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Time to shun the past

fatman17

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Time to shun the past

By Iqbal Ahmad Khan

Wednesday, 22 Jul, 2009

A policy of confrontation with India contains within itself the seeds of our destruction and must be avoided like the plague. It has become a millstone around our neck. At the heart of Pakistan’s foreign and security policies lies India and at the heart of our India policy lies Kashmir, Pakistan’s jugular vein as the country’s founder described it.

Kashmir has bedeviled Pakistan-India relations, is the source of insecurity and instability in the region and a cause of serious concern for the international community.

India reneged on its commitments to Pakistan, the United Nations and the Kashmiris to the holding of a plebiscite in the state. Six rounds of Bhutto-Swaran Singh talks, focused entirely on Kashmir, in 1962-3, proved inconclusive. The negotiations took place in the wake of India’s Himalayan debacle at the hands of China and on the serious prodding of the United States and Great Britain.

Having exhausted the path of diplomacy with an intransigent India, Pakistan embarked on a strategy to bring India to the table in a serious and meaningful engagement on the dispute. In 1965 Pakistan launched Operation Gibraltar in a bid to get Kashmiris to rise against their Indian occupiers. That did not happen. Instead, Pakistan and India got involved in a full-scale war, which neither could afford. After 17 days both were exhausted.

Whatever implications the war might have had for India, its consequences for Pakistan were disastrous. The perceived economic growth that Pakistan had been enjoying for several years and which was widely quoted as a model for Third World countries came to an abrupt halt. Western sanctions were imposed on Pakistan; East Pakistanis were extremely disenchanted leading Mujibur Rahman to launch his six-point programme and the country was engulfed in political turmoil. Six years later Pakistan was embroiled in another war with India. Its outcome was the disintegration of the country.

The East Pakistan tragedy should have prompted an earnest and urgent review of our policy towards India. The security establishment, however, was successful in having recommendations of the Hamoodur Rahman Commission report, which called for the trial of Gen Yahya and his confederacy of generals, shelved. It also managed to have high priority assigned and substantial resources allocated to the rebuilding of the armed forces. After all, East Pakistan had to be avenged.

The military, once again, began to loom large in Pakistan’s politics leading to its logical conclusion. Not only was the democratic government overthrown in a coup d’état, but Pakistan’s most popular and accomplished prime minister was dispatched to the gallows.

The Indian factor again played a major role in Pakistan’s reaction to the Soviet Union’s invasion of Afghanistan. The military dictator, who had usurped power on July 5, 1977, enthusiastically embraced the US which lent a new lease of life to his shaky and sanctioned government. The uni-dimensional military-based relationship with the US improved the military balance vis-à-vis India.

The victory of the Mujahideen against a superpower prompted him and his coterie of generals to (a) adopt the ‘strategic depth’ doctrine by ensuring that the new regime in Kabul should be so ingratiated to Pakistan as to invariably do its bidding; (b) employ the CIA-ISI Mujahideen model, successfully used in the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan, against India in occupied Kashmir. The former strategy led to the emergence of the Taliban Frankenstein; the latter to such jihadi outfits as the Lashkar-i-Taiba, Jaish-i-Mohammad and the Harkat-ul-Ansar.

It did not take long for Al Qaeda, the Taliban and others to establish a nexus for the use of terror against their adversaries. Neither were the Taliban able to provide strategic depth, nor were the jihadis able to coerce India into settling the Kashmir dispute. The policy, in fact, dangerously backfired, with these battle-hardened and self-sustaining militants posing an existentialist threat to Pakistan itself.

As if the failure of our strategy was not enough of a setback, an emboldened military embarked upon a course that brought serious embarrassment and disgrace to the country. The overthrow in October 1999 of a legally constituted, democratically elected popular government was a direct consequence of the Kargil episode — once again the outcome of our policy of confronting India.

The multiple wars and skirmishes with India (futile at best) and the ensuing instability and insecurity in the region have adversely impacted on the internal political dynamics of Pakistan. The imbalance of a powerful military and a fragile democracy has seriously undermined the political process and impaired the healthy growth of civil institutions. The pursuit of highly ambitious and inherently unrealistic policies of ‘strategic depth’ and ‘coercive diplomacy’ have overstretched our limited resources and subjected our foreign relations to avoidable stresses.

