Trump complains Saudis not paying fair share for U.S. defense

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

just look at the Houthis I wouldn't be bragging about controlling 85% of the country after only two years.

you're falling for the same trap we did in Afghanistan and Iraq.


is Turkey and Pakistan enemies of Iran??

Officially No. They're the equalizer and restrainer - that's their historic roles. For a reason Pak has sent her most capable and honorable general along with 5K advisors to the KSA, and Turkey has built a base in Qatar....

 

[The SC]

What is he talking about here exactly?

"Frankly, Saudi Arabia has not treated us fairly, because we are losing a tremendous amount of money in defending Saudi Arabia,” he said.
​

Where is the proof of this in the form of data? Also the US has not been defending KSA since the First Gulf War. There are no American military bases in KSA.

I wonder how much US has gained from GCC states allowing US military bases? Or KSA being a crucial partner in the counterterrorism intelligence work of the US?

I guess that the weapons bought from the US by KSA were bought for free as well.

In any case Trump is going to say 1000 different things depending on the audience and day. There was no such talk when he met Saudi Arabian high-ranking officials so nothing will happen.

Anyway did he not practically say the same about Japan, South Korea, most European countries and most NATO countries especially those who do not spend the required/recommended 2% on their militaries? I think so.



Nothing is going to happen. KSA is very well positioned today. Much more than pre-Obama.

The Guy is tired and fed up already after 100 days at the white house!
Check this:
Trump: 'I thought it would be easier'
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/trump-i-thought-it-would-be-easier.492395/#post-9427617
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/trump-i-thought-it-would-be-easier.492395/#post-9427617

Yesterday he asked South Korea to pay for the THAAD missile shield..and today North Korea tested a new Ballistic Missile..

He better help GCC arm itself with the best American systems by allowing the sale of all they need rather than give false protection and try to Milk the GCC further..

 

[Saif al-Arab]

just look at the Houthis I wouldn't be bragging about controlling 85% of the country after only two years.

you're falling for the same trap we did in Afghanistan and Iraq.

You do realize that Houthis are the most heavily armed terrorist group/militia in the world, right? Not even ISIS can compare with their arsenal of weapons in a country already flooded with weapons.

Do you understand that Houthis/Saleh raided the entire Yemeni army, national bank and everything (ISIS in Mosul 50 times bigger) before KSA/Arab Coalition intervened? That most of the Yemeni military after the Houthi/Saleh takeover in September 2014 switched sides to that of the old dictator Ali Abdullah Saleh that ruled Yemen for 30 + years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_takeover_in_Yemen

That they are fighting side by side with the Yemeni army loyal to the former dictator Ali Abdullah Saleh? The same Yemeni military that was one of the most heavily armed militaries in the Middle East and heavily supported by Russia in particular what was once (less than 30 years ago) South Yemen - a satellite state of USSR?

That they are supported/aided by external parties such as possibly Iran AND Russia?

Nobody is bragging about anything. I am solely trying to educate you about the ground realities.

The same Yemen has the most weapons per capita after the US and Serbia and has been in constant war for 40 + years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

You think that KSA would have any problem destroying Houthi militias/terrorists and any adversary in the open or any other well-armed conventional army for that matter?

Why have you not defeated Taliban, Al-Qaeda, ISIS or even AQAP in the same Yemen that you know nothing about despite 15 + years war on terror, thousands upon thousands of direct casualties and many more indirect (suicide among American soldiers) and as many injured and TRILLIONS of dollars wasted? So who is the joke here?

You left Iraq, and ISIS and Iraqi Shia militias supported by your advisory Iran, arrived. In Afghanistan who do you think will control almost all of the countryside (AS THEY ALREADY DO WHILE YOU HAVE BEEN THERE FOR 15 years - 15 YEARS of WAR) if not Taliban?

