TTP has threatened KP government, wants to establish its rule in KP

[Corruptistan]

People are not looking at this from a neutral and objective perspective but from their own lenses, mostly biased ones or based on personal dislikes or experiences, ignorance towards the ground realities or bombastic generalizations.

This situation requires a multifaceted solution. Nobody is blameless. The biggest blame first and foremost lies with the pathetically incompetent" Pakistani elites" devoid of any long-term visions and goals and long-term thinking.

It is the responsibility of the state to secure basics like law and order within its borders and jurisdiction and to educate people and influence people to love the state and be loyal to it.

First of all, the Pakistani state and elites (military leadership included and in particular) have failed not only KPK by large but all of Pakistan. Every single province and district have legitimate and numerous grievances. It all boils down to those in power and the leadership and so-called elites. That and a truly cohesive Pakistani identity emerging that transcends petty ethnic, regional and sectarian lines. Natural given the young age of the state but much should and could have been demanded from those in power.

People are not born to join TTP or other terrorist groups. Usually social circumstances make them do it. Often grievances whatever and perceived enemies, in this case the Pakistani state.

The solution is not more violence but lasting economic, social, political etc. changes. Appointing the right political leaders who are in touch with the local society and who knows what works and what does not work.

The idiotic rhetoric by anti-Pashtun diaspora Pakistanis serves nothing but TTP propaganda and just what they want to hear.

Yes, there are areas of KPK, Waziristan in particular, where people are holding views etc. that are not only contrary to Islam but harmful for those very same people. However like with any change, change in order to be lasting, must happen organically and not by force. Many of the same problems were once widespread in all of Pakistan but communities became wiser and stopped following such practices.

We need to create a Pakistan were every group within Pakistan does not feel alienated. This is the first step.

There would be no TTP or BLA if there were not legitimate grievances from people within KPK, Balochistan etc. Of course grievances does not legitimatize terrorism but remember that we are overall talking about a tiny minority of Pashtuns and Baloch. If not, neither KPK nor Balochistan would have been a part of Pakistan, there would have been a full-scale insurgency.

 

[TheSolution]

That's hogwash.
When you consider the number of population, and then consider their livelihoods, tribes and their love for the local land thats been in their family for generation.
That's just not impossible, even Pakistan, to these people, is to some extent tolerable because we're here, and were here and are of people that were around their lands for a looooong time.

Those foreigners aint got a chance.

You're naive.

Firstly they are not foreigners to them, they are other Pashtuns. Same culture, blood, religion.

Secondly, they don't lose their land under TTP/Afghan rule.

Thirdly, the rule being established is Pashtunwali tribal codes which is something part of their culture.

They have no strong incentive to fight or resist. Maybe they may feel more inclined to it.

 

[TheNoob]

You're naive.

Firstly they are not foreigners to them, they are other Pashtuns. Same culture, blood, religion.

Secondly, they don't lose their land under TTP/Afghan rule.

Thirdly, the rule being established is Pashtunwali tribal codes which is something part of their culture.

They have no strong incentive to fight or resist. Maybe they may feel more inclined to it.

Imagine a guy sitting in UK telling me about things i've actually witnessed.

1. They're foreigners if the power isn't shared other than their leaderships.
2. They do lose their land under the TTP rule, i don't know where afghan came from but TTP is vastly different and more radical compared to the Afghan Taliban.
3. Again, you're confusing Afghan Taliban with the TTP, which is... once again, very different. Their agenda isn't a pashtunwali, their agenda is a frankenstein version of Islamic Shariah based upon the butcherd version of Pashtunwali. - This is very evident from what happened in Waziristan.
4. They have an incentive when another tribe starts encroaching their land and start poaching their people to fight other people.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Pashtun ethno nationalism will of course

Why didn’t it work the first time TTP came?

They have no strong incentive to fight or resist. Maybe they may feel more inclined to it.

Why were there protests in Swat after reported militant activity?

 

[Corruptistan]

You're naive.

Firstly they are not foreigners to them, they are other Pashtuns. Same culture, blood, religion.

Secondly, they don't lose their land under TTP/Afghan rule.

Thirdly, the rule being established is Pashtunwali tribal codes which is something part of their culture.

They have no strong incentive to fight or resist. Maybe they may feel more inclined to it.