A policy of confrontation with India — and its close cousins militancy and coup d’états — contains within itself the seeds of our destruction and must be avoided like the plague. It has become a millstone around our neck.

The real threat to Pakistan comes not from India, but from militant extremism. The second biggest source of instability emanates, also not from India, but from the widespread poverty and the low levels of human development that characterise our society. We need to divert the enormous time and resources that we continue to invest in our confrontation with India towards fighting militancy and getting rid of the all-pervasive poverty, ignorance and disease.

Pakistan’s history and its present precarious condition demand a serious and honest appraisal of its traditional India policy with the objective of establishing a close, cooperative and tension-free relationship. Realpolitik and sound common sense dictate that Pakistan and India should live in peace and friendship.

The proposed change in our India policy is not tantamount to an acceptance of India’s hegemony. On the contrary, an economically vibrant, politically stable, socially cohesive nuclear Pakistan with 170 million economically empowered, healthy and educated citizens should be able to exude enough confidence and maturity to deter any entity contemplating domination.
 
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Good article. With sane mature minds like this on both sides of the border, hopefully common citizens in both countries can look forward to peace and prosperity - cooperation and brotherhood then will be sure to follow, once this paradigm shift in basic midset takes place.

Cheers, Doc
 
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well an embarrassing article by a man who knows too little.....


now my reasons why WE SHOULD NOT BE FRIENDS are simple....in our quest to compete india we always help "improve ourselves" the minute the friendly atmosphere started with india in 2002 or somwhere around that time...things just screwed up in pakistan because we lost our aim that was to "COMPETE" with india in economy,military sciences everything!!!

secondly what did we get in return blame...accusations & sidelining from india...

to compete with india is healthy for our existence....
 
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to compete with india is healthy for our existence....

There are two types of competition.

1. competition which improve hater for otherside, to destroy otherside, so we can go up.
2. Competition which mature, and improve self respect, if this yr they are forward then us, then will go forward handshake & try next yr to beat you, if i won then i will calibrate and welcome otherside in my celebration.

Which competition is better? Indian and pakistan are two sons of single nation, which might not be identical, might not identical in religion, might not identical in practicing, might not identical in thinking, might don't have same goals, but this will remain as fact.. we belong to same region.. and we share common ancestors. And we will always compete try each other or even if we don't compare other surely will.
 
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Do you guys think ever in our lifetimes we will see us becoming one nation again like East and West Germany?

Dont dismiss this fantasy outright ..... people said the same about the Berlin wall till it happened :)

Then we can both enjoy Kashmir ..... and I can ride my Bullet into the beautiful rugged mountains and valleys of *** too (wistful dreamer here!).

Cheers, Doc
 
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Why is "Pee O Kay" aterixed out guys? Have I typed a taboo word here?

Cheers, Doc
 
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People like Iqbal Ahmed should realize before creating such love songs that we are talking about a country that was responsible for cutting your arm and even to this date is responsible for militancy and terrorism in your country, who has majority of its army placed at your boarder and who does not skip a single chance where it can hurt Pakistan's image or perhaps get it labbled as a failed state or a terrorist state.
I dont understand what in the hell do these guys smoke when coming out with such statements or perhaps they are too big of a fan of Katrina Kaif and want her to be in Pakistan irrespective of what the cost is going to be. Such a dissappointment, thanks we still have saner heads and in majority who do not think in this fashion.
 
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People like Iqbal Ahmed should realize before creating such love songs that we are talking about a country that was responsible for cutting your arm and even to this date is responsible for militancy and terrorism in your country, who has majority of its army placed at your boarder and who does not skip a single chance where it can hurt Pakistan's image or perhaps get it labbled as a failed state or a terrorist state.
I dont understand what in the hell do these guys smoke when coming out with such statements or perhaps they are too big of a fan of Katrina Kaif and want her to be in Pakistan irrespective of what the cost is going to be. Such a dissappointment, thanks we still have saner heads and in majority who do not think in this fashion.


we seriously need to ask ourselves what do we want?
we, you and me want,
economic prosperity for our people
a stable and good environment for our future generation
we certainly want a prosperous and stable kashmir.


