Treason Charges and Death Sentence for Musharaf: Analysis

[Jungibaaz]

So you have no issues with half arsed / incomplete application of Article 6?

On one hand you talk of Constitution yet on the other you are okay with unconstitutional acts of judges in running this case.

And you are a TT! Wow!



Your bias has made you blind.

What the judges did was unconstitutional. Total disregard for both Article 6 and Article 10!

Please explain how Musharraf did not violate the constitution by doing any and all of the following:

• Suspending the assembly (1999)
• Removing judges (2007 and 1999)
• Placing dissenting judges under house arrest or jail (both dates)
• Removing an elected PM and putting him jail without any process. (1999)
• Making judges who are ruled by law and constitution, swear new oaths to him and break their own oaths by PCO. (both dates)
• Breaking his own oath of member of armed forces, first line of which states upholding the constitution as a focus.

You cannot deny that he is guilty of high treason on multiple counts.

And as for my bias or my becoming TT, why not just stick to the subject of the thread and not comment on matters you aren’t aware of?

 

[Verve]

Nope. Not the same judges. The Parliament gave it legality with a constitutional amendment. Also, if you know any ABC of our law, Supreme Court's larger bench can override an earlier decision, and even though 1999 was not touched, 2007 was declared martial law, for which the usurper Musharraf has been handed capital punishment.

So you will have no issues if even a larger bench reverses the previous SC verdicts on this case?

Please explain how Musharraf did not violate the constitution by doing any and all of the following:

• Suspending the assembly (1999)
• Removing judges (2007 and 1999)
• Placing dissenting judges under house arrest or jail (both dates)
• Removing an elected PM and putting him jail without any process. (1999)
• Making judges who are ruled by law and constitution, swear new oaths to him and break their own oaths by PCO. (both dates)
• Breaking his own oath of member of armed forces, first line of which states upholding the constitution as a focus.

You cannot deny that he is guilty of high treason on multiple counts.

And as for my bias or my becoming TT, why not just stick to the subject of the thread and not comment on matters you aren’t aware of?

Go study Article 6 and criminal law. Then study Article 10.

When a crime is committed, no judge will try each member of the gang individually in separate case. All those involved in that single crime are tried together.

Find anything like it in British system or anywhere else.

Judges in this court refused collection of evidence by defence. That's straight up breach of Article 10.

I would have no issues if the trial was run fairly.

What you are promoting is summary trials with no regard for law!!

Desi Liberal hypocrisy on full display. Total disregard for application of law just because the judgement is of your liking.

 

[Jungibaaz]

So, we at least agree Musharraf is guilty of Article 6?

This is the crux of the matter. Some people aren’t accepting the simple truth. He IS guilty of high treason.

In any other country, this open and shut case would have been wrapped up and guilty verdict given years ago.

So you will have no issues if even a larger bench reverses the previous SC verdicts on this case?



Go study Article 6 and criminal law. Then study Article 10.

When a crime is committed, no judge will try each member of the gang individually in separate case. All those involved in that single crime are tried together.

Find anything like it in British system or anywhere else.

Judges in this court refused collection of evidence by defence. That's straight up breach of Article 10.

I would have no issues if the trial was run fairly.

What you are promoting is summary trials with no regard for law!!

Desi Liberal hypocrisy on full display. Total disregard for application of law just because the judgement is of your liking.

Answer the question I posed. How is he not guilty of high treason in those instances? Or do you concede that he is. And are simply taking issue with the process, which will no doubt we will see be the ground for appeal.

 

[Verve]

This is the crux of the matter. Some people aren’t accepting the simple truth. He IS guilty of high treason.

In any other country, this open and shut case would have been wrapped up and guilty verdict given years ago.

Answer the question I posed. How is he not guilty of high treason in those instances? Or do you concede that he is. And are simply taking issue with the process, which will no doubt we will see be the ground for appeal.

What you don't get is that this will most likely go to retrial because of what judges did. This judgement will be null and voided when it didn't need to had the judges followed the constitution!

Serial killers have walked on technical blunders.

