Chhatrapati
BANNED
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2016
- Messages
- 11,579
- Reaction score
- -22
- Country
- Location
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Not sure how tall is tommy, but he was taller and bigger than Vivian (judging from a photo of two of them together, again, I cannot show you that photo) So, I would say he is over 5' 6"
You also need to know the death blow is from the Fire Extinguisher, that does not mean the first blow was done by it, she have multiple blunt force trauma on her head, and 2 items (Jewellery box and the Fire Extinguisher) was laying beside her, she could have been stuck with the Jewellery Box or something else (if the killer took with him/her) before finishing her off with the Fire Extinguisher.
few questions from my side:So, y'all ready for round 2?
This time, I am going to have to limit the scope a bit, I will format the detail in a more detail scene, and please noted that for this moment, I will be taking as a role of the crime scene investigator, and you are a detective, you can ask me anything you want about the scene and I will tell you (According to the actual case) what I know and what I don't know, but I will not be making any speculation. At the end of this case detail, you are to submit a report for indictment out of the possible suspect and what kind of charge you think you can get for your suspect.
This case will be a bit harder to get solved, unlike last time, because all the suspect have motive, mean and opportunities, it's up to you to find out who is the true killer. As usual, I will be posting the actual case detail in 5 days (7 days is too much I guess) so we can have a debate within that 5 days and everyone can post their theory and who did it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Small Town Murder.
On an autumn day in Long Island Sound. Shop worker Vivian failed to show up for her shift, the other workers growth worried and asked the duty supervisor to go up to her apartment to check her out, make sure she was okay. But when the duty supervisor arrived on Vivian Apartment, what he found is a gruesome crime scene
The Victim - Vivian
Vivian was a 29 years old woman, after serving in the Military, Vivian had came to this small town to enjoy the small town atmosphere, she live near the shop she works, have a good relationship to the neighbour and her work mate, she is a carefree, outgoing person with a love of nature.
She was killed by multiple blunt force trauma to her heads, murder weapon is the fire extinguisher found near her body.
The Crime Scene
The Crime Scene is Vivian apartment, on the second floor, she laid dead face down near the sofa, next to her on either side is a fire extinguisher and a broken jewellery box, a bit further laid 2 house hold gloves, used and discarded inside out with fingertip folded into the gloves, the origin of the gloves is unknown, could be belong to the household, or could be brought in by the killer or killers.
The scene have minimal struggle, beside a few thing displaced on the coffee table next to Vivian (possibly when she felt and disrupted the setting) the scene is otherwise tidy, there is a clear sign of break in, with the window being open and broken inside, indicated someone went thru the window.
The Investigation
The investigation started almost immediately after the discovery of Vivian death, time of death is determined to be between 11 pm the night before to 3 am that morning. There is one single latent print discovered by the bedside, belong to the victim, and there were blood that was on the window that was open (allegedly broke in). Blood Sample was NOT collected.
The window was open, and the ledge was broken from the outside, a clear sign of break in.
When interviewing the co-worker and friend of the deceased, the investigation found out that the victim was recently broke up with a casual boyfriend, whom was married, and before that, the victim was in a turbulence relationship with another man, which did not end the relationship on a good term.
There are no physical and forensic evidence collected on the scene which can be definitely link to any involvement.
The Evidence
The evidence collected on the scene included;
1.) The Fire Extinguisher collected from the scene, no print can be lifted, and was belong to Vivian
2.) A Pair of Household Gloves, no prints, unclear of origin.
3.) An Unsent Letter send to the boyfriend at that time, detailing the affair and the mind of don't want to have the affair end.
4.) A Police Report lodged by the victim a few weeks before her death, detailing a harassment of the old boy friend.
The Suspect
After the initial investigation concluded. There are 3 possible suspects on this case using the MMO (Means, Motives and Opportunities Model).
Suspect 1 - Rachel
Rachel is the wife of Sam, which was the boyfriend who recently broken up with Vivian.
Motive : Jealousy, possibility of knowing the affair between Vivian and her Husband.
Means : Being bludgeon to death with a fire extinguisher, it's something Rachel can possibly have access to and it's within Rachel mean to be able to do it.
Opportunities : On the night of the murder, Rachel and her Husband were attending a Police Bash (party) however, Rachel left Early at around 10 pm, and she claim she went home afterward, and claim to be with her husband at home (which turn out to be false, read below.)
Side Note : Was not asked nor took a Polygraph test, she is about 5 ft 10, slight/medium build.
Suspect 2 - Sam
Sam was 26 at the time of Murder, a serving Policeman, a detective of the local police department. He had been involved in a affair with Vivian about a month before the murder, he broke up with Vivian just a few days prior to the murder.