so question is how do we achieve that, we have to take steps, baby steps. we gotta try. we have to.....

we know there is deep mistrust between us. i have this hunch that this time something concrete will come out of the talk because this time two democratic governments are talking and both PMs emphasis is on economy unlike last time( Indian pm from hindu hardliner party and other was a military dictator)
 
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well an embarrassing article by a man who knows too little.....


now my reasons why WE SHOULD NOT BE FRIENDS are simple....in our quest to compete india we always help "improve ourselves" the minute the friendly atmosphere started with india in 2002 or somwhere around that time...things just screwed up in pakistan because we lost our aim that was to "COMPETE" with india in economy,military sciences everything!!!

secondly what did we get in return blame...accusations & sidelining from india...

to compete with india is healthy for our existence....

that's actually a good point...but haven't you realized already that if Pakistan saves the billions it spends in arming up due to it's hostility with India...you'd have a very strong economy.
ditto for us....I mean both the countries have a lot of poverty.
 
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we are so stuck-up in our past anamosities, that a comment by anyone to start thinking "out-of-the-box" gets derided by majority of the people on both sides because it is so difficult to step out of one's "comfort zone".

all it really requires for both "Leaders" of our countries to sit in a room for a half/day without their "baboos" and thrash out their issues - set priorities so that the establishments of both countries then can meet to thrash-out the details. whenever there is a "deadlock" the "Leaders" step-in to resolve the issues.

It has got to start from the Top! if we expect the "baboos" on both sides of the border to settle all the problems, then we can forget it because they are trained not to facilitate but to derail (baboos have their own agendas to keep).

remember the "Leaders" of our countries have been mandated by the people to be their representatives and whatever they decide should be acceptable to the 1.3 billion people on both sides of the border!
 
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As an outside I have managed to see the nastiness of your collective past here on this forum.

The bitterness between both sides is so common it percolates into and denigrates almost every topic. The most discussing aspect is that most of you will grow into the guiding generation for both countries.

Shun the Past, why should you. I have not seen too much of it here so I doubt you really want to change. Both nations should keep the past, keep poking each other till one gets annoyed enough that another little expensive war starts again. Neither nation can afford it but you all seem keen to have one.

Take a look at Northern Ireland; it is a micro version of the current Pakistan Indian behaviour.

YES, Shun The Past!
It is about time to shun the past.

Nice comment here:
The real threat to Pakistan comes not from India, but from militant extremism. The second biggest source of instability emanates, also not from India, but from the widespread poverty and the low levels of human development that characterise our society. We need to divert the enormous time and resources that we continue to invest in our confrontation with India towards fighting militancy and getting rid of the all-pervasive poverty, ignorance and disease.

Both nations have that militant extremism embedded and both have poverty. Yes the list goes on.

I said once that friendly and cooperative relations between India and Pakistan would create a very powerful economic force in the region. Think about it. Pakistan and India need each other to progress, that does not mean they must rejoin but the must coexist with mutual respect.

Shun the past.


But its all just pie in sky stuff, keep bating each other, it is simpler than the option.
 
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Do you guys think ever in our lifetimes we will see us becoming one nation again like East and West Germany?

NO - nor is there any need or desire for it.

The analogy itself is flawed. East and West Germany were the result of a division by external powers in the wake of a military victory over Nazi Germany.

South Asia on the other hand has hardly even been a united nation, except through the use of military might by emperors, Kings and colonizers.

The creation of Pakistan too was the result of a popular movement led by a political party, in which the people of the provinces comprising Pakistan today chose to be part of an independent nation - Pakistan was not created out of a bifurcation of a nation by an external power against the wishes of its people, as in Germany.

Then we can both enjoy Kashmir ..... and I can ride my Bullet into the beautiful rugged mountains and valleys of *** too (wistful dreamer here!).

Cheers, Doc
Kashmir can be enjoyed by both by resolving the dispute in accordance with the wishes of the people. If you wish for peace, starting with giving the Kashmiri people their due rights and voice in settling the dispute with Pakistan would be a good step - you can then ride your Bullet to Kashmir as much as you want.