Think about what you are writing and understand that we are not committing the same mistake as you. Most of the fighting for the past 1 year INSIDE Yemen has been done by the Yemeni army that we support economically and help train along with the US. Which is why our casualties have been low. The most important thing was to prevent Houthis/Saleh from ruling all of Yemen as they did pre-2015 (March) and from them being a long-term/immediate threat for KSA/GCC/the region.

Anyway talking sense to you is as trying to make a case about Trump being a consistent politician. Keep believing what you want to believe and make a mockery of yourself.

The Guy is tired and fed up already after 100 days at the white house!
Check this:
Trump: 'I thought it would be easier'
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/trump-i-thought-it-would-be-easier.492395/#post-9427617

Yesterday he asked South Korea to pay for the THAAD missile shield..and today North Korea tested a new Ballistic Missile..

He better help GCC arm itself with the best American systems by allowing the sale of all they need rather than give false protection and try to Milk the GCC further..

He better do that unless he wants to be replaced by China which is desperate/very willing to offer the GCC what the Americans cannot offer. At one point we have to dump the US (controlled by Zionists and paying welfare to Israel etc.) simply because they are on the cause to self-destruct and to be overtaken by China. This will likely happen not too far in the future. This can happen when you screw entire regions up due to idiotic policies, Iraq being the gravest mistake.

 

[C130]

You do realize that Houthis are the most heavily armed terrorist group/militia in the world, right? Not even ISIS can compare with their arsenal of weapons in a country already flooded with weapons.

Do you understand that Houthis/Saleh raided the entire Yemeni army, national bank and everything (ISIS in Mosul 50 times bigger) before KSA/Arab Coalition intervened? That most of the Yemeni military after the Houthi/Saleh takeover in September 2014 switched sides to that of the old dictator Ali Abdullah Saleh that ruled Yemen for 30 + years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_takeover_in_Yemen

That they are fighting side by side with the Yemeni army loyal to the former dictator Ali Abdullah Saleh? The same Yemeni military that was one of the most heavily armed militaries in the Middle East and heavily supported by Russia in particular what was once (less than 30 years ago) South Yemen - a satellite state of USSR?

That they are supported/aided by external parties such as possibly Iran AND Russia?

Nobody is bragging about anything. I am solely trying to educate you about the ground realities.

The same Yemen has the most weapons per capita after the US and Serbia and has been in constant war for 40 + years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

You think that KSA would have any problem destroying Houthi militias/terrorists and any adversary in the open or any other well-armed conventional army for that matter?

Why have you not defeated Taliban, Al-Qaeda, ISIS or even AQAP in the same Yemen that you know nothing about despite 15 + years war on terror, thousands upon thousands of direct casualties and many more indirect (suicides from American soldiers) and as many injured and TRILLIONS of dollars wasted? So who is the joke here?

You left Iraq and ISIS arrived and Iraqi Shia militias supported by your advisory Iran. In Afghanistan who do you think will control almost all of the countryside (AS THEY ALREDY DO WHILE YOU ARE THERE AFTER 15 years of WAR - 15 YEARS) if not Taliban?

Think about what you are writing and understand that we are not committing the same mistake as you. Most of the fighting for the past 1 year INSIDE Yemen has been done by the Yemeni army that we support economically and help train along with the US. Which is why our casualties have been low. The most important thing was to prevent Houthis/Saleh from ruling all of Yemen as they did pre-2015 (March) and from them being a long-term/immediate threat for KSA/GCC/the region.

Anyway talking sense to you is as trying to make a case about Trump being a consistent politician.

I appreciate you taking the time to inform me of the reality of the situation, but........you know I know everyone else knows that it doesn't end well for KSA.

like I said you didn't learn from the mistake we made of invading and occupying Afganistan and Iraq. you think invading and putting in a puppet will be the end of it?? come on now...unless you are willing to kill all the Houtis you are looking a multi-generational insurgency.

you should have taken a L when the Hothi took over. you should have dealt with them politically.

tell me how much $$ has GCC wasted over the last two years fighting this war?? and how much do you think it would cost you if a war between Iran happens.