If the constitution was abrogated or suspended, then the Constitution should be followed to the letter in trying all the persons who were involved in that act.

He is guilty of high treason but so all so many people who were part of that act and even 1999.

Why are you ok with just him being singled out for prosecution? All involved should be tried, that's what Article 6 says! Go read it!

 

[Saifullah]

What you don't get is that this will most likely go to retrial because of what judges did. This judgement will be null and voided when it didn't need to had the judges followed the constitution!

Serial killers have walked on technical blunders.

If the constitution was abrogated or suspended, then the Constitution should be followed to the letter in trying all the persons who were involved in that act.

He is guilty of high treason but so all so many people who were part of that act and even 1999.

Why are you ok with just him being singled out for prosecution? All involved should be tried, that's what Article 6 says! Go read it!

Government should add them up and follow case against them as well and give them their due punishment. All the Traitors of nation must get their punishment Politicians, Establishment and Musharraf n his Partners.

 

[Verve]

Government should add them up and follow case against them as well and give them their due punishment. All the Traitors of nation must get their punishment Politicians, Establishment and Musharraf n his Partners.

For your information, government tried adding those abeters and the scum judges refused.

Even at the very start of the case, Musharaf's lawyers wanted others to be included and denied by judges.

Law Minister Zahid Hamid - Nawaz's right hand man - was part of it.

 

[Jungibaaz]

What you don't get is that this will most likely go to retrial because of what judges did. This judgement will be null and voided when it didn't need to had the judges followed the constitution!

Serial killers have walked on technical blunders.

If the constitution was abrogated or suspended, then the Constitution should be followed to the letter in trying all the persons who were involved in that act.

He is guilty of high treason but so all so many people who were part of that act and even 1999.

Why are you ok with just him being singled out for prosecution? All involved should be tried, that's what Article 6 says! Go read it!

Actually, I agree with everything you’ve said here. Co-conspirators should have been tried too. This was Musharraf’s defence counsel and advocates argument for years, but court has rightly decided IMO that this is not a requirement before reaching a verdict on Musharraf.

The other thing they’ll argue is that verdict given in absentia is invalid. In any other country with due process, even if this appeal is granted. Eventual verdict would still be guilty of high treason. And if anything, in a properly functioning system without the army pressuring judiciary. This verdict would have been announced years ago, even with Musharraf in absentia.

The judges can make this argument even better than I can as I’m feebly doing.

And all else in this thread is hot air, not even Musharraf’s counsel will appeal anything but on absentia and the other people involved.

But I’m glad to see that we’re agreed that Musharraf is no doubt, guilty of high treason.

 

[Verve]

but court has rightly decided IMO that this is not a requirement before reaching a verdict on Musharraf.

Injustice that is. When a crime is shared, you simply can't disregard everyone else's involvement and throw all the blame on one only.

As I said, case will be thrown out. Appeal will be filed after that scum Khosa/tretires and fuks off to USA.

Stark difference between Panama and this trial. Total opposite in every way.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Injustice that is. When a crime is shared, you simply can't disregard everyone else's involvement and throw all the blame on one only.

As I said, case will be thrown out. Appeal will be filed after that scum Khosa/tretires and fuks off to USA.

Stark difference between Panama and this trial. Total opposite in every way.

Let’s agree to disagree. But I do agree that it will be thrown out, not because the case was wrong or invalid/unjust, but because the usual suspects always get what they want in Pakistan, and they have never had any problem removing judiciary, jailing them, removing and executing prime ministers. So this is an easy job for them if not Khosa, then the next guy will cave under pressure, if not him, then the next guy after that etc.

 

[Verve]

Let’s agree to disagree. But I do agree that it will be thrown out, not because the case was wrong or invalid/unjust, but because the usual suspects always get what they want in Pakistan, and they have never had any problem removing judiciary, jailing them, removing and executing prime ministers. So this is an easy job for them if not Khosa, then the next guy will cave under pressure, if not him, then the next guy after that etc.

I'd like to see Death Penalties for those who robbed the nation leading to widespread poverty and death.

