Trump 'signs off' on deal to pause US-China trade war

[KungFuLee]

did you forgot China put tariff on US product as well? your example did not include how you slapped the shop manager.

You intentionally neglected the fact what China is doing against US, what's for?

You do know US tariff 350 billions Chinese product. While China tariff 75 billions US product. Even half, you still have around 165 billions worth of product to tariff for the US. Where China did not even want to start the next round as reported.

You want to play the tariff game, you will lose, there are more Chinese product to tariff for the US than if we switch side, don't forget how this trade war started to begin with? Trade imbalance.

by the way, even in a you tax, he tax situation, and even if Chinese Tariff goes as high as the US one, you are only able to cancel that effect and you still on hook for 50 billions worth of farming production you have no interest to buy to begin with, so no matter how you slice your angle, China is still behind and US is still ahead in this deal if they really do sign it.

That is why I don't understand why you guys jump for joy for this deal, this is a bad deal for China.

 

[vi-va]

You do know US tariff 350 billions Chinese product. While China tariff 75 billions US product. Even half, you still have around 165 billions worth of product to tariff for the US. Where China did not even want to start the next round as reported.

You want to play the tariff game, you will lose, there are more Chinese product to tariff for the US than if we switch side, don't forget how this trade war started to begin with? Trade imbalance.

by the way, even in a you tax, he tax situation, and even if Chinese Tariff goes as high as the US one, you are only able to cancel that effect and you still on hook for 50 billions worth of farming production you have no interest to buy to begin with, so no matter how you slice your angle, China is still behind and US is still ahead in this deal if they really do sign it.

That is why I don't understand why you guys jump for joy for this deal, this is a bad deal for China.

Wait, so you mean the trade imbalance is fixed by your so called one side winning? I think China is still trade surplus, and getting hundreds of billions each year.

Trump put tariff on all Chinese goods, who paid the tariff? US consumers, it's taxing the US ordinary consumers.

US gini index is not good. Trump decreased corporate tax, and taxing the ordinary consumers. Good strategy, oh yeah!

 

[beijingwalker]

Americans are more and more like China's farmers. A country's future will look good just selling farm products.

 

[KungFuLee]

Wait, so you mean the trade imbalance is fixed by your so called one side winning? I think China is still trade surplus, and getting hundreds of billions each year.

Trump put tariff on all Chinese goods, who paid the tariff? US consumers, it's taxing the US ordinary consumers.

lol that is where you got it wrong.

Tariff is never a measure on decreasing someone's import, rather, tariff is the tool of a trade war, ie make you do what I want you to do. The reason why China is have trade surplus is because it is still cheaper for the supplier to get Chinese good then to source elsewhere. The selling price in the US does not increase, rather is the profit margin of the supplier, both US and China have to make up the difference.

Why? Because tax was charge before the goods change hand in the US, that's why it was called import tax, either the supplier does not have good profit margin, which would leads to increasing the selling price of Chinese import in the US, which make it less favourable, or they take a cut of their profit margin, which if they are still more profitable then shifting, then they will continue to import from China.

What the government do is that it will take a cut regardless of who's paying, however, when the government take a cut, they will provide relief for local supplier who are affected (because that was supposed to be their money too) so, in this case, local US buyer was not affected, because the selling price remain the same, local US supplier does not affected, because of government relief, and the only party in this transaction who pay tax to US government and were not reimbursed is the Chinese supplier.

Now, this also happen to China when China tax US import, however, the imbalance now come into play, again, because China export more stuff to the US then vice versa, which mean China will have less tax revenue from the tariff, which mean less compensation than the tax the Chinese supplier have to pay, which put pressure to Chinese government.

Now do you know how charging tariff works?

US gini index is not good. Trump decreased corporate tax, and taxing the ordinary consumers. Good strategy, oh yeah!

What's Gini coefficient have to do with this? This is about purchasing power, not wealth inequality.

Americans are more and more like China's farmers. A country's future will look good just selling farm products.

