Trump says U.S. won’t sell F-35 fighter jets to Turkey

[Rana4pak]

Well, nothing surprising here. As I said before , Trump is not a politician or diplomat by career unlike other past US Presidents and he has never held a political position before, add to that the fact that he got quite a temper and character. He is quite straight and direct in his dealings with others and often does what he says. So i believe nobody should be surprised that Turkey has been removed from the F-35 program. Since Trump explicitly said he will kick Turkey out of the project if they bought Russian S-400.

HOWEVER, I believe the biggest winner here is Putin/Russia. He has managed to wrest control of his client state Syria and relegated Turkey/ Western powers and others role in the country to a minimum. He has also got Turkey to shift it stance Vis a Vis Russia in the middle East and Syria in particular, add to that Turkey soaring relations with the West and now this news. It solidifies Russia's position in the region and pulls Turkey away from the West to some extent. However that doesn't means Turkey will cut all ties with the West(most of Turkeys economy is geared towards the West for example.) but it will limit Turkey's position in the Western alliance and might lead to a situation where Turkey is in neither camp (East or West) and might be more of an outlier.
However Turkey will still be abit more tilted towards the West and will remain in NATO, except something spectacular happens(which I think is unlikely) .
As for the US t, don't have much to lose in this to be honest, Granted it might affect US footprint in Syria/Iraq to a lesser extent(that's if Turkey decides to retaliate by kicking US/NATO presence in Turkey, which I find unlikely as this will only make things worse for both sides) but nothing major that the US can't quickly replace given her massive military presence in the middle East and relations with several allies.


I believe he is right to some extent. Turkey being removed from the F-35 program and maybe sanctions following this will affect Turkey quite significantly. For one they have lost access to one of the most advanced fighter jets in service on earth. You should know that not every country is privileged to have access to such an advanced western fighter jet program. Many countries would even like to buy this fighter jet off the shelf m(but they have been denied even this) taking part in its building. Turkey would have been the only Muslim country to be part of such an advanced fighter jet by not only having one but also taking part in its building, something that would have had long term effects on the country's military industry, technology,geo political position and even economy to some extent .
There are many other reasons I could mention that this decision has affected.
In short I will say that this indeed a blunder by Erdogan. However we have to wait and see how things will play out in future for Turkey, since Putin might have made other promises to Erdogan to push this deal forward. So there might also be some gains for Turkey from this.

If turkey get su 57 along with s 400 than it’s okay deal.

 

[925boy]

Tough times ahead

...for US too.

Erdgogan was very short sighted in his decision

No he wasnt. Between you and him, who has the full picture here?

 

[Cash GK]

https://strategicaffairsanalysis.blogspot.com/2019/07/comment-us-expel-turkey-from-f-35.html
US expels Turkey from F-35 program, good for Turkey. Getting or moving away from US alliance is going to be a big blessing ,opening multiple opportunities for our great friend turkey.
Now Turkey has choices . due to its strategic position and of course Incirlik Air Base, the most important NATO/ US base Turkey can ask US and NATO to leave or dictate US/NATO in Iraq and SYria.
Russia has offered Turkey SU 35, US will not let Turkey slip away, Turkey is in win win position. Turkey has played its cards very wisely not compromising on its core national interests.
Turkey can get weapons/ technology from Russia and China and soon US will realize and behave and will reopen its doors but the relations will not be same.
My observation is countries with historical depth always play with grace , Iran, Turkey etc have played and playing very nicely. That's why I love to analyse things in light of strategic culture theory/ approach
Turkey is a great country with strong history. With Strong leadership it is and God willing will become Super power of future
https://strategicaffairsanalysis.blogspot.com/2019/07/comment-us-expel-turkey-from-f-35.html

So nato is to its end..welcom to new world order

 

[Dante80]

Turkey says defense firms face 'temporary' losses after F-35 removal but will 'emerge stronger'

İsmail Demir

Turkish defence companies may face temporary losses after a U.S. decision to remove Ankara from the F-35 fighter jet programme but the industry will emerge stronger as a result, the head of Turkey's Defence Industry Directorate said on Thursday.

The United States says it is removing Turkey from the F-35 jet programme over its purchase of Russian S-400 defence systems, which Washington says could compromise the stealth capabilities of the F-35 jets.

Turkey has dismissed those concerns and last week took delivery of the first shipment of S-400 parts, prompting Wednesday's decision by Washington to end Turkey's involvement in the F-35 programme. Turkish firms had been producing F-35 parts and Ankara had ordered more than 100 of the jets.

Speaking to reporters in Ankara, Ismail Demir said the move was unilateral and not in line with the agreement signed between the parties, and added that Turkey would continue meeting its commitments until its exclusion from the programme is finalised.

"It is a controversial decision that has no place in the signed agreements. We are waiting for this to become official," Demir said.

"Our companies may face losses initially, and even though issues like sanctions and more may lead to temporary losses for the defence industry, we think it will result in our defence industry becoming stronger," he said.

