TRADE WITH INDIA NEED OF THE HOUR, SAYS ADVISER TO THE PRIME MINISTER ON COMMERCE RAZAK DAWOOD

[Bhoot Pishach]

So any request by the Pakistani govt formally put through? Nope thought not, never will be.

BC yeah chal kaya raha hai Al-Bakistan me?????

https://twitter.com/x/status/1496003243423539201

 

[LakeHawk180]

Sure, so long as you understand clearly that the Court has already passed judgement on this as far back as 1968, and the only discernible reason for their failing to hear these 22 pending petitions is their fear of the extra-constitutional consequences

About the legality aspect— outside of media rhetoric, I reckon even the more vocal champions of abrogation would agree with your assessment. Personally, I’m with the government on the need to improve integration of the state — plus — the timing couldn’t be more perfect.

Coming to the topic, Pakistan has a lot of gain from trade with India, for the same reasons response to abrogation of 370 elicited only muted responses — and funnily encouraging even tacit support internationally (including much of the Muslim world). Real criticism internationally would have carried serious implications - legitimising Pakistani narratives and strengthening calls for third party mediators.

Turkey, Malaysia and Iran, the very few who supported pakistani position with China were happy with verbal criticism. OIC also followed suit with no substantive measures against India. UN refused to comment on whether india violated UNSC resolution on Kashmir.

Saudi termed it India’s “internal matter — to help improve social justice — further stability and peace” etc. UAE went ahead and issued their highest civilian honour for our Prime Minister immediately after. Bahrain actually took legal action against Pakistani expats protesting there. Just like Saudi Arabia today, for most countries — J&K is a domestic matter for India.

Why is there so much reticence? I think for most, any interest in legality of amendment of 370 is somewhat tangential.

India has a lot of value for its partners— based on value as a economic/commercial/strategic partner; as a democratic polity etc. For Pakistan, trade with india can ease a lot of pain internally — if actually pursued in earnest. For that to happen, it would make a lot of sense to start figuring a way to back off from your position on 370.

Honestly, Pakistan is partly to blame for their own failure and personally I think it’s really too late for them now to bring this back in focus. Globally there’s even a term called “Kashmir Fatigue”.

Kashmir’s future will be settled by India. Unilaterally and domestically. Punitive actions from Pakistan will only further strengthen the Indian position and support — with the self cultivated image of being a safe haven for terrorism (among other things)

 

[Joe Shearer]

About the legality aspect— outside of media rhetoric, I reckon even the more vocal champions of abrogation would agree with your assessment.

A relief!

Personally, I’m with the government on the need to improve integration of the state — plus — the timing couldn’t be more perfect.

Yes, but how? What have they done, in practical terms, to improve integration of the state with the rest of India?

As for the timing, I am genuinely at a loss to understand why it should have been done then.

Coming to the topic, Pakistan has a lot of gain from trade with India, for the same reasons response to abrogation of 370 elicited only muted responses — and funnily encouraging even tacit support internationally (including much of the Muslim world). Real criticism internationally would have carried serious implications - legitimising Pakistani narratives and strengthening calls for third party mediators.

On that, it would be amazing if anyone, from anywhere, were to object to the abrogation, for the simple reason that it is an article from the Indian constitution, and it is nobody's business but India's. You will note that I am criticising it as an Indian citizen, appalled at the rank illegality - @Pajeet will kill me for this word - of the action, and the crass pandering to their rank and file.

Turkey, Malaysia and Iran, the very few who supported pakistani position with China were happy with verbal criticism. OIC also followed suit with no substantive measures against India. UN refused to comment on whether india violated UNSC resolution on Kashmir.

Even that verbal criticism was, frankly, misplaced. They may object to human rights violations within Kashmir, or any other part of the Union of India. They do not have a leg to stand on criticising the removal of Art. 370.

I suspect that you will be unhappily placed in the same position as I on this.

Saudi termed it India’s “internal matter — to help improve social justice — further stability and peace” etc. UAE went ahead and issued their highest civilian honour for our Prime Minister immediately after. Bahrain actually took legal action against Pakistani expats protesting there. Just like Saudi Arabia today, for most countries — J&K is a domestic matter for India.

Precisely so.

I take exception to the mention of the civilian honour, on the grounds that it was a mistake to award it.

Why is there so much reticence? I think for most, any interest in legality of amendment of 370 is somewhat tangential.

Not tangential; if you insist on hurling geometric and mathematical terms at this humble history student, orthogonal.

India has a lot of value for its partners— based on value as a economic/commercial/strategic partner; as a democratic polity etc. For Pakistan, trade with india can ease a lot of pain internally — if actually pursued in earnest. For that to happen, it would make a lot of sense to start figuring a way to back off from your position on 370.

