Truth always hurts

[abrakadabra]

...trust me like you don't think of us as a "THREAT" i can assure you china doesn't think of you as a threat....

Zob,

All the three countries (Pakisthan, India and China) are capable of inflicting unacceptable damage to their enemies (at least those in physical proximity), and hence the question of China and India not counting India and Pakisthan respectively as potent enemies does not araise.

Let me also answer why India tries to match China in military capabilities. This is because India and China are competing for bigger international and strategic aspirations. Like they both are looking towards Africa (for Oil) etc., China is also trying to encircle India by establishing bases in Burma, SriLanka, Pakisthan etc. This powerplay is driven by economic aspirations, not military aspirations. India needs to match-up with China and cannot afford to unconditionlly let China take lead and expand its lead even further.

India-Pakisthan equation is more driven by fears related to physical invasion and mistrust.

I do not mean to say that physical threats could be neglected, but request Pakistani members to understand and appreciate Indias aspirations also. Please do not see everything India does as "Pakisthani centric".

 

[Zob]

Pakisthani centric

abrakahahbsakbx or whoever you are it is PAKISTAN...not something else.....understand.....!!!!!!!

 

[Bane Blade]

^^What a waste of bandwidth...

You can't exactly say that specially since NDTV is online.

 

[Zob]

You can't exactly say that specially since NDTV is online.

 

[white_pawn]

abrakadabra, till certain extent i do agree with you, but one cannot deny the fact that India do conside Pakistan as a threat. As for what you said about India and China related things your right about that but i dont think China consider India a threat as a threat at the level at which India consider China.

China's intrest is more consentrated on Tiwan at the moment, but that dons'nt mean India should Ignore or side line china thats for sure.

 

[blain2]

Change is an integral part of nature and human development. Pak army's mentality of being india centric is redundant and a major part of their failure for not finishing up the job in the shortest possible time. They will make pakistan pay heavily for their failures.

I disagree. This issue should not be oversimplified to suggest that since Pakistan's threat perception is India-centric, Pakistan will not be able to fight off the insurgency. There is an effort in place to mold Pakistani defence posture without taking into consideration, Pakistan's strategic interests.

For as long as the Kashmir issue is not resolved, talking about re-orienting the Army and Pakistan's threat perception is a non-starter. People should realize that Pakistan is currently putting 2 Divisions worth of troops through CI training which allows almost 3 to 4 Bns available at any given time for CI operations. This is a pretty large force in a very large Army. However the bulk of the force will retain its focus on the Indian threat and the Pakistan Army can do both. However what would help is if there are effective CBMs in place that allow for a building block approach in dealing with the Kashmir issue. Pakistan would like nothing better than to have this issue resolved and not have to worry about a country 10x its size. However given the ground realities and Indian interests in Afghanistan and stance on Kashmir, Pakistan cannot be expected to lower her guard. This is something that should be very clear to all Pakistanis at least.

Pakistan Army has fought CI campaigns in the past. Admittedly the nature of this one is different but so too were the two major ones in the past (Balochistan and EP). So I will stick to my guns on the assessment that Pakistan Army has the ability and the wherewithal to fight the Taliban threat. If India does something like easing of troops deployment on her western borders then it would be welcome
however in the absence of it, Pakistan will not lower her guard to cater to an insurgency which requires a very good (albeit complex) combination of political fineness and military firepower to handle (this is not to discount military action, that must be taken as it is being done now, but all in appropriate proportions as unlike the ISAF/US in Afghanistan, Pakistan has to live with this population in the future as well).

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Blain,

I agree with you to disagree. You see, in any situation, time holds utmost importance. Any millitary excursion at hand has to be completed in a certain acceptable time frame. After that, you have to fight monsters and demons that you would never want to face in the first place.

Regardless of what pak army was trained in---the bottomline is that it has come out second best from its encounters with the taliban. All the assaults on enemy positions by the pak army were left incomplete, the mission left hanging up in the air, the enemy left to walk away for free to strike again.

It does not take any training for a pro-active millitary with pro-active thinkers in its command structure to assess the situation and neutralize the taliban / al qaeda 6 years ago. It was a lack of will power and stubbornness on part of the pak millitary officers to change their stance.

Pak millitary generals didnot have to go far in their research---they could have picked out the history of any insurgency under any muslim ruler throughout the history of islam and seen what was done to squelch the uprising. They could have talked to the troops and officers and shared with them the historical facts to get them mentally prepared for a different kind of war---.

But I guess not---pak millitary generals want to re-write a new history for muslims---I guess they never thought of the significance of leaving a ' what kind of legacy behind '.

 

[araz]

The Nuclear bit is overplayed. Once used, it loses its relevance.

As regards buying weapons etc, Pak has only India to fear while India has more than Pak. Add to this its regional intentions / aspirations..

