‘Tortured’ prisoner’s body arrives from India

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I like how my message gets heeded immediately:

Folks,

While it is understandably an emotional subject, try and keep stereotypical and/or derogatory comments off the board please. Thank you.

By resorting to this:

Your just confirming what i always thought of indians.

Come on guys, calm down a bit - discourse can be conducted with civility and without denigrating an entire nation/ethnicity/religion/race/caste/creed...well you get the picture I'm sure.

No responses to the posters quoted comment please.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

According to the Indian high commission, he was also referred to General Hospital, Gurgaon, last December. When he developed abdominal distension on February 1, 2008, he was treated at this hospital.

Later, on February 11, 2008, he was referred to Safdarjung Hospital in New Delhi and then transferred to AIIMS for further treatment. Unfortunately, he succumbed to his ailment on February 12, 2008.

The Pakistan High Commission in New Delhi was immediately informed of Mehmood's death and requested to intimate his next of kin to collect the dead body, the statement said.

The Pakistan HC acknowledged this on February 13, 2008, but only conveyed to the Indian Government on March 5, 2008, 22 days later, that the relatives had been contacted and they had desired that the body be transported to Pakistan for burial as per Islamic rites.

Islamabad News

The Pakistani HC was informed the very next day. He was an undertrial prisoner will all due process applied. Stop lying, people.

Wait, what are we arguing about here? The fact that he was tortured and possibly killed? The Indian High Commission is not going to contact the GoP and tell them that he died from "torture" obviously - it would have to be something mundane and normal. So I think that skepticism over the IHC version is valid until more facts can be ascertained about his treatment.

 

[Samudra]

So I think that skepticism over the IHC version is valid until more facts can be ascertained about his treatment.

An autopsy would indeed help. I think the skepticism is unfounded because the GoP has not alleged any mistreatment up to now.

And. Interrogation and torture techniques are old tricks. Everybody in the business knows how to torture a prisoner without killing him.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Samudra:

I think a lot of people are skeptical because of statements made by the victims family, such as this:

Relatives who visited Khalid in a jail in New Delhi said his nails had been pulled off, his body bore torture marks and his eyes had sunk, according to his brother Inamul Haq.

Relatives of Pakistani prisoner accuse Indian officials of torture @ NewKerala.Com News, India

 

[Samudra]

I think a lot of people are skeptical because of statements made by the victims family

I believe people should allow them to grieve the loss first rather than grabbing news grabs from their mouths. Then, if there was indeed torture or if they had any evidence indicating the same they could have approached the Pak high commission or even the Indian courts. They are understandably angry but there wasn't much we could do about it.

They're grieved and angry as any family would be but those claims are really unsubstantiated because they could've acted before - there are so many venues such as HRC, our courts and PHC.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I believe people should allow them to grieve the loss first rather than grabbing news grabs from their mouths. Then, if there was indeed torture or if they had any evidence indicating the same they could have approached the Pak high commission or even the Indian courts. They are understandably angry but there wasn't much we could do about it.

They're grieved and angry as any family would be but those claims are really unsubstantiated because they could've acted before - there are so many venues such as HRC, our courts and PHC.

I think at the moment, in the "he said, she said" mess between the GoP and GoI, the family's comments are tilting the scales of which story is correct, and Pakistani sentiment, in favor of the "tortured to death" view. I don't think anyone is going to accept impugning the "motives" of a grieving family, its just not done. It may not necessarily be the most accurate means of establishing what happened, but (here comes the distrust factor again) people will accept their version of the events, similar to how the media and Pakistanis (and even a majority of Indians, going by the comments on the WAB) did not believe the X-Rays, and external examination of BB, when confronted with the accusation by her close confidantes and family that she was shot.

Heck, even when Scotland yard validated the findings the PPP leadership was still on about how she was shot, and people still believed them over the Government. Don't expect people to extend any more leeway to the GoI on this matter, especially when the family of the victim does not, at this point, have political motivation (like the PPP did) to "distort" the facts. Torture is unfortunately commonplace in both our societies and when high profile cases like this come into the media glare, its the price that has to be paid...

 

[Samudra]

From what I know interrogators are taught to torture without killing the victim. It's trade practice to torture spies but this guy did not die because of torture because its been so many years since they caught him.

I don't think anyone is going to accept impugning the "motives" of a grieving family, its just not done.

That's why I'll wait for the autopsy.

Reg BB. Recall what the GoP spokesmen were spinning out. That led to a lot of doubts.

 

[blain2]

What GoP said was right in the case of BB. The Scotland Yard attested to the same.

 

[Goodperson]

Khalid Mehmood died of illness, says Indian HC

ISLAMABAD: The High Commission of India has said Khalid Mehmood, an under-trial prisoner in India whose body arrived in Pakistan on March 10 (Monday), died of illness on February 12, 2008.