Suspending the constitution is not a crime deserving death penalty. 2007 Emergency only hurt Ego of some in judiciary, it didn't loot, starve and kill people.

 

[Jungibaaz]

I'd like to see Death Penalties for those who robbed the nation leading to widespread poverty and death.

Suspending the constitution is not a crime deserving death penalty. 2007 Emergency only hurt Ego of some in judiciary, it didn't loot, starve and kill people.

According to the constitution though, article 6 outlines either life imprisonment or death for high treason.

I don’t care much for the death sentencing part either, for me it’s the principle that counts.

You would hate Musharraf more if you knew just what he pulled during his time. And especially in Kargil. A false narrative and perception exists among us due to propaganda. Musharraf has blood on his hands and he damaged the state of Pakistan as a result too.

 

[Verve]

According to the constitution though, article 6 outlines either life imprisonment or death for high treason.

I don’t care much for the death sentencing part either, for me it’s the principle that counts.

You would hate Musharraf more if you knew just what he pulled during his time. And especially in Kargil. A false narrative and perception exists among us due to propaganda. Musharraf has blood on his hands and he damaged the state of Pakistan as a result too.

Military strategies and actions backfire. Does that mean you hang the ones in command for bad decisions?

Next you are going to blame 65 war on Pakistanis as well? 71 too? Go on.

What's your opinion on Pakistan's support for Kashmiris then??

 

[Saifullah]

I'd like to see Death Penalties for those who robbed the nation leading to widespread poverty and death.

Suspending the constitution is not a crime deserving death penalty. 2007 Emergency only hurt Ego of some in judiciary, it didn't loot, starve and kill people.

Selling the Nation did all those things.
Musharraf has been convicted Traitor, now government should go for others too. File the case and get verdict as that will be extremely easy and open shut case because one Traitor already got the punishment on the same case, it will be real easy to get the same verdict on the same case under same circumstances for others too.
You should ask the government and Judiciary to follow on that and give the verdict swiftly that will serve the nation giving the Traitors and criminals what they deserve.

 

[Verve]

It's easy blaming Musharaf but what about the one who gave him that top seat bypassing more senior generals?

Ultimate responsibility for Kargil sits on Nawaz, if ultimate responsibility for Emergency sits on Musharaf.

Hypocrisy if applying selective approach to justify your bias.

Selling the Nation did all those things.
Musharraf has been convicted Traitor, now government should go for others too. File the case and get verdict as that will be extremely easy and open shut case because one Traitor already got the punishment on the same case, it will be real easy to get the same verdict on the same case under same circumstances for others too.
You should ask the government and Judiciary to follow on that and give the verdict swiftly that will serve the nation giving the Traitors and criminals what they deserve.

Apparently you are oblivious to reality. All corrupt have been set free by the courts. Government can't convict and sentence them.

This Constitution and System is going.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Military strategies and actions backfire. Does that mean you hang the ones in command for bad decisions?

Next you are going to blame 65 war on Pakistanis as well? 71 too? Go on.

What's your opinion on Pakistan's support for Kashmiris then??

Musharraf would have been court martialed for Kargil. And many other generals at the time were livid with him and his Gang of Four.

Irrelevant, but... As for 1971, it was an internal war in which India intervened and helped insurgents, how war broke out becomes less relevant. As for 1965, yes we started it, Operation Gibraltar, this isn’t even a debate but a matter of historic record now.

Our support for Kashmiris is important, they deserve better than Indian oppression, but our military strategies thus far haven’t earned us or them any benefit.

Ultimate responsibility for Kargil sits on Nawaz, if ultimate responsibility for Emergency sits on Musharraf.

Respectfully, I completely disagree. I suggest you read around elsewhere for the real story, Musharraf has cooked up a bs narrative to repair damage to his legacy.

Musharraf and his Gang of Four are fully responsible for Kargil. Many military leaders still held this grudge and bitter resentment against Musharraf too.

If there is fault on Nawaz’s part, then it’s that he took Musharraf’s word in a briefing and did not investigate the matter further and stop infiltration when it started. Even that is a stretch and the ultimate fault is Musharraf’s.