Seen from a Pak perspective , the above statement may seem correct but not when seen from an Indian one.

A strong boundary wall is essential to sleep well.

My friend
The nuclear bit is not overplayed. It is precisely the factor which has prevented India from carrying out misadventures against Pakistan.
I agree that India has a fear of China as well as pakistan. But why is it so? It could easily have settled its outstanding disputes with the 2 Governments and then there would be no need to fear anybody. To my humble eye it seems you want to have your cake and eat it too. It may be right from your perspective but not from ours. You have talked about a boundary wall. When a boundry wall has been erected on land that does not belong to you; under false pretexts, then there will never be any restful sleep. Basic honesty will give you the sleep that you want.
Therein lies the problem
Araz

 

[Neo]

Is Zardari For Last Time in America? ​

5 May, 2009
by Ali Yar Khan

President Asif Ali Zardari is very fond of writing and making history and it’s his ambition to do something which would write his name forever in the history. He doesn’t want to get lost in the annals of the history anonymously. He wants to be bigger than his father in law and his wife, and he has already made many blunders and bloopers in his quest to get out of his skin. In the way, he has already struck many blows to the country he rules and considers it his eternal right to rule.

America has correctly identified the root cause of the problem with Pakistan. Barack H. Obama is an intelligent man and there are some sources who says that he is on the 31st degree of the Free Messanics and needs just one degree to get on the top. But his assertion about the Pakistan is spot on. His assertion that the problem with Pakistan lies in its weak and dysfunctional civilian government which is incapable of delivering even the basic things of life to the people. Barack has absolved the military and intelligence leadership of the country and has accused that it is due to the lack of leadership and civilian governance that Pakistan is in such a dire situation.

It is in this backdrop that the Zardari is visiting America. Huge pressure has already been built up for him and now it’s just a matter of time before he is told either to deliver or to quit and this time even NRO won’t help him out. America is going to give last chance to Zardaro to deliver and the timeline is also very short and tight for the widower of Benazir Bhutto.

 

[third eye]

My friend
The nuclear bit is not overplayed. It is precisely the factor which has prevented India from carrying out misadventures against Pakistan.
I agree that India has a fear of China as well as pakistan. But why is it so? It could easily have settled its outstanding disputes with the 2 Governments and then there would be no need to fear anybody. To my humble eye it seems you want to have your cake and eat it too. It may be right from your perspective but not from ours. You have talked about a boundary wall. When a boundry wall has been erected on land that does not belong to you; under false pretexts, then there will never be any restful sleep. Basic honesty will give you the sleep that you want.
Therein lies the problem
Araz

How much has changed in the Indo -Pak context ever since the nukes came ? War I feel has been avoided less coz of the nukes & more out of economic & international Pol compulsions.

Seen from an India perspective , it has achieved more by not going to war than it would have by going to war while Pak feels secure behind its nukes.

As rgds settling boundary disputes, you are right we both see things from our own points of view. Given the deep entrenched grudges that exist, if it was not the boundary there would be something else. How else could the PA justify its hold on the nation if there were no threat ?

So far as China is concerned, its a delicate game of chess thats being played. Nothing serious shall happen in the foreseeable future - both are preparing themselves for 2025 & beyond.

 

[Bane Blade]

Is Zardari For Last Time in America? ​

5 May, 2009
by Ali Yar Khan

President Asif Ali Zardari is very fond of writing and making history and it’s his ambition to do something which would write his name forever in the history. He doesn’t want to get lost in the annals of the history anonymously. He wants to be bigger than his father in law and his wife, and he has already made many blunders and bloopers in his quest to get out of his skin. In the way, he has already struck many blows to the country he rules and considers it his eternal right to rule.

America has correctly identified the root cause of the problem with Pakistan. Barack H. Obama is an intelligent man and there are some sources who says that he is on the 31st degree of the Free Messanics and needs just one degree to get on the top. But his assertion about the Pakistan is spot on. His assertion that the problem with Pakistan lies in its weak and dysfunctional civilian government which is incapable of delivering even the basic things of life to the people. Barack has absolved the military and intelligence leadership of the country and has accused that it is due to the lack of leadership and civilian governance that Pakistan is in such a dire situation.

It is in this backdrop that the Zardari is visiting America. Huge pressure has already been built up for him and now it’s just a matter of time before he is told either to deliver or to quit and this time even NRO won’t help him out. America is going to give last chance to Zardaro to deliver and the timeline is also very short and tight for the widower of Benazir Bhutto.

It would be difficult for Zardari to leave the powerfull chair because even if he is on the verge of him being posed as weak he someohow manages to stand firm in which I think that America directly orders him to take action, I think Obama administration knows when under pressure Zardari will listen to them blindly and that aspect they can't find in all leaders.