A statement issued by Indian HC says politicising the case and suppressing the facts serves no purpose other than to heighten the anguish of the bereaved family. Mehmood went to India on a four-day cricket visa in April 2005. He then disappeared and was apprehended by the Faridabad Police on May 17, 2006, more than a year after his visa had expired, it said.

The statement said sensitive documents were recovered from Mehmood's possession which he was carrying to Delhi to deliver to some persons who were traveling to Pakistan by Samjhota Express.

As per standard practice, an FIR was filed and a case registered against Mehmood under various sections of the law, including the Foreigners Act, the Passport Act, the Official Secrets Act and the Indian Penal Code, it said.

He was produced before a court in Faridabad and trialed in a jail in Gurgaon till May 25, 2006, according to the statement.

Currently, neither country officially notifies the other when its nationals are arrested, it said, adding, however, it is strange that Mehmood's family also did not bring to the Pakistan Government's attention the fact that Mehmood had been missing for almost three years and did not return from India in April 2005.

This has been confirmed by the MFA's spokesman Wednesday, the press release said. Someone must explain why he disappeared and what the real purpose of his travel was, since he did not return to Pakistan along with hundreds of other cricket fans, it said.

While in prison, Mehmood was provided medical treatment as per his symptoms from time to time, the statement said.

According to the Indian high commission, he was also referred to General Hospital, Gurgaon, last December. When he developed abdominal distension on February 1, 2008, he was treated at this hospital.

Later, on February 11, 2008, he was referred to Safdarjung Hospital in New Delhi and then transferred to AIIMS for further treatment. Unfortunately, he succumbed to his ailment on February 12, 2008.

The Pakistan High Commission in New Delhi was immediately informed of Mehmood's death and requested to intimate his next of kin to collect the dead body, the statement said.

The Pakistan HC acknowledged this on February 13, 2008, but only conveyed to the Indian Government on March 5, 2008, 22 days later, that the relatives had been contacted and they had desired that the body be transported to Pakistan for burial as per Islamic rites.

Accordingly, the body was brought to the Wagah border on March 10, 2008.

It is emphasised that no torture was inflicted on Mehmood while he was an under-trial prisoner. Necessary post-mortem reports were also handed over to his relatives along with the dead body, the statement concluded.

Islamabad News

____________________________________________________________________________

First of all I condemn if Khalid was tortured by Indian authorities however I am getting confliciting reports.

There was cause of suspicion because not all the visitors to Cricket match had gone to Pakistan and morever Khalid was not in police custody he was on Judical custody and was treated in Indias Premier medical institute so torture from police can be ruled out even when one ignores the accusation of khalid carrying sensitive documents.

Khalid was not alone who disappered after expiry of their visa, I suspect others families must have the knowledge about their whereabouts.
They should make use of goodwill generated by Kashmir's release and surrender to be repatriated back to Pakistan.

 

[EagleEyes]

The prisoner died because of a disease: Indian High Commissioner

Pakistani civilian dies of disease: Indian High Commissioner

What a load of bullshit. What kind of disease is this? Worst than Cancer and AIDS!

Can this disease be called "hate"?

 

[MastanKhan]

Imran Khan---Never---,

Please have some respect for this board and use proper writing techniques---use caps where neccessary---Thanks.

Samudra,

The man died on your watch---in your country---in your custody and charged as a spy---some over zealous officer went over board and could not get a conffession---felt embarrassed in front of his juniors and just let the victim have it with both the barrels---he didnot know when to stop torturing---it happens when agencies have no control over their operatives, first of all---secondly, there is too much personal hatred and contempt for the man of the other nation by the torturer---and as usual hatred and dislike blind the sense of reasoning---and contempt for the enemy makes you do inhumane things to the adversary---and that is when the animal in the man comes out. That is what happened in this case---things went out of control---big egos were involved---when it was time to stop---there was no one in charge to say sdtop---because the man in-charge was the one who had gone out of control---.


Samudra---read this news---it will you a fair insight into your itelligence agency torture practises


Taylor 'made rebels eat enemies'

Mr Taylor is accused of funding Sierra Leone's former rebels
Ex-Liberian President Charles Taylor ordered militias to eat the flesh of their enemies, a former death squad leader has told his war crimes trial.
Joseph "Zigzag" Marzah said Mr Taylor had instructed his fighters in Liberia to even eat UN peacekeepers to "set an example for the people to be afraid".

Mr Taylor is on trial at The Hague for backing rebels in Sierra Leone in an 11-year war in which thousands died.

He has denied the 11 charges of crimes against humanity and war crimes.

The trial at the UN-backed Special Court for Sierra Leone has been moved away from West Africa because of fears that it could lead to renewed instability in the region.

It began last June, but was adjourned until January after only one day when Mr Taylor dismissed his lawyer. Many witnesses have since testified behind closed doors.

Cannibalism

Mr Marzah, a key prosecution witness, agreed to appear in open court only after lengthy negotiations over the protection provided for him and his family.