I don't think more than half-a-dozen Pakistani members even understand what this was all about. One exception would be a notable absentee, @saiyan0321.

Honestly, Pakistan is partly to blame for their own failure and personally I think it’s really too late for them now to bring this back in focus. Globally there’s even a term called “Kashmir Fatigue”.

Sorry, but that is not at all the point.

The point is the failure of the government of India to make good strong Indian citizens of the residents of the Vale.

Kashmir’s future will be settled by India. Unilaterally and domestically. Punitive actions from Pakistan will only further strengthen the Indian position and support — with the self cultivated image of being a safe haven for terrorism (among other things)

True.

Will you tell them that? I will excuse myself on the grounds of age; I have lived my Biblical span and wish to enjoy these sunset days.

 

[maithil]

BC yeah chal kaya raha hai Al-Bakistan me?????

https://twitter.com/x/status/1496003243423539201

Hehehehe.. Phone to leta nahi inka..

 

[IceCold]

He is a next level chutia if he has actually said that. Khota da puttar.

 

[LakeHawk180]

A relief!

Yes, but how? What have they done, in practical terms, to improve integration of the state with the rest of India?

As for the timing, I am genuinely at a loss to understand why it should have been done then.

Practically nothing. In fact, I think they are doing everything to botch this opportunity. International observers are quite willing to chalk this off as realpolitik - keeping with our constitution. Quite a disappointment if the government does not act now.

As for the response to your second question - abrogation happened two months after the BJP victory -- followed immediately by the CAA. Through divine intervention (and maybe a little bit of Chinese support), Covid-19 took center stage around the same time nationalistic politics became mainstream in the US and EU. Perhaps a different US government at the time would have changed everything in terms of a coordinated global response. Oh, and the China threat.

I take exception to the mention of the civilian honour, on the grounds that it was a mistake to award it.

Is it though? Notable recipients include MBS, Xi-Jinping, Putin, Bush, Bashar-Al-Assad, Musharraf among others

Sorry, but that is not at all the point.

The point is the failure of the government of India to make good strong Indian citizens of the residents of the Vale.

I really cannot disagree with you here.

Will you tell them that? I will excuse myself on the grounds of age; I have lived my Biblical span and wish to enjoy these sunset days.

I will excuse myself on the grounds of my sandwich getting cold.

 

[Paitoo]

BC yeah chal kaya raha hai Al-Bakistan me?????

https://twitter.com/x/status/1496003243423539201

Like the "trade" in this thread, this "debate" is never going to happen.

Imran is not stupid though. By making such a proposition that he knows will never materialize, he gets to position himself as a problem solver for a problem that he cannot solve

 

[Chak Bamu]

That's not upto you or, hyperventilating posters in this forum. Even your ultra-nationalist govt of Imran has been reduced to asking for trade resumption in just 2 years. Your next PM will most probably be from Sharif family. And they obviously are Modi ka yaar. They bend backwards to accommodate our demands.

No cow urine. Is that too hard to understand? You may be a marketing rep for whatever-the-hell it is, but no matter what you say we do NOT want anything with cow urine.

No PM or President of Pakistan has ever bent over backwards for India, nor any ever will. This is a fiction of your imagination, made up due to the need to address your deep-seated inferiority complex & an idea of victim-hood.

Pakistan will do fine without direct trade & continue to grow without any over-riding need to trade with India. Pakistan's challenges to economic growth are related to HDI. India does not figure in it directly. You lot have tried your worst & the only thing you have actually accomplished is disfiguring your own selves. We will just watch as your mounting stupidities cause an implosion. Pakistan would remain more stable than India & we will see you guys suffer results of incessant Hindutva policies.

Just the mere fact that you are salivating over a bland personal statement just shows the depth of your mental malaise. So carry on & keep making a fool of yourself. It is entertaining to say the least.

 

[peagle]

Stop lying Indian,

Sir gg, I have to say this is extremely rude.

You are a senior member, far more senior then myself, I have managed to recognise few Indians, that's more just just a couple, who I disagree with but also respect at the same time. Because I recognised they are here for a dialogue not drama.

Such outbursts can be understandable in the heat of the moment, when one is stuck in an argument, but not the way you have done it, it's not right and it's extremely unfair, considering the person you have targeted.

If you view Indian's as a blanket slate, all alike, then I am sorry but it makes you no better then the persons you wish to condemn.
I hope you won't take offence from what I have said, but sometimes one only realises when it is pointed out, I do hope you will give it a thought and recognise your mistake. Stay blessed.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

How exactly is trade with india the need of the hour? Its not like we exported much to india, the imports were more. The trade volume was never significant enough to make it need of the hour. Maybe its need of the hour for his personal businesses.

