Trump says U.S. won’t sell F-35 fighter jets to Turkey

[Hack-Hook]

turkey did mistake they should buy first f-35 then s-400

USA could easily disable the plane remotely.

 

[Rana4pak]

You are the smart one.

Then the US should cut spare parts and we should have 100+ non-operational non-flying metal crap that worths billions of dollars.

It’s not about metal it’s about having f 35 aircraft which you guys can utilise for reverse engineering. Include Engine

 

[Imran Khan]

USA could easily disable the plane remotely.

did they disable your f14?

 

[Bill Longley]

https://strategicaffairsanalysis.blogspot.com/2019/07/comment-us-expel-turkey-from-f-35.html
US expels Turkey from F-35 program, good for Turkey. Getting or moving away from US alliance is going to be a big blessing ,opening multiple opportunities for our great friend turkey.
Now Turkey has choices . due to its strategic position and of course Incirlik Air Base, the most important NATO/ US base Turkey can ask US and NATO to leave or dictate US/NATO in Iraq and SYria.
Russia has offered Turkey SU 35, US will not let Turkey slip away, Turkey is in win win position. Turkey has played its cards very wisely not compromising on its core national interests.
Turkey can get weapons/ technology from Russia and China and soon US will realize and behave and will reopen its doors but the relations will not be same.
My observation is countries with historical depth always play with grace , Iran, Turkey etc have played and playing very nicely. That's why I love to analyse things in light of strategic culture theory/ approach
Turkey is a great country with strong history. With Strong leadership it is and God willing will become Super power of future
https://strategicaffairsanalysis.blogspot.com/2019/07/comment-us-expel-turkey-from-f-35.html

 

[Hack-Hook]

did they disable your f14?

They sabotage ours until we fix it ,but that's two different matter . they only could mess with our F-14 if they had physical access to them but in case of F-35 the plane is connected to Lockheed Martin non stop and share data with them and receive data from their servers . if they cut those data the plane will become seriously crippled or they can just send a buggy software update and made the plane completely useless .

 

[Nein]

He is basically English version of Trump but what about Turkish diaspora as whole and why Armenian , Greek lobby more powerful than Turkish

They put money into it thats why. A lot of Turks dont bother because living in other countries we see it as a temporary thing because one day we will all go back to Turkey hence why we dont put a lot of money into lobbying.

You also have lots of Greek and Armenian politicians in Australia which gives a easy way into lobbying.

Its all about the money. Turks havent really grapsed the art of lobbying properly.

A lot of Greeks and Armenians come from privledged classes compared to a lot of Turks.

 

[sammuel]

~


The f-35 would have provided a much better air defence not to mention attack capability , than the s-400. Considering all the other implications of this deal , a real bad and illogical move , by turkey.

And why does turkey need the s-400 so badly ? when was it that it was threatened by another air force invading it's air space ?

Because the last plane , i remember that invaded Turkish air space and was knocked of the sky , was a Russian plane ! ! !

The whole thing does not make any sense.


~

 

[Killuminati]

The best answer to the F-35 ban is by a total eliminatation of the PKK in North-Iraq. Turkey must hit hard now, destroying every possible leverage of the U.S in that region. No more games. Just fucking HIT IT!!!

And if there is a sanctions on F-16 spare parts than Turkey has to shut down that fking maricon base in Incirlik.

 

[Bismarck]

He is basically English version of Trump but what about Turkish diaspora as whole and why Armenian , Greek lobby more powerful than Turkish

If you look on Turks how they behave on each other, you will understand they are deeply divided. They say, only Turks are friends of Turks, but as an outsider, you could think, they are enemies on theirselfs.

 

[Killuminati]

Turkey-NATO relations broader than F-35 program, Stoltenberg says

NATO's secretary-general on Wednesday praised Turkey's role in the alliance hours after the U.S. formally announced excluding Turkey from the F-35 fighter jet program due to the purchase of the Russian S-400 air defense system, noting that the relations between Turkey and the bloc are not restricted to the program.

Speaking at the Aspen Institute's annual security forum in Colorado, Jens Stoltenberg said he was concerned over Turkey's expulsion, as he highlighted the country's countless contributions to the bloc.

"I am concerned about the consequences of the Turkish decision because it means Turkey will not be part of the F-35 program," he said.

"It is not good; bad for all of us," he added.

The U.S. announced it is removing Turkey from the F-35 stealth fighter program, following through on threats to do so over Ankara's purchase of the Russian S-400 air defense system.