The Pentagon said on Wednesday that Turkey produces more than 900 parts of the F-35, and added that the supply chain would transition from Turkish to mainly U.S. factories as Turkish suppliers are removed.

It said Turkey would no longer receive more than $9 billion in projected work share related to the F-35 over the life of the programme, and added that it would not be able to receive the F-35s it had ordered.

Moving the supply chain for the jet would also cost the United States between $500 million and $600 million, it said.

Demir said Turkish defence companies would evaluate how to compensate for their losses from Turkey's removal, but added that other countries involved in the F-35 programme would face extra costs of $7-8 million per jet as a result of the move.

He also said Turkey would not purchase foreign defence equipment from now on unless it was absolutely necessary, but did not elaborate further.

The S-400 acquisition is one of several issues that have frayed ties between the two allies, including a dispute over strategy in Syria east of the Euphrates River, where the United States is allied with Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) terrorists.

Source :. https://www.yenisafak.com/en/world/...f-35-removal-but-will-emerge-stronger-3495793


emphasis-bold for the particulars added by me.

 

[Deliorman]

Turkey says defense firms face 'temporary' losses after F-35 removal but will 'emerge stronger'

İsmail Demir

Turkish defence companies may face temporary losses after a U.S. decision to remove Ankara from the F-35 fighter jet programme but the industry will emerge stronger as a result, the head of Turkey's Defence Industry Directorate said on Thursday.

The United States says it is removing Turkey from the F-35 jet programme over its purchase of Russian S-400 defence systems, which Washington says could compromise the stealth capabilities of the F-35 jets.

Turkey has dismissed those concerns and last week took delivery of the first shipment of S-400 parts, prompting Wednesday's decision by Washington to end Turkey's involvement in the F-35 programme. Turkish firms had been producing F-35 parts and Ankara had ordered more than 100 of the jets.

Speaking to reporters in Ankara, Ismail Demir said the move was unilateral and not in line with the agreement signed between the parties, and added that Turkey would continue meeting its commitments until its exclusion from the programme is finalised.

"It is a controversial decision that has no place in the signed agreements. We are waiting for this to become official," Demir said.

"Our companies may face losses initially, and even though issues like sanctions and more may lead to temporary losses for the defence industry, we think it will result in our defence industry becoming stronger," he said.

The Pentagon said on Wednesday that Turkey produces more than 900 parts of the F-35, and added that the supply chain would transition from Turkish to mainly U.S. factories as Turkish suppliers are removed.

It said Turkey would no longer receive more than $9 billion in projected work share related to the F-35 over the life of the programme, and added that it would not be able to receive the F-35s it had ordered.

Moving the supply chain for the jet would also cost the United States between $500 million and $600 million, it said.

Demir said Turkish defence companies would evaluate how to compensate for their losses from Turkey's removal, but added that other countries involved in the F-35 programme would face extra costs of $7-8 million per jet as a result of the move.

He also said Turkey would not purchase foreign defence equipment from now on unless it was absolutely necessary, but did not elaborate further.

The S-400 acquisition is one of several issues that have frayed ties between the two allies, including a dispute over strategy in Syria east of the Euphrates River, where the United States is allied with Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) terrorists.

Source :. https://www.yenisafak.com/en/world/...f-35-removal-but-will-emerge-stronger-3495793


emphasis-bold for the particulars added by me.

Wishful thinking only...

 

[MMM-E]

100 F-35 would cost about 12 bln $ same amount of money Turkish companies would get as contracts for F-35 parts production. So basically all money would remain inside Turkey and boost Turkish companies.

Turkish companies would get $8 billion for F-35 parts production until 2040

on the other hand Turkey will spend $40 billion for American control 100 F-35s until 2050 ( purchase, maintenance, operation costs )

better to spend $40 billion for buying more 4 Baterries S-400 Air Defense Systems to block Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean against Fighter Jets. also co-operation with Russia for S-500 Air Defense System including Naval version for TF-2000 class AAW Destroyers and to develop the TF-X Fighter Jet with Indigenous Turbofan Engine

But not before mid to late 202x only after the first deliveries to the RuAF and when the Izd. 30 engine is ready.

Russia is far from being ready to deliver anything within the near future.

not SU-57 but Russia ready to deliver SU-35 within a few years

İf the US not to suspend spare part support of F-16s then Turkey will not buy Fighter Jet
and Turkey fully will focus on the development of the TF-X

 

[Bismarck]

I dont remember S-300 but I remember chinese SAM deal. We tried to buy patriots for years congress did not let us to buy it, after that we made a deal with chinese... But, US simply said ''dont buy it we will sell you patriots'' and you know once again, congress... so I believe after all that no one can blame Turkey or Erdogan about S-400 decision. There was no other way.

That was few years ago. I mean a discussion maybe 15 years ago.