 

[The SC]

so you are saying most of the oil doesn't ship through the strait of hormuz on oil tankers and that if Iran Navy blocked it, you would go on like nothing happened LMAO

That is a strategy of war they intend to use against a US attack on Iran it is called asymmetric warfare.. they won't use it against the GCC because they are not threatened by war from the GCC, they both try to do that with proxies on a "neutral terrain"

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I appreciate you taking the time to inform me of the reality of the situation, but........you know I know everyone else knows that it doesn't end well for KSA.

like I said you didn't learn from the mistake we made of invading and occupying Afganistan and Iraq. you think invading and putting in a puppet will be the end of it?? come on now...unless you are willing to kill all the Houtis you are looking a multi-generational insurgency.

you should have taken a L when the Hothi took over. you should have dealt with them politically.

tell me how much $$ has GCC wasted over the last two years fighting this war?? and how much do you think it would cost you if a war between Iran happens.

It already has ended well for KSA. 85% of Yemen is in the control of the Arab coalition and Yemeni government/Yemeni army loyal to the government and allied tribes.

KSA has not invaded Yemen as in invaded the country using a massive ground force. What KSA/Arab coalition did was to bomb (at the beginning of the war) all the strategic areas controlled by the Yemeni army and Houthi's and afterwards moved into Yemen with a LIMITED number of soldiers to conquer/liberate key areas of Yemen such as the oil and gas fields, the main and most important harbors, the economic heart of Yemen (Aden), most of the agricultural lands etc.

This is the most recent map of Yemen:

Nowadays as I wrote to you already, most of the fighting inside Yemen is not done by KSA/Arab coalition but mostly the Yemeni army that has regrouped after 2 years and which KSA/Arab coalition helps finance (along with the US btw) and help train.

At the same time we work together to combat AQAP which Trump has intensified the fight against which is a very good thing and supported strongly by KSA.

Hadi was always a transitional figure and he is irrelevant other than being the symbol of the legitimate rule in Yemen. If he dies tomorrow this will not impact the war other than finding an alternative.

KSA/Arab coalition tried to deal with the Houthis through reason but it is hard to deal with them any other way when they only understand violence and power. How come do you think they managed to conquer all of Yemen (almost) pre-March 2015 back in September 2014? By giving out flowers?

I gave you a link so you can read about that Houthi takeover which happened before KSA had intervened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_takeover_in_Yemen

And the Yemen war is complex and KSA/Arab coalition have committed mistakes there is no doubt about it but it would have been much worse had we allowed Houthis (who are incredibly incompetent people) to run Yemen and create a terrorist safe heaven and potentially an Iranian base/Hezbollah next door who the longer we did not act would become harder to defeat. Instability in Yemen is not good for KSA either although most of Southwestern/Southern KSA is quite isolated from the remaining part of the country. In any case KSA has nothing to gain from a unstable Yemen.

The war has actually not been that expensive. Had it been incredibly expensive KSA would have stopped it a long time ago especially in times of budget deficits.

There will be no war between KSA/GCC and Iran has no party will gain anything from this other than foreigners. It would not be a cheap war, never said anything about that, in fact I never spoke about any KSA/GCC/Arab-Iran war but it would be more expensive for Iran as their economy is much worse than KSA's let alone the combined GCC economy. Don't forget that the GCC has sovereign wealth funds worth USD 3 trillion alone. That is a big amount of money.

 

[somebozo]

he has made these complains since the 1980...