Farm product is very important. I can live without internet, computer, gaming console or any technology, I cannot live without food.

The reason why US export a lot of farm product is because of their policy to over produce farming product as a strategical reserve, I think it was actually quite smart.

In fact, if a country import a lot of farming product, that is actually very not good. because it will be susceptible to political blackmail. I mean if China have to import 50 billions of food, if there are war or natural disaster happening in China tomorrow, how or where people find anything to eat if they did not have a surplus and have to rely on buying food from outside world?

 

[beijingwalker]

The reason why US export a lot of farm product is because of their policy to over produce farming product as a strategical reserve, I think it was actually quite smart.

In fact, if a country import a lot of farming product, that is actually very not good. because it will be susceptible to political blackmail. I mean if China have to import 50 billions of food, if there are war or natural disaster happening in China tomorrow, how or where people find anything to eat if they did not have a surplus and have to rely on buying food from outside world?

China is still the world top food producer, also China produces half of worldwide vegetables and 30% of fruit, China was food self reliant in the 1980's and even exported a lot of food back then, later on we found the profit for food is way smaller than indutrial products and we switched from an agricultural nation to an industrial nation, if China wants, with modern farming technology, China can achieve total food self reliance again in no time. the reason why Chinese farmers stop growing food is because food is so cheap and they all turned to business which help them make more money, so we need foreign farmers, like, Americans.

 

[vi-va]

lol that is where you got it wrong.

Tariff is never a measure on decreasing someone's import, rather, tariff is the tool of a trade war, ie make you do what I want you to do. The reason why China is have trade surplus is because it is still cheaper for the supplier to get Chinese good then to source elsewhere. The selling price in the US does not increase, rather is the profit margin of the supplier, both US and China have to make up the difference.

Why? Because tax was charge before the goods change hand in the US, that's why it was called import tax, either the supplier does not have good profit margin, which would leads to increasing the selling price of Chinese import in the US, which make it less favourable, or they take a cut of their profit margin, which if they are still more profitable then shifting, then they will continue to import from China.

What the government do is that it will take a cut regardless of who's paying, however, when the government take a cut, they will provide relief for local supplier who are affected (because that was supposed to be their money too) so, in this case, local US buyer was not affected, because the selling price remain the same, local US supplier does not affected, because of government relief, and the only party in this transaction who pay tax to US government and were not reimbursed is the Chinese supplier.

Now, this also happen to China when China tax US import, however, the imbalance now come into play, again, because China export more stuff to the US then vice versa, which mean China will have less tax revenue from the tariff, which mean less compensation than the tax the Chinese supplier have to pay, which put pressure to Chinese government.

Now do you know how charging tariff works?



What's Gini coefficient have to do with this? This is about purchasing power, not wealth inequality.



Farm product is very important. I can live without internet, computer, gaming console or any technology, I cannot live without food.

The reason why US export a lot of farm product is because of their policy to over produce farming product as a strategical reserve, I think it was actually quite smart.

In fact, if a country import a lot of farming product, that is actually very not good. because it will be susceptible to political blackmail. I mean if China have to import 50 billions of food, if there are war or natural disaster happening in China tomorrow, how or where people find anything to eat if they did not have a surplus and have to rely on buying food from outside world?

Your logic may persuade Trump supporter, but it's artificial. Did you know how much China offered Trump during his visit to China in 2017? 200 billions purchase without fighting a tariff war, including farm products.

Now after this tariff war, how much Trump gain?
lost house of representatives
lost many corporation support.
what is worse, lost the momentum of economy growth. Before tariff war, US interest rate is going up, sucking money back to US. Not long after tariff war begin, US interest rate going down, money flow out.
How much national debt increased in recent 3 years after Trump took charge of the white house?

https://www.thebalance.com/trump-plans-to-reduce-national-debt-4114401
You guys lack of the strategic thinking, like rest of most Americans. You can get part of the facts, and full fill your winning, but forget the whole picture, a much bigger picture.

