TPP failure would cost the US trade dominance

[vtnsx]

TPP Signatories Must Press Vietnam to Drop Proposed 'Draconian' Laws: Rights Group
RFA Friday 20th November, 2015

The United States and other signatories to a major free trade agreement between Pacific Rim countries should pressure Vietnam to drop proposed laws that would allow the authorities to expand a crackdown on critics of the one party communist government, a rights group said Friday.

Vietnam is using vague national security laws to stifle dissent, New York-based Human Rights Watch said in a statement, adding that signatories to the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) must push Vietnam to halt legislation that would add even more penalties to its "already draconian criminal code."

Twelve Pacific Rim countries--the U.S., Vietnam, Brunei, Chile, New Zealand, Singapore, Australia, Canada, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico and Peru--signed the TPP on Oct. 5 after seven years of negotiations, agreeing to lower tariffs and establish a dispute settlement mechanism for trade.

Read more here:
Vietnam News - TPP Signatories Must Press Vietnam to Drop Proposed 'Draconian' Laws: Rights Group

"It appears that the Vietnamese government played nice during TPP negotiations, but now that the agreement has been signed it is taking steps to tighten government control over critics," he said.

wow, talking about stupid VCP.

@William Hung
@dichoi
@Viva_Viet
@Rechoice

 

[Brainsucker]

So TPP is not about economy but Human Right? LOL

 

[cnleio]

So TPP is not about economy but Human Right? LOL

That case Amreican playing very well in Ukraine, in Arab Spring. They believe to get free lunch from U.S through TPP, before Vietnam to get what they wants firstly should changed to what American want in Vietnam.

 

[dichoi]

wow, talking about stupid VCP.

He, he, I do think that VCP ís not stupid, bro. In fact TPP is not related to policy, internal affair of Vietnam. When you have time you can run around on internet or newspaper, or media in Vietnam you find out many critic, complements related to management of govt.

One thing is about labour Union stated in TPP, employee could formed their own Union in the company where they have engaged to work., this union is independent from state union. employee could fight with their own factory owner for their interests.

 

[Brainsucker]

He, he, I do think that VCP ís not stupid, bro. In fact TPP is not related to policy, internal affair of Vietnam. When you have time you can run around on internet or newspaper, or media in Vietnam you find out many critic, complements related to management of govt.

One thing is about labour Union stated in TPP, employee could formed their own Union in the company where they have engaged to work., this union is independent from state union. employee could fight with their own factory owner for their interests.

It is not about how VCP handling the people. It is a political pressure from United States to Vietnam using TPP forum. Something that shouldn't be happen as TPP is a economic partnership.

 

[Viva_Viet]

Text of the Trans-Pacific Partnership

Pls read the TPP text from the link. I think TPP dont say much abt changing politic ways.

"TPP create a win-win deal for all TPP members, and who is the loser ?? Its none TPP members". Quoted from VN news.

 

[dichoi]

It is not about how VCP handling the people. It is a political pressure from United States to Vietnam using TPP forum. Something that shouldn't be happen as TPP is a economic partnership.

Political pression of US to Vietnam is old story.

The Biggest Winner From TPP Trade Deal May Be Vietnam - Bloomberg Business

 

[beijingwalker]

TPP can only benefit those who secretly made the rules of it and countries which join this group will stop functioning as sovereign governments.

 

[vtnsx]

He, he, I do think that VCP ís not stupid, bro. In fact TPP is not related to policy, internal affair of Vietnam. When you have time you can run around on internet or newspaper, or media in Vietnam you find out many critic, complements related to management of govt.

One thing is about labour Union stated in TPP, employee could formed their own Union in the company where they have engaged to work., this union is independent from state union. employee could fight with their own factory owner for their interests.

Dichoi, nothing can fool me bro. If you didn't read the article I posted. I highly recommend that you so we can be on the same subject.

VCP can't fool anyone, especially when it comes to freedom of speech and human rights. Vietnam is in a 2 years probation with TPP, do you understand? It means if Vietnam doesn't met the requirements regarding TPP, it will be kicked out from the group.

You live in Vietnam, bro. Most people in Vietnam don't understand western businesses. Especially a country like Vietnam that was under pressure for 40-50 years. If anything, I'd recommend you read more about international businesses and laws. Especially when you're dealing with investors from outside your country, Vietnam.

I'll repost this comment from the article.

"It appears that the Vietnamese government played nice during TPP negotiations, but now that the agreement has been signed it is taking steps to tighten government control over critics," he said.

International investors need the right to voice out their concerns and criticism freely without being arrested or jailed. Otherwise, Vietnam will lose all investors and face more problems in the future.

TPP can only benefit those who secretly made the rules of it and countries which join this group will stop functioning as sovereign governments.

That's not the point of TPP. Vietnam is tested for its government's policy on how they will handle human rights and freedom, freedom of speech and business laws and ethics. Without those things, you cannot have a functional trading partner. No investors would want to invest in a country that doesn't protect the inventor/creator. If there's no ROI, then there's no reason to invest. So simple, but I don't think the corrupted Vietnamese government would sink that to their head. Not all Vietnamese official are corrupted but 99% of them are. Guaranteed. I know about this subject better than any Vietnamese in this forum.

