To all Indian members here. A question...

[Kloitra]

This logic is correct after we recognized it as your part of territory not before it.I am just asking on what basis China said that the agreement bw Tibet gov. and British India is null and void??

Read my post above, Tibet was an autonomous region. There was a Tibetan govt but it had no right in its own to make border agreements.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Read my post above, Tibet was an autonomous region. There was a Tibetan govt but it had no right in its own to make border agreements.

In fact, no country in the world ever recognized Tibet as an independent country.

Not back then, and not now. Never.

If they are not an independent country, and if they are a part of China, how can Tibetan separatists have any authority to negotiate on our borders?

 

[Janmejay]

Read my post above, Tibet was an autonomous region. There was a Tibetan govt but it had no right in its own to make border agreements..

I perfectly got your point,now answer my post 180.

How can you negotiate with Tibetan separatists on the issue of China's territory?

Chinese territory on the basis of maps from Yuang dynasty?? Now read my post 180.

 

[Kloitra]

The Tibetan Government in Exile already admitted to the New York Times that it was engaged in violent activities against China, even after the 1959 armed uprising.

New York Times - Dalai Lama Group Says It Got Money From C.I.A.



After 1959 they were hosted in India. And according to their own statement, they were conducting guerrilla operations against China during the 1960's.

Hard to understand. May be he thought of their actions as insignificant, something that the Chinese would overlook. May be he thought giving shelter to a religious leader would be good for local vote bank. His policies cost India to date.

 

[Genesis]

Ok i got your point but if we go by this logic Turks and Arabs can claim whole of Northern part of India and whole Pakistan becasue they ruled it at one point of time or India can claim whole of Pakistan just because some ruler from India ruled whole of Pakistan in history or Japan can claim some Parts of China because they controlled it even though for small time!!!

Here's the difference.

Qing dynasty ruled Tibet.

Qing past the government to republic of China head by then temporary president Sun ZhongShan(Mandarine spelling, the right one.)

Sun, later created the republic of China government again and incorporated the communist party in his three policies.

Communist party was purged by Chang, and so started the civil war.

Communist won and we inherited the country from Sun.


Do you see this link? We inherited from republic of China which inherited from Qing, which includes Tibet.


Pakistan and India agreed from the British on the split, so any claim was forfeited, and any other claims are not direct claims. The dynasties changed, and the succeeding dynasties are not necessarily include all the occupier's territory.


For example, Ming China took China back from the mongols, but we don't have rights to Russia and middle east, because it is not the successor to Mongols, but rather broke apart from Mongols.


People's republic is the direct successor to the republic of China which included Tibet, and Qing dynasty which also included Tibet. We were just too busy with civil wars, weakness and Japanese to take care of Tibet separatists.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I perfectly got your point,now answer my post 180.


Chinese territory on the basis of maps from Yuang dynasty?? Now read my post 180.

Firstly, there is no such thing as the Yuang Dynasty, and second, your points relating to this thread have been answered.

If you wanted your deal with the Tibetan separatists to be recognized, then why didn't you recognize Tibet as an independent country, which would make it legally valid?

No, you never recognized Tibet as an independent country. Just the opposite, you recognized Tibet as a part of China!

 

[Kloitra]

I perfectly got your point,now answer my post 180.


Chinese territory on the basis of maps from Yuang dynasty?? Now read my post 180.

Arabs/Turks ruled a part of India for a small period of time, when India was not a nation state. Even with them as rulers, India was not part of a foreign country, but they ruled from within India, as Indians. They only had a foreign ancestry, no other connection. So no, those country have no claim on India.

China as a nation is continuum of ancient China. Even during the period of British-Tibetian conflicts/treaties, Tibet was part of China. Not a country/princely state in itself.

 

[Janmejay]

Here's the difference.

Qing dynasty ruled Tibet.

Qing past the government to republic of China head by then temporary president Sun ZhongShan(Mandarine spelling, the right one.)

Sun, later created the republic of China government again and incorporated the communist party in his three policies.

Communist party was purged by Chang, and so started the civil war.

Communist won and we inherited the country from Sun.


Do you see this link? We inherited from republic of China which inherited from Qing, which includes Tibet.


Pakistan and India agreed from the British on the split, so any claim was forfeited, and any other claims are not direct claims. The dynasties changed, and the succeeding dynasties are not necessarily include all the occupier's territory.


For example, Ming China took China back from the mongols, but we don't have rights to Russia and middle east, because it is not the successor to Mongols, but rather broke apart from Mongols.


People's republic is the direct successor to the republic of China which included Tibet, and Qing dynasty which also included Tibet. We were just too busy with civil wars, weakness and Japanese to take care of Tibet separatists.

Ok i got it,One more question,Was Tibet also under Qing dynasty just before they past the gov. to ShuZhongSan or they lost it because of the various internal factors you mentioned??