Trump is the worst president in US history. and blinded Americans being fooled, and may continued be fooled for another 5 years.

Good luck to you guys.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[beijingwalker]

I beilieve the trade deficit US suffers against China can only widen after this deal in the coming years, I could be wrong, let's wait and see.

 

[Han Patriot]

Yeah, it's 50% cut and suspension of new tariff, it was the same Phase 1 deal from Trump the Chinese rejected back in October.

He tried to bargain too much, most analyst said he blinked and lost. China needs pork anyway, i for one had been supportive to make US our cheap farmland and resource center, pork beef n grain is actually cheaper in US than US, farm subsidies is supporting this.

Yeah, it's 50% cut and suspension of new tariff, it was the same Phase 1 deal from Trump the Chinese rejected back in October.

He tried to bargain too much, most analyst said he blinked and lost. China needs pork anyway, i for one had been supportive to make US our cheap farmland and resource center, pork beef n grain is actually cheaper in US than US, farm subsidies is supporting this.

 

[KungFuLee]

Your logic may persuade Trump supporter, but it's artificial. Did you know how much China offered Trump during his visit to China in 2017? 200 billions purchase without fighting a tariff war, including farm products.

Now after this tariff war, how much Trump gain?
lost house of representatives
lost many corporation support.
what is worse, lost the momentum of economy growth. Before tariff war, US interest rate is going up, sucking money back to US. Not long after tariff war begin, US interest rate going down, money flow out.
How much national debt increased in recent 3 years after Trump took charge of the white house?
View attachment 593741
View attachment 593740
https://www.thebalance.com/trump-plans-to-reduce-national-debt-4114401
You guys lack of the strategic thinking, like rest of most Americans. You can get part of the facts, and full fill your winning, but forget the whole picture, a much bigger picture.

Trump is the worst president in US history. and blinded Americans being fooled, and may continued be fooled for another 5 years.

Good luck to you guys.
View attachment 593742
https://www.usdebtclock.org/

First of all, trade war did not start in 2017, Trade war started on 2018. So whatever China offer Trump in 2017 is basically, beside the point.

And then majority of your post does not relate to the trade war at all. I mean what does US national debt have anything to do with the trade war?

If you want to comment on this particular deal, I am all for it, but going deep into unrelated territories, well, I don't have to indulge with.

Also, your financial knowledge are well. I don't think it does exist.

interest rate up mean the government encourage people to save money, meaning money flowing inward. Interest rate down mean people try to borrow money, which mean money flowing outward, it does not mean money flowing in or out of US.

And I am not an American. I am just saying China got a bitter end of this deal, which you still yet to counter.

He tried to bargain too much, most analyst said he blinked and lost. China needs pork anyway, i for one had been supportive to make US our cheap farmland and resource center, pork beef n grain is actually cheaper in US than US, farm subsidies is supporting this.

it's not about this. Most analyst know the 50 billions AR product is just a way US want China to make up the different, many people think China do not need nor able to digest 50 billions product.

Also, I don't know why you and @beijingwalker both say US farmer depend on China and this is a good thing. China is not even in top 3 of US farming product export. China was behind EU, Canada and Mexico. And again, excessive food is a plus in strategic point of view, I mean, a country always need a food surplus, the moment you buy food product from overseas, you depend on foreign supplier, which mean you don't have access to sustainable food storage in case of something like war or famine or any natural disaster happens, and China is very natural disaster prone with Typhoon in South East, Earthquake in the north. And that is a very bad thing.

China is still the world top food producer, also China produces half of worldwide vegetables and 30% of fruit, China was food self reliant in the 1980's and even exported a lot of food back then, later on we found the profit for food is way smaller than indutrial products and we switched from an agricultural nation to an industrial nation, if China wants, with modern farming technology, China can achieve total food self reliance again in no time. the reason why Chinese farmers stop growing food is because food is so cheap and they all turned to business which help them make more money, so we need foreign farmers, like, Americans.