Ankara called on Washington to correct its decision, which it said will irreparably damage relations between the two countries.

"Turkey's contribution to NATO runs much deeper and much broader than the F-35. That is important," said Stoltenberg, adding the international coalition in Syria was able to defeat Daesh "because of the contributions of Turkey."

"We used the bases, infrastructure and Turkey played a key part in that fight," he said, adding Turkish troops are contributing to different missions and operations, citing Kosovo and Afghanistan.

He also said that no other NATO member has raised the exclusion of Turkey from the F-35 program "because we all see that we are dependent on each other."

Stoltenberg reiterated that the S-400 could not become part of NATO's shared missile defense but Turkey has aircraft and radars that would remain part of the system.

"The S-400, it's not possible to integrate into the integrated NATO air defense and missile system, which is about sharing radar pictures, about joint air policing, which is about shared capabilities. And Turkey has not asked for that," Stoltenberg said.

"My responsibility is partly to try to help solve the issue. But as long as the issue is not solved, we need to minimize negative consequences," he added.

"The role of Turkey is much broader than the F-35 or S-400."

The White House announced on Wednesday that it is no longer possible for Turkey to be a part of the F-35 program and that the Turkish personnel taking part in the program would soon leave the country.

Following protracted efforts to purchase an air defense system from the U.S. with no success, Ankara signed a contract in 2017 to purchase the S-400s from Russia.

U.S. President Donald Trump blamed the ongoing row over the F-35 on the Obama administration, whom he said created the problem by not allowing the Turkish government to purchase the Patriot missile system.

"As soon as they found out that they were going to have to buy the missiles, comparable missiles, not as good a missile, but a comparable almost missile from Russia - all of a sudden everybody started rushing and saying to Turkey, 'OK, we'll sell you the Patriot missile,'" he told reporters at the White House Tuesday.

 

[denel]

Erdgogan was very short sighted in his decision

 

[Goku]

Erdgogan was very short sighted in his decision

Follow the below tweet thread may be one perspective for the change



S-400s, a story: Everything started when Turkey downed a Russian jet, Su-24 in Nov 2015 for violating its airspace. Russians were repeatedly bombarding Turkman-led rebel groups by using Turkish airspace. Ankara issued several warnings. Then downed a jet. What was US reaction?

US officials, on the record, initially supported Turkey’s arguments. But had different talking points while briefing reporters on background. US defense officials undermined Turkey’s claim and said Russian jet was in Syrian airspace when it was hit. So much for NATO solidarity

What else US thought of Turkey’s downing the Russian jet? They thought it was an overreaction to “a minor violation of its airspace”

What about NATO? Oh, they were generous. They sent an air defence package against Russian incursions following the jet incident, including AWACS. But NATO diplomats WORRIED Ankara was too aggressive to defend its airspace against the repeated violations

Next, Germany/Luxembourg declared that Turkey cannot count on NATO support if there is a conflict with Russia in Syria. “NATO cannot allow itself to be pulled into a military escalation with Russia as a result of tensions between the two” Briefly: You cannot invoke article 4

Btw, US and Germany earlier in October 2015, a month before the downing of the jet, pulled their missile defense systems from Turkey. Not only US and NATO didn’t want to support Turkey against Russia, they also didn’t want to keep their missile defense systems in the country

Meanwhile, U.S. decides to establish a partnership with PKK’s Syrian armed wing YPG against ISIS.YPG seizes key cities along Turkish-Syrian border, creating concerns that YPG will be able to capture the whole border area. Turkey looks for an exit.Then comes Russia again

Turkey wants to clear ISIS from Jarablus, but itcouldn’t do that. Because Russians were threatening Turkish jets. In fear of an emerging PKK state in its borders, Turkey decides to sign a reconciliation deal with Russia, in order to operate freely and seize the territory

As far as I gather from Turkish sources, Russians had a condition for the reconciliation deal: • Turkey would need to make a major Russian arms purchase as compensation for the downed jet and the killed pilot. Turkey takes the deal.
(The most important tweet which proves ruskies are nothing less in balls squeezing if you want help)

For Turkish officials in Ankara, after the coup attempt in July 2016, S-400 seemed like a good solution for Russian demands. At the time; there was no CAATSA, US didn’t want to sell a defense system to Turkey, and no one brought up S-400s possible implications on F-35.