 

[C130]

That is a strategy of war they intend to use against a US attack on Iran it is called asymmetric warfare.. they won't use it against the GCC because they are not threatened by war from the GCC, they both try to do that with proxies on a "neutral terrain"

I don't even think the U.S even cares for the Persian Gulf anymore, tbh. we get less and less oil from the Middle East. Let China use it's soft and hard power to protect the GCC and that oh so beautiful and vital black gold.

we are getting less and less oil from the Middle East thanks to Canada and shale oil boom

 

[The SC]

I appreciate you taking the time to inform me of the reality of the situation, but........you know I know everyone else knows that it doesn't end well for KSA.

like I said you didn't learn from the mistake we made of invading and occupying Afganistan and Iraq. you think invading and putting in a puppet will be the end of it?? come on now...unless you are willing to kill all the Houtis you are looking a multi-generational insurgency.

you should have taken a L when the Hothi took over. you should have dealt with them politically.

tell me how much $$ has GCC wasted over the last two years fighting this war?? and how much do you think it would cost you if a war between Iran happens.

One can not compare foreign invasion with family feud..
Both Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded and destroyed by a country who is thousands of miles far away from them, that has done it with an agenda of destabilizing the middle east and where the only beneficiary was Usrael that saw Iraq as a direct threat and Afghanistan as Al-Qaeda with an eye on Zionism..Syria and Libya were also on this front against Zionism in the middle east.. Egypt too, but since it has the peace agreement supervised by the US it has escaped destabilisation, but mainly because of its strength and backing from other Arab nations
KSA had supported Saleh in the past to promote Yemen stability after many wars between the North and South, and after fair and democratic elections where Saleh had lost, it still supported the legitimacy of the new government to preserve peace and stability in Yemen.. then came the coup from Saleh (things that happen only in third world countries after a party loses to another one).. it was RIP to democracy and stability in Yemen yet again, so what choice had KSA and the GCC in general has in front of them but to help keep some sort of balance inside Yemen before the instability spills all over Yemen and the Area..

 

[C130]

It already has ended well for KSA. 85% of Yemen is in the control of the Arab coalition and Yemeni government/Yemeni army loyal to the government and allied tribes.

KSA has not invaded Yemen as in invaded the country using a massive ground force. What KSA/Arab coalition did was to bomb (at the beginning of the war) all the strategic areas controlled by the Yemeni army and Houthi's and afterwards moved into Yemen with a LIMITED number of soldiers to conquer/liberate key areas of Yemen such as the oil and gas fields, the main and most important harbors, the economic heart of Yemen (Aden), most of the agricultural lands etc.

This is the most recent map of Yemen:

Nowadays as I wrote to you already, most of the fighting inside Yemen is not done by KSA/Arab coalition but mostly the Yemeni army that has regrouped after 2 years and which KSA/Arab coalition helps finance (along with the US btw) and help train.

At the same time we work together to combat AQAP which Trump has intensified the fight against which is a very good thing and supported strongly by KSA.

Hadi was always a transitional figure and he is irrelevant other than being the symbol of the legitimate rule in Yemen. If he dies tomorrow this will not impact the war other than finding an alternative.

KSA/Arab coalition tried to deal with the Houthis through reason but it is hard to deal with them any other way when they only understand violence and power. How come do you think they managed to conquer all of Yemen (almost) pre-March 2015 back in September 2014? By giving out flowers?

I gave you a link so you can read about that Houthi takeover which happened before KSA had intervened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_takeover_in_Yemen

And the Yemen war is complex and KSA/Arab coalition have committed mistakes there is no doubt about it but it would have been much worse had we allowed Houthis (who are incredibly incompetent people) to run Yemen and create a terrorist safe heaven and potentially an Iranian base/Hezbollah next door who the longer we did not act would become harder to defeat. Instability in Yemen is not good for KSA either although most of Southwestern/Southern KSA is quite isolated from the remaining part of the country. In any case KSA has nothing to gain from a unstable Yemen.

The war has actually not been that expensive. Had it been incredibly expensive KSA would have stopped it a long time ago especially in times of budget deficits.