You know it is a contradiction in term to say China have sustainable food product and on the other hand, buy basic food such as soybean.

Also, large production does not mean you would have sustainable food storage to set aside, you also need to remember, Chinese population are very big. Production is large, but also consumption is large.

And finally, I am not talking about lack of production where you need to catch up, strategic food storage was in use when there is a national emergency, and China, like US, are natural disaster prone, with Typhoon in the Southern Eastern part, and Earthquake in the northern China.

 

[vi-va]

First of all, trade war did not start in 2017, Trade war started on 2018. So whatever China offer Trump in 2017 is basically, beside the point.

And then majority of your post does not relate to the trade war at all. I mean what does US national debt have anything to do with the trade war?

If you want to comment on this particular deal, I am all for it, but going deep into unrelated territories, well, I don't have to indulge with.

Also, your financial knowledge are well. I don't think it does exist.

interest rate up mean the government encourage people to save money, meaning money flowing inward. Interest rate down mean people try to borrow money, which mean money flowing outward, it does not mean money flowing in or out of US.

And I am not an American. I am just saying China got a bitter end of this deal, which you still yet to counter.



it's not about this. Most analyst know the 50 billions AR product is just a way US want China to make up the different, many people think China do not need nor able to digest 50 billions product.

Also, I don't know why you and @beijingwalker both say US farmer depend on China and this is a good thing. China is not even in top 3 of US farming product export. China was behind EU, Canada and Mexico. And again, excessive food is a plus in strategic point of view, I mean, a country always need a food surplus, the moment you buy food product from overseas, you depend on foreign supplier, which mean you don't have access to sustainable food storage in case of something like war or famine or any natural disaster happens, and China is very natural disaster prone with Typhoon in South East, Earthquake in the north. And that is a very bad thing.



You know it is a contradiction in term to say China have sustainable food product and on the other hand, buy basic food such as soybean.

Also, large production does not mean you would have sustainable food storage to set aside, you also need to remember, Chinese population are very big. Production is large, but also consumption is large.

And finally, I am not talking about lack of production where you need to catch up, strategic food storage was in use when there is a national emergency, and China, like US, are natural disaster prone, with Typhoon in the Southern Eastern part, and Earthquake in the northern China.

Your national debt increase is the cost to run your empire. The trade war decreased your empire growth rate, which forced Trump to use more financial deficit to support his voter base. How much deficit in Trump first term? 5 trillions. No one with a right mind will believe US will pay off the debt, it's just a matter of time when the debt bomb explode.
Without fighting a trade war, you can almost the same economy benefit, and control your deficit. It means US empire can last a little bit longer.
Trump exhausted US empire for a few bucks, and ignore the long term issue, a much bigger issue.
Those Trump supporter hate Clinton for good reasons, because your so call US democracy is deeply corrupted, and almost all US politicians are b*tch of billionaires. Americans people knew it, everyone else knew it. Only brainless HK rioters don't know it.

 

[Han Patriot]

And I am not an American. I am just saying China got a bitter end of this deal, which you still yet to counter.

it's not about this. Most analyst know the 50 billions AR product is just a way US want China to make up the different, many people think China do not need nor able to digest 50 billions product..

Bitter end of the deal? We still have a few hundred bil in surplus genius. Buying AGRI products which we really need now is a blessing to reduce inflation. And what's wrong in trying to balanve trade? We cannot and should not have a huge surplus, the trade war was not about just surpluses, it was about forced tech transfers and the rise of tech China. Since the start of the war China had already indicated the willingness to buy more gas oil and agri products. But we do not agree on extrajudiciary American oversight. This was a threat to our sovereignity.

Also, I don't know why you and @beijingwalker both say US farmer depend on China and this is a good thing. China is not even in top 3 of US farming product export. China was behind EU, Canada and Mexico. And again, excessive food is a plus in strategic point of view, I mean, a country always need a food surplus, the moment you buy food product from overseas, you depend on foreign supplier, which mean you don't have access to sustainable food storage in case of something like war or famine or any natural disaster happens, and China is very natural disaster prone with Typhoon in South East, Earthquake in the north. And that is a very bad thing.