Motive : Killing Vivian to hide the Affair or end the affair from his wife.
Means : Being a Police Detective, he is strong enough and knowledgeable enough to commit this murder without leaving any trace of evidence. He also know the layout of Vivian apartment as he has been involve in an relationship with Vivian before.
Opportunities : He, along with his wife, Rachel was attending a party by the department the night of murder, he was observed a short argument with his wife Rachel before Rachel departed the party alone, Sam left approximately 1 hour later with his brother, who drop him off at home afterward, however, unlike what his wife (Rachel) testimony claim, he did not stay home and went back to the party at about 1am, witness at the party claim Sam seems shocked on return to the party.
Side Note : He Offered and Took a Polygraph Test, and he passed the Polygraph.
Suspect 3 - Tommy
Tommy, was 31 at that time of murder, work as a carpenter, was the former on and off boyfriend of Vivian, broken up with her approximately 2 to 3 months before her death, he broke up with her when one day she show up to his work place unannounced.
Tommy have been and still affected by the break up, and was trying to patch thing up with her even when she was dating Sam.
Motive : Jealousy, unable to let go and accept Vivian have moved on with her new boyfriend, obsessed with her and killed her.
Means : Being a former lover, he knows Vivian's living place and know her routine, he is in his prime so he would not have any problem committing the crime and overpower Vivian.
Opportunities : Largely unaccountable, Tommy claim he was drunk, and last at a bar til midnight, then gone straight back home. His whereabouts cannot be and did not be collaborated with anyone during the time of murder.
Side Note : Upon interviewing Vivian's friend, they testified that Tommy is a "Sticky" boyfriend, and would not let go of the break up (even thought it was him who broke off with Vivian) Vivian at one point call the Police station and lodge a report about her ex-boyfriend harassing her by calling her on the phone, the police department dispatched (or rather Vivian requested) Sam to attend the scene, and hence starting the extra-martial relationship.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please refer to the notes and give me your opinion. Please states what kind of crime would you be able to proof (beside actually proofing it) if you can indict any of the above suspect.
Time, People and Location was changed to preserve integrity of the case, I will reveal the case in 5 days (Oct 4) so, please stay tune, in the mean time, please put in your thought(s)
Thank You
@jhungary Do Tommy have a good alibi ? Any witness place Tommy at the bar? Saw him getting drunk?
Oh I'm aware of that. I'm trying to picture Tommy or Sam having a confrontation with Vivian that escalates to murder and why the fire extinguisher. Probably they'd give her a nice punch sending her to the floor. She's down. now they decide to go find/grab a fire extinguisher and bash her to death with it...seems an odd thing for Tommy to do (he'd probably punch/kick her to death in the heat of the moment)...very possible for Sam (he doesn't want to injure his hands/feet). Most likely for Rachel since she doesn't see her hands/feet as a deadly weapon.
few questions from my side:
- How was there a print near bed side? is there a sign of body being moved? as you said later body is in pool of blood near sofa
- any item missing from the jewellery box? was it Vivians? where are the contents of box?
- why would you not collect blood sample near the window?
- shattered glass pieces are from dropped inside the apartment or outside?
- Origin of the F.E? does it belong to the building?
- weight of the Jewellry box?
- any print on the door handle?
Personal Notes:
* did Rachel knew about the affair? did she know where abouts of vivian?
* it would be more feasible for rachel to hit vivian with jewelry box then swinging around a 9kg F.E --- i play around with F.Es on routine & trust me its not easy to swing one around for a lady -----
* Vivian was ex Army - she would for sure know how to handle herself around ---- so if Rachel posed any threat to Vivian she would have taken care of her -- consider there is one blunt trauma force from the left --- this points that someone standing behind vivian could have struck her
* Tommy has obsession with Vivian, he would not hurt her
No, he does not have a good alibi (Along with the other 2 suspects) there are someone who saw him in the bar, but none of it can vouch for his where-about within the time frame of the murder.
I think it's depending on the actual motive, while I agree it's quite strange to use a 17 lbs fire extinguisher to kill someone (It's still quite heavy) as oppose to using other weapon(Knife, Guns or even spear gun) that are readily available. The beating have some emotion involve, as you have to really hate her to beat her to death like that.
Also, another thing you need to consider is that Vivian was a former Army Soldier, she should have some knowledge of self defence, so to beat her up like that, that can only point to two thing. 1.) she is being surprised (ie she know the attacker) 2.) she is being ambushed (ie, the attacker know her but she don't know the attacker)
- Bed side is where the cop found the unmail letter, and the print belong to Vivian, indicating it was her who make that impression before she was kill (Ie, she was writing the letter immediate before she was kill, ala, the last thing she does before laying down beside the sofa dead...)