There will be no war between KSA/GCC and Iran has no party will gain anything from this other than foreigners. It would not be a cheap war, never said anything about that, in fact I never spoke about any KSA/GCC/Arab-Iran war but it would be more expensive for Iran as their economy is much worse than KSA's let alone the combined GCC economy. Don't forget that the GCC has sovereign wealth funds worth USD 3 trillion alone. That is a big amount of money.

you do know what an insurgency is right? but if you don't mind throwing money into the pit hole and don't care about thousands of people getting blown up and killed every year.......then you win.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

you do know what an insurgency is right? but if you don't mind throwing money into the pit hole and don't care about thousands of people getting blown up and killed every year.......then you win.

I repeat most of the current fighting INSIDE Yemen and away from the borders of Yemen is done by the Yemeni army and government who are AIDED (financially, economically through air (KSA and Arab coalition air forces) and sea (KSA and Arab coalition navies). Also they are trained by us and we of course have advisers and soldiers on the battlefront but a limited number of soldiers. This is a deliberate policy as we need to help built a powerful Yemeni army that can defend itself and deal with Yemeni challenges on its own be it against Houthis, AQAP or other groups. This is why KSA/Arab casualties have been very small overall compared to the length of this war, the firepower of the opponent and geography (mountainous guerrilla warfare - not much conventional war or fighting in open desert or away from populated areas).

So what is your solution? To leave Yemen to itself and make everything worse by helping create a never ending civil war between various Yemeni groups and allow Houthis to turn into a 100% (potentially) foreign proxy aimed at hurting KSA/GCC/the region?

There was already a civil war raging before KSA/Arab coalition became involved. There have been many wars in Yemen in the past decades, unfortunately. Most of which had nothing to do with KSA/Arab world but internal Yemeni matters. To this day the current conflict is not only about pro-Houthi/Saleh against pro-Hadi but also North vs South to a great deal and everyone in between.

You do know that the US (US military) pretty much agree with what I wrote?

Autocorrect. The Devil's work.

 

[C130]

I repeat most of the current fighting INSIDE Yemen and away from the borders of Yemen is done by the Yemeni army and government who are AIDED (financially, economically through air (KSA and Arab coalition air forces) and sea (KSA and Arab coalition navies). Also they are trained by us and we of course have advisers and soldiers on the battlefront but a limited number of soldiers. This is a deliberate policy as we need to help built a powerful Yemeni army that can defend itself and deal with Yemeni challenges on its own be it against Houthis, AQAP or other groups. This is why KSA/Arab coalition have been very small overall compared to the length of this war, the firepower of the opponent and geography (mountainous guerrilla warfare - not much conventional war or fighting in open desert or away from populated areas).

So what is your solution? To leave Yemen to itself and make everything worse by helping create a never ending civil war between various Yemeni groups and allow Houthis to turn into a 100% (potentially) foreign proxy aimed at hurting KSA/GCC/the region?

You do know that the US (US military) pretty much agree with what I wrote?

"so what is your solution"

1) buy the houthis off. if you got money for a expensive war you got money to bribe them

2) relocate them to Iran and pay them

3) kill all the houthis

if those 3 don't happen. you are going to have a 100 years of strife.

 

[The SC]

I don't even think the U.S even cares for the Persian Gulf anymore, tbh. we get less and less oil from the Middle East. Let China use it's soft and hard power to protect the GCC and that oh so beautiful and vital black gold.

we are getting less and less oil from the Middle East thanks to Canada and shale oil boom

You are right about the Oil supply, but it doesn't stop at North American demand, the whole rest of the world is dependent on the Middle East Oil, comprising the key allies of the US, like Europe, Japan, India and many more..
The GCC needs only good potent weapon systems from the US Britain or China to defend itself, and it is paying and willing to pay more for these systems, if they are the latest and most efficient for its defensive purposes..

 

[Saif al-Arab]

"so what is your solution"

1) buy the houthis off. if you got money for a expensive war you got money to bribe them

2) re-locate them to Iran and pay them

3) kill all the houthis

if those 3 don't happen. you are going to have a 100 years of strife.