So until this point: • US/NATO didn’t ensure Turkey about threats posed by Russia in Syria • US partners with Ankara’s arch enemy. Turkey is fearful of a PKK state in itsborder • US doesn’t want to sell an air system to Turkey (They didn’t even want to sell smart munition)

So, July 2017. US learns that Turkey is going to purchase S-400s. What is the US talking point then? “How do you inter-operate in the NATO system?” asked then-US Defense Secretary Mattis. Nomention of F-35

Btw, at this point Turkey had already signed the S-400 deal. • The deal was inked by April 2017 • Trump signs CAATSA in law, August 2017 US waits until November 2017 to issue a soft threat about F-35.

I was in Washington between 2014-2019. NOT A SINGLE US OFFICIAL I talked believed that Turkey would actually buy S-400: •“It is a bluff” for concessions. • “I wouldn’t believe that for a second until I see with my own eyes that S-400s are actually in Turkey”

Turkish officials? They didn’t also believed that US was actually going to sanction Turkey over S-400z • “It is a bluff” to make us buy Patriots • “They cannot force us out of F-35 program” So on and so forth. Both sides didn’t believe each other for a second.

I Believe this "it is a bluff" will surely repeat with USA and India too on S-400

No genuine effort shown by both sides to resolve the S-400 crisis. Both thought the other was bluffing. • US was wrong to underestimate Turkey’s resolve. Failed to understand Turkey’s security concerns • Turkey needed to see that S-400 is agenuine threat to F-35

 

[Bismarck]

Erdgogan was very short sighted in his decision

Short sighted? I remember discussion 10 years ago! where Turkey think of to buy S-300 system.

 

[Turan09]

Short sighted? I remember discussion 10 years ago! where Turkey think on buy S-300 system.

I dont remember S-300 but I remember chinese SAM deal. We tried to buy patriots for years congress did not let us to buy it, after that we made a deal with chinese... But, US simply said ''dont buy it we will sell you patriots'' and you know once again, congress... so I believe after all that no one can blame Turkey or Erdogan about S-400 decision. There was no other way.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Well, nothing surprising here. As I said before , Trump is not a politician or diplomat by career unlike other past US Presidents and he has never held a political position before, add to that the fact that he got quite a temper and character. He is quite straight and direct in his dealings with others and often does what he says. So i believe nobody should be surprised that Turkey has been removed from the F-35 program. Since Trump explicitly said he will kick Turkey out of the project if they bought Russian S-400.

HOWEVER, I believe the biggest winner here is Putin/Russia. He has managed to wrest control of his client state Syria and relegated Turkey/ Western powers and others role in the country to a minimum. He has also got Turkey to shift it stance Vis a Vis Russia in the middle East and Syria in particular, add to that Turkey soaring relations with the West and now this news. It solidifies Russia's position in the region and pulls Turkey away from the West to some extent. However that doesn't means Turkey will cut all ties with the West(most of Turkeys economy is geared towards the West for example.) but it will limit Turkey's position in the Western alliance and might lead to a situation where Turkey is in neither camp (East or West) and might be more of an outlier.
However Turkey will still be abit more tilted towards the West and will remain in NATO, except something spectacular happens(which I think is unlikely) .
As for the US t, don't have much to lose in this to be honest, Granted it might affect US footprint in Syria/Iraq to a lesser extent(that's if Turkey decides to retaliate by kicking US/NATO presence in Turkey, which I find unlikely as this will only make things worse for both sides) but nothing major that the US can't quickly replace given her massive military presence in the middle East and relations with several allies.

For Indians cow is their mother n urine is drink of choice.its beyond ur imagination .indoos cum izrailee

I believe he is right to some extent. Turkey being removed from the F-35 program and maybe sanctions following this will affect Turkey quite significantly. For one they have lost access to one of the most advanced fighter jets in service on earth. You should know that not every country is privileged to have access to such an advanced western fighter jet program. Many countries would even like to buy this fighter jet off the shelf m(but they have been denied even this) taking part in its building. Turkey would have been the only Muslim country to be part of such an advanced fighter jet by not only having one but also taking part in its building, something that would have had long term effects on the country's military industry, technology,geo political position and even economy to some extent .
There are many other reasons I could mention that this decision has affected.
In short I will say that this indeed a blunder by Erdogan. However we have to wait and see how things will play out in future for Turkey, since Putin might have made other promises to Erdogan to push this deal forward. So there might also be some gains for Turkey from this.