- Nothing is missing in her household, it does not suggest a burglary happened. And it was Vivian's jewellery box. It was still closed and contain her jewellery inside. But it was damaged and chipped off.
- No idea, all I know (from the actual case report) is that the blood drop is microscopic, and it's not easy to do DNA back in 1980s.
- Inside (not the glass that break, it was the ledge of the window)
- It's belong either to the building where Vivian live or in Vivian apartment at the time.
- Not measured, but it was really small, like a small box it's nothing something you will need to hold with both hands.
- no Print lifted anywhere, only a single print was lifted and it was belong to Vivian.
- Investigator cannot establish that, the husband (Sam) told the investigator he does not believe Rachel know about the affair, but cannot rule out she knew about it, and both (Sam and Rachel) was observed hostile against each other during the party, leading to Rachel left the party early, and it was unusual for both of them to argue.
- Well, it is determined the F.E dealt the fatal blow to Vivian, yes, I supposed if it was Rachel, she could have hit Vivian head with the jewellery box and disable her before moving on with F.E and kill her. This is possible.
- Yes, this, couple with the crime scene would have suggest Vivian is either surprised by her attacker, or was ambushed by her attacker.
its really difficult to prove that any of the Suspect was present at the Scene - i mean its hard to prove --- husband & wife both could have done it together, with first blow given by Rachel & then husband trying to cover his wife by setting up the crime scene ---- but difficult to prove --- needs some more though process
@jhungary Is the Murder weapon really the extinguisher? They couldn't lift any print from the weapon, neither they couldn't lift any from the glove placed near. It looks like a pretty neat cover-up. The murder may or may not be premeditated. Whoever did that, did a pretty good job in covering up.
A carpenter probably care less about his prints getting on anything. Back in 80's, and him being so young. While, Rachel and her husband have the means to cover up a scene pretty clean. Since no one has seen them moving in or out and Rachel has no solid alibi.
My assumption is, the murder weapon may not the extinguisher, Vivian was killed with something else, the suspect entered through the window or door. Probably window, later he/she unlock the door and exit the house.
Vivian probably sleeping by the time, didn't hear the sound of the break in. The killer, enters her room takes the jewellery box slams it on her head, that might have struck on the left side of the temple. She rolled to the floor, where the killer again delivered multiple blows to the head killing her. The killer shows so much hate for her. Sheer force might have crushed her skull. Then the Killer left the scene without making any changes to the scene.
Then someone might have entered the Scene, that's probably the Cop. Being a cop, he can easily evade a polygraph. Now, when he enters the scene, he finds himself in a tough spot. He have accidentally came into a crime scene, he cannot call the deputy's as he cannot provide a legitimate reason to be in the place. He entered the scene, saw the body. He deliberately alter the Crime scene. Wiped out print from the Jewelry box. Picked up an extinguisher from the house. Placed it near the body. Wiped the windows and glasses, the door handle. Left the scene, reach the bash. Visibly shaken.
I assume he knows Rachel is the Killer.
The crime scene looks like the work of a pro.
Broken window seems an odd thing in this. Rachel unlikely to go through window. Sam unlikely too. Unless there was an attempted coverup.
Only Tommy would do that if he wanted to get into her apartment and wait for her so he could have one more of his "attempt to fix it up" conversations. The scene looks like they sat down had a chat, things went bad, Tommy beats her to death. Sounds simple enough.
The problem is Sam the policeman knows about the ex. He has been called to the scene during a complaint before. He knows probably everything and that puts him in a position where if his wife did something crazy he could readjust the scene to make it look like Tommy did it.
Gloves make it seem like something was planned. Fire extinguisher makes it sound completely unplanned. Tommy in the apartment with gloves on and then decides a fire extinguisher would be a choice weapon?
kill Vivian) However, it could also be the killer killed Vivian and decided to mop up the scene
I guess we'll have to quiz for details.
Any struggle marks on any of the suspects?
Only Sam did the poly? Did anybody decline a poly test?
Anybody refuse to answer questions/uncooperative?
Any noises heard by Vivians neighbors?
Any data on how easy is it to access the window from the outside?
Any evidence Rachel knew where the victim lived?
Evidence she was stalking her?
Any evidence Sam or Tommy possibly bought jewelry in the past six months for Vivian? Any report of jewelry missing from Sam's house?
Any odd money deposits/withdrawals from any bank accounts? Odd credit card charges by Sam? Any positive pregnancy tests?
Any rap sheets?
@jhungary The updates..... 5 days up
In a coincident, scott lawyer was not been able to attend the interview and scott, decided to go do the interview alone, without legal representation, because he believe he is innocent (He was), but ended up saying or guessing a lot of detail that did not match other provided by friends and workmate presented in the party.