What does sharing the same ethnicity mean exactly? Where Punjabi Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus not massacring each other (millions dying) during the partition? I mean the whole official history of Pakistan (due to Punjabis being the majority and shaping the official history naturally) has been that Pakistan was created as a safe refugee for the persecuted Muslim masses of South Asia but the reality is that indigenous Muslim ethnic groups such as Sindhis, Pashtuns, Baloch etc. did not share or have this "creation history". It is only shared largely by Pakistani Punjabis and Muslim migrants that migrated to Pakistan post-1948, many of whom settled in Karachi and rest is history (PPP vs MQM dynamic and prior events too and parties).

Do you have any particular affinity to the same Indian Punjabi Sikhs that were committing genocide against Muslim Punjabis or vice versa?

Why do you assume that Pakistanis Pasthuns and Afghan Pashtuns are identical when they have been part of two very different states for the past 75 years with different histories?

Since you recognize that Pashtuns are mainly tribal (correct), as were all peoples of Pakistan (Punjabis included), then how come are you not aware of the fact that many tribes in Pakistan (Pashtun tribes) and Pashtun tribes bases in Afghanistan have had long feuds and conflicts for power?

TTP have marginal support in KPK, if the opposite was the case, KPK would be completely lawless even for Pakistan standards.

Pashtunwali is followed differently depending on tribe, clan, urban, rural, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc., young and old generation. Pashtunwali has a lot of good traditions but also a lot of bad/ignorant ones like any old culture.

Most importnatly, you do realize that the main victims of terrorism, criminality, violence etc. are local Pashtuns in KPK, not Lahoris and whatever. No disrespect to them but it sounds like the main victims here are not ordinary Pashtuns but far away cities and populations.

Look, as I wrote, there is a terrorism problem/insurgency/a feeling of abandonment/being alienating by those in power in Pakistan, within KPK and in particular Balochistan (also in areas like rural Sindh or even freaking Karachi) but your solution won't help anything, just create a bigger problem for future generations. There are no other solutions than what I wrote in post 61.

If some sections of Pashtuns in KPK and Baloch people are incapable of helping themselves, it is the damn job of the Pakistani state to help them, but this simple job has been a massive failure as well like much else in recent era in Pakistan. Blame those "civilized Pakistani elites" for not being able to help (in your view) ignorant people. It is like blaming a child/infant when the parent (Pakistan) is to be blamed.

 

[Corruptistan]

To make it simple and short.

Any sane state that has an internal problem that needs to be solved.

What does it usually do? Well, it solves the problem by engaging with those affected (community affected by the problem) not by alienating said community but by working TOGETHER with said community for the greater good and in order to fix the problem.

Instead on a supposed nationalistic/patriotic Pakistani forum, we have a long list of diaspora Pakistanis and Pakistanis based in Pakistan, who are doing everything to further divide the communities within Pakistan by engaging in covert racism, stupid and childless generalizations devoid of any logic or historical knowledge etc.

Yet the same users are spending half of their existence on obsessing/commenting on Indians and india, while they should rather worry about helping fix the mess that is Pakistan anno 2023 instead of further helping divide Pakistan. Who needs enemies with such "patriots" around?

 

[TheSolution]

Why didn’t it work the first time TTP came?

2 reasons:

1. TTP was too brutal and aggressive in their maneuvering and started butchering elders and people started turning away from them.

2. The militancy was disrupting their daily life and they just wanted it to be over.

Why were there protests in Swat after reported militant activity?

Because another Pashtun ethnonationalist rallied them up for it.

What does sharing the same ethnicity mean exactly? Where Punjabi Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus not massacring each other (millions dying) during the partition?

Sharing the same ethnicity means they are your own - so his claim that they will reject them as "foreigners" is defunct - most tribals don't recognise a political border truly separating Pashtuns. "Lar O Bar Yao Afghan".

And yes they did, I don't understand the point you're making here but sounds like whataboutism...

 

[Mirzali Khan]

2 reasons:

1. TTP was too brutal and aggressive in their maneuvering and started butchering elders and people started turning away from them.

2. The militancy was disrupting their daily life and they just wanted it to be over.

So why would people want to join with them again after all this time?

Because another Pashtun ethnonationalist rallied them up for it.

That defeats your point because you’re implying they would support it or be inclined to TTP but were protesting against it.