Arabs/Turks ruled a part of India for a small period of time, when India was not a nation state. Even with them as rulers, India was not part of a foreign country, but they ruled from within India, as Indians. They only had a foreign ancestry, no other connection. So no, those country have no claim on India.

China as a nation is continuum of ancient China. Even during the period of British-Tibetian conflicts/treaties, Tibet was part of China. Not a country/princely state in itself.

Ok i got your point but here we are assuming that any claims on land that was administered by any of the dynasty before of handling it to Communist or Democratic Gov. will be legitimate.Arent we??

 

[Genesis]

Ok i got it,One more question,Was Tibet also under Qing dynasty just before they past the gov. to ShuZhongSan or they lost it because of the various internal factors you mentioned??

There were rebellions, but just before in fact in 1910, Qing went in and crushed it, and regained complete control over Tibet. As of 1911, Tibet is under Qing's complete control.

Tibet during the republic was declared a province, but due to internal warfare and other worries including the Japanese, but not limiting to it, the surrounding areas were under the control of Ma warlords who were republic Generals, but had a lot of autonomy due to their armies and the weakness of the government.


So the CCP went into Tibet to reestablish control over an area that was not obeying orders, but still by every right a province that was passed from Qing to us.

 

[Kloitra]

Ok i got your point but here we are assuming that any claims on land that was administered by any of the dynasty before of handling it to Communist or Democratic Gov. will be legitimate.Arent we??

As for as Tibet is concerned, it has been administered by Chinese government in its current borders for atleast past 200 years bar a short 40 year period of internal power struggles within China. The Tibetan region has been under Chinese administration for several hundred years.

. The current borders of Tibet were generally established in the 18th century.[1] Following the collapse of the Qing dynasty in 1912, Qing soldiers were disarmed and escorted out of Tibet Area (Ü-Tsang). The region declared its independence in 1913. Later Lhasa took control of the western part of Xikang Province. The region maintained its autonomy until 1951 when, following the Invasion of Tibet, Tibet became unified into the People's Republic of China (PRC), and the previous Tibetan government was abolished in 1959 after a failed uprising

 

[Killswitch]

Good fences make good neighbours.


Waiting for the following:

50+ Agni V aimed at the PRC
Mountain strike corps (has just begun)
155mm arty (light towed spg)
F INSAS (some of the gear is ready but no troops equipped yet)
20+ chinooks
22+ apache longbows
FICV
New Manpads
New LR SAM


Road, rail, tunnels,etc.

When all of this is done then maybe India can talk peace with the PRC. Until then they will try to bully India.

 

[Pride]

In my opinion, It was all Nehru's policy failure. Nehru granted permanent seat to China, Nehru agreed Tibet as a part of China according to Old maps of China as well as accepted Tibetan refugees, Nehru asked Army to attack patrolling Chinese army even though China asked for discussion. I still feel, these issues would have resolved by talks if Nehru would have shown some sensibility. Rest all backstabbing stories are made up by Congress to save their A$$.

 

[favabeans]

In my opinion, It was all Nehru's policy failure. Nehru granted permanent seat to China, Nehru agreed Tibet as a part of China according to Old maps of China as well as accepted Tibetan refugees, Nehru asked Army to attack patrolling Chinese army even though China asked for discussion. I still feel, these issues would have resolved by talks if Nehru would have shown some sensibility. Rest all backstabbing stories are made up by Congress to save their A$$.

Where did you learn your history? The UN was founded in 1945, BEFORE India was even a country.
The permanent UN Security Council seats were given to the five victorious allies of World War II, which are the U.S., U.K., France, the Soviet Union, and China. India was a colony of Britain and contributed very little to allied victory over Germany and Japan.

I see, Nehru continues his lies through history textbooks.

What did you Indians do to deserve such the disastrous Nehru family of cronies and idiots?

 

[Nan Yang]

Hard to understand. May be he thought of their actions as insignificant, something that the Chinese would overlook. May be he thought giving shelter to a religious leader would be good for local vote bank. His policies cost India to date.

It is also Dalai Lama’s poor leadership.

He first wanted independent by kicking out ROC.
Then he signed the 17pt agreement and unify with China
Then he listen to the West and rebel and run off to India
Then he decided to talk with China when the West back stab him
Then he break off talks expecting China to collapse during TAM incident
Then he decided to talk again when China did not collapse
Then he listen to the West again and “Tarik Harga” during the run up the Beijing Olympic

 

[jandk]

Arabs/Turks ruled a part of India for a small period of time, when India was not a nation state. Even with them as rulers, India was not part of a foreign country, but they ruled from within India, as Indians. They only had a foreign ancestry, no other connection. So no, those country have no claim on India.

China as a nation is continuum of ancient China. Even during the period of British-Tibetian conflicts/treaties, Tibet was part of China. Not a country/princely state in itself.

Arabs never ruled over India. Turks never did either. The mughals were turkic but had nothing in common with the anatolian turks.