The issue with Vietnamese government nowadays is taking in criticism. They cannot handle it.

 

[dichoi]

Dichoi, nothing can fool me bro. If you didn't read the article I posted. I highly recommend that you so we can be on the same subject.

VCP can't fool anyone, especially when it comes to freedom of speech and human rights. Vietnam is in a 2 years probation with TPP, do you understand? It means if Vietnam doesn't met the requirements regarding TPP, it will be kicked out from the group.

You live in Vietnam, bro. Most people in Vietnam don't understand western businesses. Especially a country like Vietnam that was under pressure for 40-50 years. If anything, I'd recommend you read more about international businesses and laws. Especially when you're dealing with investors from outside your country, Vietnam.

I'll repost this comment from the article.

"It appears that the Vietnamese government played nice during TPP negotiations, but now that the agreement has been signed it is taking steps to tighten government control over critics," he said.

International investors need the right to voice out their concerns and criticism freely without being arrested or jailed. Otherwise, Vietnam will lose all investors and face more problems in the future.

OK, I understand what do you mean here. Any case, for me, Joining to TPP is good deal of VCP for Vietnam, for Vietnam people. What will happen in future ? There is unstopped tendency, I do think so.

 

[vtnsx]

OK, I understand what do you mean here. Any case, for me, Joining to TPP is good deal of VCP for Vietnam, for Vietnam people. What will happen in future ? There is unstopped tendency, I do think so.

As long as Vietnam follow those steps, it shouldn't be a problem. Investors should be supported and not taking advantage of. When Vietnam start to see growth, changes will happen and people will be more open and more acceptable to it for sure.

 

[beijingwalker]

Lessons from NAFTA for the TPP
Updated: 10/22/2015 3:59 pm EDT

There are many lessons from the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) that are relevant to the current debate over the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP). First, like the TPP, NAFTA was never mostly about trade, and even less about free trade. In 1994, the U.S. already had low tariff barriers to Mexican goods. The agreement was much more about creating and expanding new rights and privileges for investors, mostly multinational corporations. For example, the Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS) provision of NAFTA allowed corporations to sue governments directly for laws or judicial decisions that infringed upon their profits.

This became a threat to environmental, food safety, public health and other regulation. The main concern is that the sovereign laws and judicial systems of the signatories of treaties such as NAFTA could be subordinated to a tribunal established by the agreement, without the guarantees and extent of due process of, for example, the U.S. legal system, and by judges who were generally more sympathetic to corporations than to the public interest.

The ISDS is one of the most important provisions of the TPP that has evoked opposition from environmental and other public interest groups. Proponents of the treaty argue that we now have ISDS in dozens of international agreements, and there have been only 13 judgments against the U.S. But as economist Jeffrey Sachs haspointed out, corporations are just getting started with using this advantage: "In 1995, only a handful of ISDS cases had been filed; as of the end of 2014, there had been more than 600 known claims (because most arbitration can be conducted in secrecy, there may have been many more claims)."

Since NAFTA, economists have also learned that the gains from the parts of these agreements that have to do with trade are extremely small. The most widely cited estimate of the gains to the U.S. from the TPP come to about 0.4 percent of GDP after 10 years - that's a total after 10 years, not an annual gain. This would be barely noticeable. And even worse, the likely impact of the TPP on wage inequality would wipe out these gains for most wage earners, so that most people would be worse off as a result of the agreement. Even worse, the TPP's provisions that strengthen and lengthen patent and copyright protection, according to the drafts that have been leaked, would have even more of an impact in the upward distribution of income. It is no exaggeration when opponents of the TPP refer to the agreement as a "corporate power grab."

Of course, Mexico did pretty badly in the 20 years following NAFTA. While Latin America as a whole did very badly in the last 20 years of the 20th century (total growth in GDP per capita was just 5.7 percent over the two decades, as compared with 91.5 percent in the previous 20 years [1960-1980]), the rest of the region rebounded in the 20th century. But Mexico's per-capita growth was just 18.6 percent for 1994-2014, about half that of the rest of the region. Mexico's poverty rate of 52.3 percent was almost the same as in 1994, thus adding 14.3 million people to the population living below the poverty line.

The lessons from NAFTA are a big part of the reason that the Obama administration is having so much trouble getting the TPP past Congress. Of course the TPP's proponents have also learned lessons from NAFTA: That's why its contents have been kept secret from the public throughout the negotiations.

Lessons from NAFTA for the TPP | Mark Weisbrot

 

[beijingwalker]

Mexico as a poor partner was supposed to benefit the most from NAFTA, but instead she suffered the most. TPP,just as NAFTA, only benefits those who made the rules, namely big corporations.

 

[oproh]

I think the vietnamese are willing to suffer just to support the continuous and smooth growth of big brother america.

 

[oproh]

Ensuring that america continues to grow prosperous is the number one priority of vietnam.