He is just trying to find an excuse to help India. Don't fall for this.

Do you still think it will be reversed?....... To me, that Modi is not a U-turner like our leaders.

Modi just cancelled farm laws and publicly apologized to the farmers of Punjab.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Practically nothing. In fact, I think they are doing everything to botch this opportunity. International observers are quite willing to chalk this off as realpolitik - keeping with our constitution. Quite a disappointment if the government does not act now.

True, true.

As for the response to your second question - abrogation happened two months after the BJP victory -- followed immediately by the CAA. Through divine intervention (and maybe a little bit of Chinese support), Covid-19 took center stage around the same time nationalistic politics became mainstream in the US and EU. Perhaps a different US government at the time would have changed everything in terms of a coordinated global response. Oh, and the China threat.

LOLOL.

I LIKE your style!

Is it though? Notable recipients include MBS, Xi-Jinping, Putin, Bush, Bashar-Al-Assad, Musharraf among others

May I go into the bushes? Just be a minute or ten.

I really cannot disagree with you here.

I will excuse myself on the grounds of my sandwich getting cold.

A HOT sandwich!

Oh, OK.

 

[peagle]

With China more than eager to help, the need for additional trade between India and Pakistan has been reduced substantially. If and when things get better between us we can open our tourist areas to each other. Or, to put it differently, start granting tourist visas. Not everyone may want to visit 'touristy' places.

I don't think we should wait, putting aside my overall opinion on the matter of trade and such things.
I think limited trade, even if it is indirect is good for our countries, plus cultural and sports links. This view is not out of some desire for commercial benefits, but the fear of a complete break that might be irreparable with each passing year. That link cannot and should not be allowed to be broken at any cost. Because the costs are too great.

Few billion dollars here or there makes no difference, outward Pakistani economic image aside, Pakistan is a large country, few billions don't matter much difference, its all a matter of perspective.

About a year before Pakistan approached the IMF for a $6 billion loan, the Supreme court of Pakistan handed a fine of $5 billion dollars to a single housing developer in Karachi, the court opened an account that will remain under the control of the Supreme court to make sure they don't get away with it, that's just a single housing project.

If a single housing developer is fined $5 billion dollars, then its isn't difficult to see the financial capacity that exist in the country, it is just waiting for better management. The IMF is about a complicated economic structure, that involves more then just the loan.

So all these things are not important, but breaking of that link I fear might become irreversible, and we cannot and should not allow emotions to take us that far.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir gg, I have to say this is extremely rude.

You are a senior member, far more senior then myself, I have managed to recognise few Indians, that's more just just a couple, who I disagree with but also respect at the same time. Because I recognised they are here for a dialogue not drama.

Such outbursts can be understandable in the heat of the moment, when one is stuck in an argument, but not the way you have done it, it's not right and it's extremely unfair, considering the person you have targeted.

If you view Indian's as a blanket slate, all alike, then I am sorry but it makes you no better then the persons you wish to condemn.
I hope you won't take offence from what I have said, but sometimes one only realises when it is pointed out, I do hope you will give it a thought and recognise your mistake. Stay blessed.

Thank you, but it honestly doesn't matter, not as long as there are people like you to talk to, whose integrity is so evident that your word is enough to make a difference. As for those who are embittered and angry, I reflect on the things that I have heard said about Pakistanis - and my own kinfolk, Bangladeshis, and Nepalis, and even our own citizens, and compose myself.

I really appreciate your intervention. It is kind and thoughtful.

Modi just cancelled farm laws and publicly apologized to the farmers of Punjab.

May it be a trend-setting event.

 

[Turingsage]

Decline In Tourism Since Removal Of Article 370 In J&K: Centre

You have ignored Covid which has devastated tourism across al India and the world.
90,000 foreign tourists but how many visit Pakistan part of Kashmir ????
Tourism will boom again when travel returns across the world.

 

[Paitoo]

I don't think we should wait, putting aside my overall opinion on the matter of trade and such things.
I think limited trade, even if it is indirect is good for our countries, plus cultural and sports links. This view is not out of some desire for commercial benefits, but the fear of a complete break that might be irreparable with each passing year. That link cannot and should not be allowed to be broken at any cost. Because the costs are too great.

Wise words, although I feel that the overwhelming feeling on both sides (at least those who matter) is that 'things need to get better first'. They have their own compelling reasons and one sometimes feels that by ignoring them one is betraying the popular sentiment and is possibly out of touch with reality. The kind of artificial separation that exists between India and Pakistan does not exist anymore in any part of the world, except the Koreas.