1) When has it ever worked to buy off terrorist groups? KSA has never used such a policy with armed groups. It has, unfortunately, supported fellow absolutist governments in the Arab and Muslim world by using financial aid however.

Saleh used to do the same and he had a large-scale war with the Houthis every 5 years or so.

2) They have no intention of going to Iran. They are Yemenis. They have nothing to do with Iran other than Iran trying to use them as a proxy against KSA but Houthis are not a proxy but an independent group with their own agenda for Yemen.

3) It is impossible to kill them all. Similar to it being impossible to kill all ISIS, Taliban etc. members.

However you can do what KSA is doing which has proved rather successful so far and help the Yemeni army and state to become a strong entity again so they can deal with armed terrorist groups on their own.

In any case Yemen has been in conflict for 80% of the time that KSA as a modern-day state has existed (1932) and the impact was limited. However what cannot be tolerated is for Houthis and AQAP to run berserk in a country bigger than Iraq, with a similar population and with much more difficult terrain (mountains mostly vs mostly lowland and desert) and a country of strategic importance in terms of trade and the Gulf of Aden. It would either have been KSA or the US as Yemen could/would have turned into another Houthi/ISIS/AQAP safe heaven if nobody had taken any action, I am afraid. In a worst case scenario.

I mean there is already the AQAP which has caused trouble for a long time and apparently is the most dangerous terrorist groups in terms of potential attacks against the West. Those are the words of the Western media btw. Also why did the first American casualty in a war happen in Yemen under Trump? This shows that the Americans want a stable Yemen too.

You are right about the Oil supply, but it doesn't stop at North American demand, the whole rest of the world is dependent on the Middle East Oil, comprising the key allies of the US, like Europe, Japan, India and many more..
The GCC needs only good potent weapon systems from the US Britain or China to defend itself, and it is paying and willing to pay more for these systems, if they are the latest and most efficient for its defensive purposes..

I think that we should just go for the Chinese option. They seem more trustworthy and more willing to help their longterm partners. Or hell even the Russians. Should the US prevent/not offer what we need/want. Not sure what they are afraid of but I of course forgot Usrael and them possibly being interested in a possible but unlikely GCC-Iran conflict.

 

[C130]

1) When has it ever worked to buy off terrorist groups? KSA has never used such a policy with armed groups. It has, unfortunately, supported fellow absolutist governments in the Arab and Muslim world by using financial aid however.

Saleh used to do the same and he had a large-scale war with the Houthis every 5 years or so.

2) They have no intention of going to Iran. They are Yemenis. They have nothing to do with Iran other than Iran trying to use them as a proxy against KSA but Houthis are not a proxy but an independent group with their own agenda for Yemen.

3) It is impossible to kill them all. Similar to it being impossible to kill all ISIS, Taliban etc. members.

However you can do what KSA is doing which has proved rather successful so far and help the Yemeni army and state to become a strong entity again so they can deal with armed terrorist groups on their own.

In any case Yemen has been in conflict for 80% of the time that KSA as a modern-day state has existed (1932) and the impact was limited. However what cannot be tolerated is for Houthis and AQAP to run berserk in a country bigger than Iraq, with a similar population and with much more difficult terrain (mountains mostly vs mostly lowland and desert) and a country of strategic importance in terms of trade and the Gulf of Aden. It would either have been KSA or the US as Yemen could/would have turned into another Houthi/ISIS/AQAP safe heaven if nobody had taken any action, I am afraid. In a worst case scenario.

I mean there is already the AQAP which has caused trouble for a long time and apparently is the most dangerous terrorist groups in terms of potential attacks against the West. Those are the words of the Western media btw. Also why did the first American casualty in a war happen in Yemen under Trump? This shows that the Americans want a stable Yemen too.

1. I dunno know?? has anyone genuinely tried to buy off a terrorist group, lmao. you buy off the leader, and they can control the masses

2. I didn't think so.

3. you can't kill them all, but you kill most of them and the people that harbor them

you would have to have a cold heart and not care about the world community