we should exist and we do not knbow WHY we should act to safeguard Pakistanis. Don't you think??

It has become a industry in Pakistan to make believe Pakistan exists on some other planet and the world is against it - and lets face it, why would the world not believe that? Lets decide the "to be or not to be" for the sake of Pakistanis and the world; it will help the Indian, the Afghan and US, and the Iranian, and the Chinese, everybody.

 

[pakomar]

Well, Who started it? Even if RAW is supplying arms to those, Its all because ISI is planning worse.... Simple... "If you cannot be them, Join them" Yes , We too have learnt our lessons, all these day's pakistan was promoting terrorism in our country, Its Pay Back Time, No debts.... Giving with interests now....

Indian supports to Taliban gona haunt you in future.

 

[R.A.W.]

I'm sorry, I couldn't understand this statement: "take the battle to the heart of the Indian state and by obligation of protecting the Pakistani people, dismantle the Indian state". If this means war, that's one way to deal with it, slightly brash for my taste, but still along the lines of what I was thinking when I said counter offensive. I mean, one could argue that the Americans have gone to war for far less than this, with less evidence, so why not us?

But.
Firstly, in Pakistan, the military decides to go to war, not the political leadership, so any action must be triggered by the military. "Pakistani govt refuses to protect the Pakistani people by taking it to the Indian heartland" is a loaded statement. It is an unfortunate fact. Secondly, you can't go to war with a divided sovereign and military leadership, it's like fighting with one arm tied, and our current political leadership would never instigate (cowards? maybe, but maybe wise as well). Thirdly, the evidence is not substantial enough to make a case in international eyes. I believe evidence is being gathered as we speak. If you could get, say, Fazlullah to make the same confession and provide the international media with footage of it, then maybe our case becomes strong enough for such an action, but not until the ISI and the Army does its job of acquiring data. Lastly, as a basic principle, Pakistan must never instigate a War with India, not until the imbalance of power remains in their favor at least. The action you suggest may be considered instigation, which would almost certainly guarantee a war.

But, if by "taking it to the heartland" you did not mean act of war, then I apologize for my insolence.

Even taken to the heartland without war can have serious implications for Pakistan with serious influx of Indian money into Pakistan. Economical equaltions will always be there where huge money from Indian side would be invested into a smaller terrain of Pakistan and Pakistan with lesser money would be investing into a bigger terrain. So this would further increase the confrontations. Because this is known fact that Indians will not be sitting ideal when the war is taken to the heartland. there are always 2 sides of the coin. There is always knee jerk reaction.

 

[muse]

I think this business of huge amounts of Indian money is a bit of a canard - Indian economy is 1 trillion $$ but it also has 10 times the population of Pakistan and this brings the economies of the two closer, while the Indian economy remains larger, it is not one that can afford any country, especially Pakistan, taking it to the heartland, not just the periphery. India unfortunately has cultivated security concerns from quarters other than Pakistan.

If this information is true that R&AW are deeply involved, I think it must end or be winding up must begin now -- and of course if it is not true, then those who are spreading this disinformation in Pakistan, must be held accountable.

 

[R.A.W.]

I think this business of huge amounts of Indian money is a bit of a canard - Indian economy is 1 trillion $$ but it also has 10 times the population of Pakistan and this brings the economies of the two closer, while the Indian economy remains larger, it is not one that can afford any coungtry, especially Pakistan taking it to the heartland, not just the periphery. India unfortunately has cultivated security concerns from quarters other than Pakistan.

If this information is true that R&AW are deeply involved, I think it must end or be winding up must begin now -- and of course if it is not true, then those who are spreading this disinformation in Pakistan, must be held accountable.

See what I meant to say was RAW gets all its funding from the defense budget. Though Indians have only 2 to 3 % to invest in defense it is far bigger amount for what actually pakistan invests.

Justice does not sees the boundaries....

See if there is Indian involvement then concerned person needs to punished for such a act against the citizens of Pakistan. And same applies for Pakistan for terrorism within India.

But do you think it is justified to get emotionally charged up just on the basis of some confessions which can easily be forced into people. Let the investigations shape up before drawing conclusions.

 

[muse]

I certainly do not think it's justified to get emotionally charged up - I think it's just "good business" to make clear what is and is not acceptable.

If it is true that R&AW are involved with TTP, then it is act of war and Govt of Pakistan must protect Pakistanis. The role of the Jamaat e Ulema e Islam and Jamaat Islami and their relationship with TTP and therefore with R&AW would then have to be exploered and exposed fully.