 

[TheSolution]

So why would people want to join with them again after all this time?

Because of Pashtun ethnonationalism - something may not be good for you but sometimes you can't get enough and hope the outcome is different.

Bit like a drug.

That defeats your point because you’re implying they would support it or be inclined to TTP but were protesting against it.

My point was Pashtun ethnonationalism draws them to both ideologies, while it's hypocritical they support both due to that single reason.

It's not uncommon for a PTM supporter to be a TTP supporter, plus they use TTP to build an anti-state narrative.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Because of Pashtun ethnonationalism - something may not be good for you but sometimes you can't get enough and hope the outcome is different.

Bit like a drug.

Why are Pashtun ethnonationalist or Islamist parties not popular in KPK at all?

If Pashtun ethnonationalism is that rampant, then wouldn’t all of KPK be under a massive insurgency?

You keep saying people want to join TTP, but I have never gotten that vibe from anywhere.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

My point was Pashtun ethnonationalism draws them to both ideologies, while it's hypocritical they support both due to that single reason.

It's not uncommon for a PTM supporter to be a TTP supporter, plus they use TTP to build an anti-state narrative.

You were implying that majority of KPK would be inclined to TTP. Both PTM and TTP aren’t popular in KPK. Only PTI is.

Your part about the left wing and right wing of ethnic nationalism egging on each other is correct although I think you are making the mistake of generalizing it on the whole population.

Quetta the biggest political party there is PTI. PTM has significant following in Waziristan, which should be the point of focus as it’s been an insurgency ridden area for the last 20 years.

If what you were saying was true we would see separatist insurgencies in all of KPK and Northern Balochistan.

 

[Zhukov]

If you look at it geographically. You will find an interesting fact.
The filth is always spilling from the direction of southern Afghanistan i.e Kandhar region.
Terrorism, Intrusions, attacks all spill from the southern Afghanistan. and Creeps up. Southern KPK is the hub of terrorism and stronghold of Taliban. And From there Punjab and Sindh are easily accessable.
Northern Afghan border, kabul, Jalalabad etc the area bordering Peshawar is still well managed.

Is it a coincidence that Areas bordering stronghold of Afghan Taliban are the hub of TTP for 2 decades? Check out the map, you will understand what i am talking about.

 

[TheSolution]

You were implying that majority of KPK would be inclined to TTP. Both PTM and TTP aren’t popular in KPK. Only PTI is.

Your part about the left wing and right wing of ethnic nationalism egging on each other is correct although I think you are making the mistake of generalizing it on the whole population.

Quetta the biggest political party there is PTI. PTM has significant following in Waziristan, which should be the point of focus as it’s been an insurgency ridden area for the last 20 years.

If what you were saying was true we would see separatist insurgencies in all of KPK and Northern Balochistan.

I agree tbh I do tend to generalise a bit too much because the situation is much more nuanced.

I think perhaps the majority of Waziristan would be a fairly accurate statement, whereas a substantial minority in KPK anywhere between 10-30% - maybe 40% if we push it?

Although I would say PTI serves as that final straw, meaning they prefer PTI more but PTM/TTP are a strongly preferred alternative.

If you look at it geographically. You will find an interesting fact.
The filth is always spilling from the direction of southern Afghanistan i.e Kandhar region.
Terrorism, Intrusions, attacks all spill from the southern Afghanistan. and Creeps up. Southern KPK is the hub of terrorism and stronghold of Taliban. And From there Punjab and Sindh are easily accessable.
Northern Afghan border, kabul, Jalalabad etc the area bordering Peshawar is still well managed.

Is it a coincidence that Areas bordering stronghold of Afghan Taliban are the hub of TTP for 2 decades? Check out the map, you will understand what i am talking about.

Southern Afghanistan is where the Afghan Pashtun population is concentrated and where the Lar O Barism sentiment stems from, so of course.

I think everyone knew this, not really anything surprising.

 

[Commoner]

WASHINGTON: The outlawed Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) aims to push the government of Pakistan out of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and establish Sharia by waging a terrorist campaign against the military and state, a US State Department report warns.

According to the 2021 Country Reports on Terrorism, the TTP uses the tribal belt along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border to train and deploy its operatives.

TTP draws ideological guidance from Al Qaeda, while elements of AQ rely in part on TTP for safe haven in the Pashtun areas along the Afghan-Pakistan border.