 

[Deino]

...
İf the US not to suspend spare part support of F-16s then Turkey will not buy Fighter Jet
and Turkey fully will focus on the development of the TF-X

You seems to miss, if they even block spares for the F-16, then General Electric won't develop or deliver a new engine too... and I cannot think that RR will then. Aka, the TFX will get no Western engine...

 

[Hexciter]

You seems to miss, if they even block spares for the F-16, then General Electric won't develop or deliver a new engine too... and I cannot think that RR will then. Aka, the TFX will get no Western engine...

If we already learnt how to make an F110, after experiencing on it many years

 

[MMM-E]

You seems to miss, if they even block spares for the F-16, then General Electric won't develop or deliver a new engine too... and I cannot think that RR will then. Aka, the TFX will get no Western engine...

blocking sale of F-35s to Turkey because of to protect security of F35 against S-400 . Its ok
but if the US block spares for the F-16 and GE F110 Engine for the TFX prototypes , then everybody will see real face of the US

that means Problem is not F-35 or S-400
Problem is for the US , the Turkish Armed Forces ready to wipe out the US backed PKK/YPG Terrorists in N.Syria
then bye bye American-Israeli dream
also gas-oil issue in the Eastern Mediterranean

and Turkey plans to use GE F110 Engine for the TFX prototypes. in 2018 Turkey has already started developing Turbofan Engine for serial production of the TFX ( btw Turkey needs minimum 15 years )

 

[500]

Turkish companies would get $8 billion for F-35 parts production until 2040

Turkish industry was projected to receive up to $12 billion in F-35 work over the life of the programme.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/usa-officially-boots-turkey-from-f-35-programme-459762/

on the other hand Turkey will spend $40 billion for American control 100 F-35s until 2050 ( purchase, maintenance, operation costs )

Purchase is about 12 billions maintenance spent mostly in Turkey itself.

better to spend $40 billion for buying more 4 Baterries S-400 Air Defense Systems to block Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean against Fighter Jets. also co-operation with Russia for S-500 Air Defense System including Naval version for TF-2000 class AAW Destroyers and to develop the TF-X Fighter Jet with Indigenous Turbofan Engine

S-400 can be destroyed with one missile.

not SU-57 but Russia ready to deliver SU-35 within a few years

Su-35 would be a setback from F-16 block 52. Su-57 is something very murky and not really a stealth.

 

[Indos]

You seems to miss, if they even block spares for the F-16, then General Electric won't develop or deliver a new engine too... and I cannot think that RR will then. Aka, the TFX will get no Western engine...

How about the possibility TFX program getting Russian engine ?

 

[cabatli_53]

What make me worry is Caatsa. If US put CAATSA into effect, We may face serious difficulty to purchase even EJ-200 engines for HürJet. CAATSA alone will make BAE question their participation into TF-X design phase. Turkish diplomacy should work properly to solve the problems with a mid way instead of describing the things like bad and good. Best likely scenario was to convince US to purchase both F35 and S400 but I think It became almost impossible with an official decleration of Pentagon. If US take all leverages into their hands, They will force us to accept all their terms with uaing sanction card unfortunately. It seems they keep the door opened even today. I have already had some hope to get F35 with using a smart diplomacy and soft offers like limited usage of S400 or transfer them to Cyprus island like Greece/Cypriots did.

 

[MMM-E]

Turkish industry was projected to receive up to $12 billion in F-35 work over the life of the programme.

max $8-9 billion , not $12 billion


The US used F-35 card to save CIA agent BRUNSON
and now The US want to use F-35 card to protect PKK/YPG Terrorists from the Turkish Armed Forces

what about the next ? gas-oil issue in the Eastern Mediterranean ?

btw Zionist lobby in the US and Israel are working on blocking sale of F-35s to Turkey since 2013

The UK has started delaying the development of the TFX and ERDOGAN criticized the British government about it
Turkey should work with Russia to develop the TFX and Turbofan Engine

S-400 can be destroyed with one missile.

F-15 , F-16 , F-35 also can be destroyed with one S400 missile

Su-35 would be a setback from F-16 block 52

SU-35 is far better than F-16 block52

Su-57 is something very murky and not really a stealth.

what about Stealth ? even old Soviet S-125 shoot down so-called stealth Aircraft F-117 in 1999

in a few years many countries will have Radars to detect F-35
for example Meter wave radars can detect stealth aircraft because modern stealth aircraft are mainly designed to avoid detection by microwave radar, and are less stealthy to meter wave radar

SU-57 has great avionics and air superiority capabilty to beat F-16 Viper , F-15 Eagle and Rafale of Greece , Egypt , France and Israel

and according to Sukhoi, Su-57's radar cross section is reduced to an average figure of 0.3-0.4m2 compared to 15m2 for the Su-27

25m2 for F-15
and 5m2 for F-16 with weapons

 

[Malik Alashter]

Guys clear this to me: The S-400 in Syria and it's too close to Israel F-35 so it can be harmful to the f3t in Turkey but not in Israel??? this kinda foggy