Chinese agriculture unlike US agriculture is highly fragmented and inefficient. China has a red line in self sufficiency around 95% for basic grains. But this is not enough to feed the appetite of our middle class consumers, we need meat and dairy on a large scale, only US and Russia can satisfy us. We are not Indians surviving on dhal and roti, the average Chinese consume meat daily, eat alot of soymilk, our environment and land cannot support this. Check who is the largest impprter of US grain.

Also, large production does not mean you would have sustainable food storage to set aside, you also need to remember, Chinese population are very big. Production is large, but also consumption is large.

And finally, I am not talking about lack of production where you need to catch up, strategic food storage was in use when there is a national emergency, and China, like US, are natural disaster prone, with Typhoon in the Southern Eastern part, and Earthquake in the northern China.

Do you who has the biggest grain reserve and meat reserve on earth boy genius?

 

[KungFuLee]

Your national debt increase is the cost to run your empire. The trade war decreased your empire growth rate, which forced Trump to use more financial deficit to support his voter base. How much deficit in Trump first term? 5 trillions. No one with a right mind will believe US will pay off the debt, it's just a matter of time when the debt bomb explode.
Without fighting a trade war, you can almost the same economy benefit, and control your deficit. It means US empire can last a little bit longer.
Trump exhausted US empire for a few bucks, and ignore the long term issue, a much bigger issue.
Those Trump supporter hate Clinton for good reasons, because your so call US democracy is deeply corrupted, and almost all US politicians are b*tch of billionaires. Americans people knew it, everyone else knew it. Only brainless HK rioters don't know it.

First of all, I am not an American, why you keep saying "My national debt clock"? I am a Hong Konger, last time I check, we have 300 billions USD surplus.

And the second thing is, what that have to do with China signing a deal that was not favourable to them. I don't see you target the issue, rather, you discuss how much US is in debt, and how US economy is slowing down. If you know anything about finance and economy, you will know US are always going to be in debt, why? Because the world uses US dollars, not just the American, US dollar is the nominal reserve currency with a 68% rate, which mean unless US print enough money for the world, it will always going to be in debt. And US cannot print enough money for the world, otherwise US Dollar would have the amount of a toilet paper.

But then again, this have nothing to do with this deal and how it is unfavourable if they sign it. Which I still have not heard any argument from you.

Bitter end of the deal? We still have a few hundred bil in surplus genius. Buying AGRI products which we really need now is a blessing to reduce inflation. And what's wrong in trying to balanve trade? We cannot and should not have a huge surplus, the trade war was not about just surpluses, it was about forced tech transfers and the rise of tech China. Since the start of the war China had already indicated the willingness to buy more gas oil and agri products. But we do not agree on extrajudiciary American oversight. This was a threat to our sovereignity.

Is it a good deal tho?

Using my stereo buying example again, if I go to a store and wanting to buy a $100 stereo, when I pay for the purchase, the store owner said you need to get the TV and the Speaker with that stereo or else the stereo will be $120. And then he offer me a deal saying I can buy the stereo for $110 if I just get the TV. Is it a good deal or the store owner railroad me into buying the stereo more expensive with a TV I don't need?

Now, I am China, the store owner is US, now tell me, if China have a good deal?

The moment China agree to a term, it has been in the bitter end of the deal, because I don't see what China can get? Not reforming the SOE? The Chinese won't do it with or without the trade war anyway. Respect IP right? Again, the Chinese won't do it with or without the trade war anyway. So what China "gain" after the trade war if they indeed sign the deal? They got railroaded by the American to buy 50 billions worth of farming product they do not need or wanted.

Chinese agriculture unlike US agriculture is highly fragmented and inefficient. China has a red line in self sufficiency around 95% for basic grains. But this is not enough to feed the appetite of our middle class consumers, we need meat and dairy on a large scale, only US and Russia can satisfy us. We are not Indians surviving on dhal and roti, the average Chinese consume meat daily, eat alot of soymilk, our environment and land cannot support this. Check who is the largest impprter of US grain.

