Featured TTP Commander Killed in Exchange of Fire at Pak Afghan Border

[CriticalThought]

Ibn Abi Awfa reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “The khawarij are the dogs of Hellfire.”

Source: Sunan Ibn Mājah 173

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Albani

عَنِ ابْنِ أَبِي أَوْفَى قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ الْخَوَارِجُ هُمْ كِلَابُ النَّارِ

173 سنن ابن ماجه كتاب المقدمة باب في ذكر الخوارج

143 المحدث الألباني خلاصة حكم المحدث صحيح في صحيح ابن ماجه


I think that settles how we should refer to these devils.

Hazrat Hakeem-ul-Ummat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi Rahmatullah 'Alaih says that you shouldn't even point at a Kafir and say he/she will go to hellfire, because you don't know he could convert to Islam and become a better Muslim than you. I know @Vapnope has also quoted an Aayah of the Holy Quran. But what you guys are forgetting is that these are words of Allah (Holy Quran) and the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam (Hadith) who have the position and authority to call someone a Kafir, or deserving Hellfire (Ma'aaz Allahi Min Zalik). Also, the Quranic Aayah and the Hadith are not pointing at any one individual. It is a different matter to talk generically about Kuffar, and to point at an individual and pass a judgement. Allah and HIs Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalih Wasallam have the authority to talk generically or specifically. We can only talk in general terms.

Next, it is our belief that if someone dies on Kufr, he/she is destined for an eternity of Hellfire. There are no doubts about this. But we do not waste our time saying the words 'Person X died a Kafir and will go to Hellfire'. Allah and His Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam have not taught us to say such words (as far as my knowledge goes), we will not be questioned in the grave or on the Day of Judgement why we didn't say such words. It is below the stature of a true Muslim to indulge in such talk. Hence my post saying such trite words are below the stature of PanzerKiel. The only exception is where the Holy Quran has named someone. For example, till eternity, Muslims will recite Surah Lahab which talks about Hellfire for Abu Lahab.

And at the very end, there is the matter of someone being a Muslim who recites Kalimah regularly. We know such a person can commit extremely heinous crimes. For example, Islam disallows 'Mislah', that is, dismemberment of a corpse. Thus, when the person who murdered Hazrat Ali May Allah Be Pleased with him was captured, it was decreed that he shall be dismembered while alive. They cut off his hands he didn't cry. They cut off his legs he didn't cry. When they started cutting off his tongue, he started crying. When asked why he is doing this, he replied 'How will I recite Allah's Zikr without my tongue?'. But even for such a person, our scholars have kept completely silent on them, because it is a useless exercise. I hope this explains the matter.

 

[Vapnope]

Hazrat Hakeem-ul-Ummat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi Rahmatullah 'Alaih says that you shouldn't even point at a Kafir and say he/she will go to hellfire, because you don't know he could convert to Islam and become a better Muslim than you. I know @Vapnope has also quoted an Aayah of the Holy Quran. But what you guys are forgetting is that these are words of Allah (Holy Quran) and the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam (Hadith) who have the position and authority to call someone a Kafir, or deserving Hellfire (Ma'aaz Allahi Min Zalik). Also, the Quranic Aayah and the Hadith are not pointing at any one individual. It is a different matter to talk generically about Kuffar, and to point at an individual and pass a judgement. Allah and HIs Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalih Wasallam have the authority to talk generically or specifically. We can only talk in general terms.

Next, it is our belief that if someone dies on Kufr, he/she is destined for an eternity of Hellfire. There are no doubts about this. But we do not waste our time saying the words 'Person X died a Kafir and will go to Hellfire'. Allah and His Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam have not taught us to say such words (as far as my knowledge goes), we will not be questioned in the grave or on the Day of Judgement why we didn't say such words. It is below the stature of a true Muslim to indulge in such talk. Hence my post saying such trite words are below the stature of PanzerKiel. The only exception is where the Holy Quran has named someone. For example, till eternity, Muslims will recite Surah Lahab which talks about Hellfire for Abu Lahab.

And at the very end, there is the matter of someone being a Muslim who recites Kalimah regularly. We know such a person can commit extremely heinous crimes. For example, Islam disallows 'Mislah', that is, dismemberment of a corpse. Thus, when the person who murdered Hazrat Ali May Allah Be Pleased with him was captured, it was decreed that he shall be dismembered while alive. They cut off his hands he didn't cry. They cut off his legs he didn't cry. When they started cutting off his tongue, he started crying. When asked why he is doing this, he replied 'How will I recite Allah's Zikr without my tongue?'. But even for such a person, our scholars have kept completely silent on them, because it is a useless exercise. I hope this explains the matter.

I am not sure how you and war thunder got a feeling that i called him or anyone kafir. All i said that we can judge him being a good guy or a bad guy by his obvious deeds (killing innocents). I am not deciding anyone's faith or destination here.

 

[CriticalThought]

I am not sure how you and war thunder got a feeling that i called him or anyone kafir. All i said that we can judge him being a good guy or a bad guy by his obvious deeds (killing innocents). I am not deciding anyone's faith or destination here.

Janab, even judgement is not our prerogative. Silence is the better patter of wisdom in this case. But by means, judge the actions he performed. Decry the killing of innocent civilians and our valiant soldiers. But don't point fingers at an individual and pass judgement.

Now, of course, there is the case where religious scholars issue a Fatwa declaring someone to be Kafir, Zindeeq etc. But that is because it that person is spreading Fitnah, and it is the prerogative of religious scholars to issue such a Fatwa.

 

[Vapnope]

Janab, even judgement is not our prerogative

So we should not judge and hence police, army and LEAs should refrain from killing them? And courts should not sentence them after no one can judge them, yes?

 

[CriticalThought]

So we should not judge and hence police, army and LEAs should refrain from killing them? And courts should not sentence them after no one can judge them, yes?

Wrong conclusion. 'To judge' here means using your tongue to express your opinion about someone going to hell, or being Kafir whereas this person has never with his own tongue rejected Islam, or regularly recites the Kalimah. Yes, certain actions can throw one out of Islam, but let religious scholars decide that.

The courts judge, not a person, but his actions. The LEAs kill people on orders from superiors who take the decision based on evidence that someone is a threat to security and the life/property of countrymen. They don't take action based on whether someone should go to Hell.

 

[GiG]

I doubt it. I have reason to believe we are using drones for recon missions on pak-afg border but dont know about drones being used in balochistan or kpk. Heck we dont even use armed drones in Balochistan and kpk, afghan border is still a long shot.

Were can i get more information about these bombing missions?

Some public info:https://www.dawn.com/news/630575/paf-in-action-against-kabul

 

[Vapnope]

Wrong conclusion. 'To judge' here means using your tongue to express your opinion about someone going to hell, or being Kafir whereas this person has never with his own tongue rejected Islam, or regularly recites the Kalimah. Yes, certain actions can throw one out of Islam, but let religious scholars decide that.

The courts judge, not a person, but his actions. The LEAs kill people on orders from superiors who take the decision based on evidence that someone is a threat to security and the life/property of countrymen. They don't take action based on whether someone should go to Hell.

Sir, i categorically denied calling anyone kafir. My comments are there, Pls refer that again.I judged him on his action not on his belief.