He said we should eat them... Even the UN white people - he said we could use them as pork to eat

Joseph "Zigzag" Marzah

Describing himself as Mr Taylor's former chief of operations and commander of a death squad in Liberia and Sierra Leone, Mr Marzah said the former leader ordered militias to eat the flesh of enemies in Liberia, including African and UN peacekeepers.

"He said we should eat them. Even the UN white people - he said we could use them as pork to eat," Mr Marzah said, adding that it was to "set an example for the people to be afraid".

He said repeatedly that nothing was done without an explicit order from Mr Taylor and that anyone who violated his commands would be executed.


Mr Taylor began an uprising against the Liberian government in 1991

Mr Marzah then recalled how the victims of the cannibalism were usually members of the Krahn tribe of Liberia's former president, Samuel Doe, who was in power in 1989 when Mr Taylor started the country's six-year civil war.

However, he said they had also included troops from the West African Ecomog peacekeeping force, which was deployed in 1990, and some UN peacekeepers.

The international peacekeepers eventually helped stabilise Liberia, leading to a peace agreement in 1995 and a presidential election two years later that Mr Taylor won.

"We ate a few [Ecomog soldiers], but not many. But many were executed, about 68," Mr Marzah said.

'Throw away the head'

When asked by defence lawyer Courtenay Griffith about how the militiamen would "prepare a human being" for eating, Mr Marzah described the splitting, cleaning, decapitating and cooking of the corpse with salt and pepper.

"We slit your throat, butcher you... throw away the head, take the flesh and put it in a pot... Charles Taylor knows that," he added.

Mr Marzah also described how he had killed so many men, women and children that he had lost count, and also slit open the stomachs of pregnant women on Mr Taylor's orders.

Earlier in his testimony, Mr Marzah told the court he had taken weapons, some stored at Mr Taylor's presidential mansion, to Sierra Leone and returned to Liberia with diamonds which he then delivered to Mr Taylor.

Mr Taylor is accused of funding Sierra Leone's former rebels, the Revolutionary United Front, by selling diamonds on their behalf and buying weapons for them.

The RUF became notorious for hacking off the hands and legs of civilians during their armed rebellion in Sierra Leone from 1991 to 2002.

 

[Iceman]

i tell you what .... the guy was infact so ill that his NAILS fell off and such a horrendous disease at that, it appears as if they had been ripped off ..... the Doctors call it .... Pulled-with-a-plier-itis. Very common to people who are detained in India on suspicion I repeat suspicion of spying.

 

[Iceman]

This is the kinda message we receive from the Indians. We hand over a spy who later confessed on doing so once he reaches India (for Rs 400 pm) and in return we get a badly mutilated and tortured body of a young man. Obviously tortured and badly mutilated, the Indians still refuse to admit that torture is the cause of his death.
Astra It just happens so that the regular patrolling was being conducted in Pakistani side of the LOC. and they were gunned down. So no hard feelings there... or do you expect that we should provide a guide to the patrolling party. Next time i guess we should also keep that in mind ....
Lawyers are not missing, they did not go home because they were in a rally ... so no fret there as well.....
In return to the fishermen issue ... it also happens so that they were fishing in the Pakistani side of the maritime bdry .... what do you want .. i mean ... i beleive you'd say .... catch all the fish and give it to the Indian fishermen as a CBM ...????

I am not at all saying that we dont do things ..... but itnay saaf suthray (neat and clean) and Doodh kay dhullay (milk baathed) tum bhi nahin ho .......

The bottom line is ..... this was an immoral and brutal act displayed by the Indians. I sure hope i catch an Indian spy .... and then we'd see ... i will return him for sure .. but in installments....

 

[maqsad]

Usually when you torture someone it is either because you don't have modern equipment available to get the truth out of the suspect, or the second reason is you know they are innocent and want to just extract a fake confession.

This ridiculous claim that the alleged "spy" was carrying documents to a train for transportation sounds like something from the 18th century to begin with. Obviously RAW was under pressure to produce a spy which they never had so they tried to create a fake spy in response to the release of Kashmir Singh. That is the real reason for the turture...to extract a false confession.

 

[Karma]

i tell you what .... the guy was infact so ill that his NAILS fell off and such a horrendous disease at that, it appears as if they had been ripped off ..... the Doctors call it .... Pulled-with-a-plier-itis. Very common to people who are detained in India on suspicion I repeat suspicion of spying.

If his relatives had visited him in jail and he was tortured, why didn't they bring it to the notice of the Pakistan High Commission , GoP or even the media earlier?

He was on a four days visa and supposed to return after the matches, but he didn't. Why didn't his family or the GoP bring it to the notice of Indian government earlier? So, his family and GoP know that he will overstay here?

His family and GoP are creating this issue only after the announcement of his death by the GoI, otherwise, they will be silent. Why there is so much cover up?

Why did he overstayed here?