You know the US strategic food reserve is 200-250% of production or 1 months worth of the entire population. If Chinese production is at 95%, it is not a surplus.....

If the Chinese consumer consume more food product (Any food product, not just grain and rice) that is the definition of not being able to sustain.

Do you who has the biggest grain reserve and meat reserve on earth boy genius?

And do you know who have the biggest population in the world, genius?

The Chinese have to have the biggest grain reserve because China have the world largest population. Say China have 200 millions tons reserve, US only have 50 millions tons (arbitrary figure, don't quote me on it) China have a bigger reserve than the US, however, that reserve will last the same time as the US because while it is 4 times bigger, Chinese population is also 4 times bigger.

Have you ever wonder why China, India, Russia and the United States are the top 4 grain production? That's because these 4 country have the world top 4 biggest population.

 

[Han Patriot]

Is it a good deal tho?

Using my stereo buying example again, if I go to a store and wanting to buy a $100 stereo, when I pay for the purchase, the store owner said you need to get the TV and the Speaker with that stereo or else the stereo will be $120. And then he offer me a deal saying I can buy the stereo for $110 if I just get the TV. Is it a good deal or the store owner railroad me into buying the stereo more expensive with a TV I don't need?

Now, I am China, the store owner is US, now tell me, if China have a good deal?

No no let me switch the position, the store owner is China, he sells a radio for 100$, and makes a profit if 50$ selling it. The customer is pissed but is forced to buy it year after year, he takes a gun and a knjfe out and tries to rob the shop keeper, the shop keeper takes out his shot gun in return. In the end the shop keepers is still holding his gun but the customer cum robber takes back his knife. The shopkeeper gives him a 10$ discount. Lol

The moment China agree to a term, it has been in the bitter end of the deal, because I don't see what China can get? Not reforming the SOE? The Chinese won't do it with or without the trade war anyway. Respect IP right? Again, the Chinese won't do it with or without the trade war anyway. So what China "gain" after the trade war if they indeed sign the deal? They got railroaded by the American to buy 50 billions worth of farming product they do not need or wanted.

Ooooo the need for US food is real my friend. You have no idea, the pork prices went up 110% after the pig flu. Alot of farmers are old n retired. Due to small plot if land, productivity is low. We need land consolidation, US is our resource center, thats the only way to balance the trade. Let me tell you something, if Chinese were dumb, we wouldnt be where we are today Jhungary. Lol

You know the US strategic food reserve is 200-250% of production or 1 months worth of the entire population. If Chinese production is at 95%, it is not a surplus.....

If the Chinese consumer consume more food product (Any food product, not just grain and rice) that is the definition of not being able to sustain.
.

Which is what I just told you right? We are consuming like the Americans now, it's not sustainable, less productive land ia being converted into forest. Buying US food to satisfy none core food is the way forward. 95% grain sufficiency is the minimum requirement, and we import from Brazil and others too. We are simply the world's largest consumer market bhai.

And do you know who have the biggest population in the world, genius?

The Chinese have to have the biggest grain reserve because China have the world largest population. Say China have 200 millions tons reserve, US only have 50 millions tons (arbitrary figure, don't quote me on it) China have a bigger reserve than the US, however, that reserve will last the same time as the US because while it is 4 times bigger, Chinese population is also 4 times bigger.

Have you ever wonder why China, India, Russia and the United States are the top 4 grain production? That's because these 4 country have the world top 4 biggest population.

There you go genius, you were saying we didnt have adequate storage, i am telling you we do have the largesr storage and being the smart *** answered your own question, because we have the largest pop. Common sense isnt it?

 

[Bogeyman]

Petrochemical trends of 2020 under the shadow of trade wars between the US and China
https://www.spglobal.com/platts/pla...icals/global-petrochemical-trends-h1-2020.pdf