“This arrangement has given TTP access to both AQ’s global terrorist network and its members’ operational expertise.”

The report also names major terrorist groups that focused on conducting attacks in Pakistan, including TTP, the Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA), and the militant Islamic State-Khorasan group (IS-K).

The report on terrorism notes that Pakistan “experienced significant terrorist activity” during the year in review, i.e. 2021.

Underlining the link between terrorism and lack of economic activities, the report points out that “the United States provides assistance to support trade and economic growth” in Pakistan.

The US assistance to Pakistan includes partnering with US businesses, civil society, and the regions bordering Afghanistan.

“This assistance is intended to improve the lives of the Pakistani people and support US objectives,” the report explains.

“The United States continues to support people-to-people exchanges to alleviate misunderstandings and complications in the bilateral relationship.”

In 2021, separatist militant groups conducted terrorist attacks against varied targets in Balochistan and Sindh provinces. Terrorists used a range of tactics

to attack varied targets, including Improvised Explosive Devices, Vehicle Borne Improvised Explosive Devices, suicide bombings, and targeted assassinations.

The report acknowledges that Pakistan took steps in 2021 to counter terror financing and to restrain some India-focused militant groups. Pakistan reviewed and revised its 2015 National Action Plan (NAP) to counter terrorism, reducing the NAP from a 20-point plan to 14 key points.

But the report complains that Pakistan made meagre progress on the most difficult aspects — specifically its pledge to dismantle all terrorist organisations without delay or discrimination.

The report identifies IS-K as another group which poses a significant threat to Pakistan and is composed primarily of former TTP members, the Afghan Taliban, and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan. It is estimated to have between 3,000 and 5,000 fighters and has claimed responsibility for attacks on civilians and government officials in Pakistan.

IS-K, elements of Al Qaeda, and terrorist groups targeting Pakistan, like TTP, have continued to use the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region as a safe haven.

The report notes that Pakistan-focused terrorist groups continue to conduct attacks against Pakistani military and civilian targets.

The report also mentions Pakistan’s pledge to “ensure that no armed militias are allowed to function in the country,” but complains that attackers continued to operate from Pakistani soil in 2021. The report identifies the Haqqani Network, Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (LeT), and Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) as the groups that carry out such attacks.

The report claims that although “Pakistan took some steps in 2021 to counter terror financing and to restrain some India-focused militant groups, authorities did not take sufficient action to dismantle them”.

The report commends Pakistan’s commitment to combat the trafficking of items that could contribute to the development of WMDs and their delivery systems. “Pakistan was a constructive and active participant in IAEA-hosted meetings and in the Global Initiative to Combat Nuclear Terrorism,” it adds.

The report also highlights Washington’s cooperation with Islamabad on regional security and counterterrorism, noting that the US government provides robust law enforcement, counternarcotics, and rule of law assistance for Pakistan, as well as limited defence, counterterrorism, and anti-money laundering assistance.

Published in Dawn, March 1st, 2023

‘TTP wants to push govt out of KP to establish Sharia’

State Department report says the TTP uses the tribal belt along Pak-Afghan border to train and deploy its operatives.

www.dawn.com

@PanzerKiel @Signalian @Mirzali Khan @villageidiot @PakFactor @Meengla @Maula Jatt @Menace2Society

Pervez Hoodhboy had spoken in favour of TTP`s Shariah imposition on 7th Jan, 2023:

Why the TTP is undefeatable

https://www.dawn.com/news/1730342/why-the-ttp-is-undefeatable Why the TTP is undefeatable Pervez Hoodbhoy Published January 7, 2023 Updated a day ago 97 The writer is an Islamabad-based physicist and writer. 1x1.2x1.5x AS the Pakistani Taliban (TTP) ramp up their murderous attacks on...

defence.pk

It makes me wonder if Hoodhboy has any links with TTP. The guy clearly acts as a spokesperson in this article.

 

[Sifar zero]

So you want to say that Pak army somehow is playing a massive double game where it is getting its officers and soldiers killed by TTP to impose same TTP on people where having dozens of guns in their homes is a norm and can easily fight back any proxy if they want to

He is a chutiya leave him.
He watches Adil Raja and Haider Mehdi all day and that has caused irreparable damage to his brain.