As for unification, 'dreamers' such as yourself only perpetuate the suspicion that all that rhetoric of 'accepting Pakistan' aside, India has not yet done exactly that.

Regional success does not have to be achieved through unification alone - resolution of disputes, and working towards economic cooperation and shared interests in the region, perhaps under the aegis of SAARC, are better ways of working towards regional success that do not impinge upon the sovereignty and independence of other nations.
 
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that's actually a good point...but haven't you realized already that if Pakistan saves the billions it spends in arming up due to it's hostility with India...you'd have a very strong economy.
ditto for us....I mean both the countries have a lot of poverty.

Yes, but to do that you need to have 'bilateral talks and cooperation', and settled boundaries and a lack of suspicion and distrust.

If you suspect your neighbor is a thief who covets your possessions and land, and in fact refuses to accept that it is your land, will you actually give up your weapons?

The talk about 'ohh look at how much progress Pakistan could have made if it gave up its weapons' is just that - talk. At the end of the day there is a reason why Pakistan spends money on its military, and that reason is India, and unless India decides to resolve disputes, one cannot expect unilateral disarmament from Pakistan.

The recent article in Dawn detailing some of the evidence in the dossier given to India by PM Gillani, indicating India's complicity in supporting terrorists in Baluchistan, is a good example of why such advice to Pakistan, of unilateral disarmament, is hogwash.

Without bilateral cooperation there can be no movement.
 
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NO - nor is there any need or desire for it.

The analogy itself is flawed. East and West Germany were the result of a division by external powers in the wake of a military victory over Nazi Germany.

South Asia on the other hand has hardly even been a united nation, except through the use of military might by emperors, Kings and colonizers.
I agree with this. But the concept of a nation-state is quite new. There was no Italy or Germany or for that matter, US of A , if you go back 400 years. Why there is a popular sentiment against partition in general is that the indian colony as a whole was united in ousting the British. Heck, there was big time opposition to partition of Bengal early in the beginning of this century. Pakistan was a result of an agreement. This agreement was quite ambiguous in the sense that the demand for a seperate nation was made only during the end of the freedom struggle. Till then it was only demand for an autonomous state within the realm of the erstwhile Indian Colony. this has resulted in all this confusion over real estate. I am kinda irritated to hear this again and again that there was no united India before the British.. understand that nationalism was realized quite late in the South Asian region, even later than the south american colonies.

The creation of Pakistan too was the result of a popular movement led by a political party, in which the people of the provinces comprising Pakistan today chose to be part of an independent nation - Pakistan was not created out of a bifurcation of a nation by an external power against the wishes of its people, as in Germany.

Kashmir can be enjoyed by both by resolving the dispute in accordance with the wishes of the people. If you wish for peace, starting with giving the Kashmiri people their due rights and voice in settling the dispute with Pakistan would be a good step - you can then ride your Bullet to Kashmir as much as you want.
Azad Kashmir, is still seen as part of Pakistan and not as an independant nation.

As for unification, 'dreamers' such as yourself only perpetuate the suspicion that all that rhetoric of 'accepting Pakistan' aside, India has not yet done exactly that.

Regional success does not have to be achieved through unification alone - resolution of disputes, and working towards economic cooperation and shared interests in the region, perhaps under the aegis of SAARC, are better ways of working towards regional success that do not impinge upon the sovereignty and independence of other nations.

I concur with this part.
 
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The recent article in Dawn detailing some of the evidence in the dossier given to India by PM Gillani, indicating India's complicity in supporting terrorists in Baluchistan, is a good example of why such advice to Pakistan, of unilateral disarmament, is hogwash.

Without bilateral cooperation there can be no movement.

From the Dawn article:
DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Proof of RAW involvement in terror acts given to India
A substantial part of the shared material deals with the Balochistan insurgency and Indian linkages with the insurgents, particularly Bramdagh Bugti, Burhan and Sher Khan.

From Zeenews
Baluchs in US seek Indian help to end Pak`s "state terror"

Baluchs in US seek Indian help to end Pak's "state terror"
Updated on Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 17:51 IST
Washington: A Baluchi group based in the US on Wednesday appealed to India to help them end the "illegal occupation" and "state terrorism" perpetuated by Pakistan in Baluchistan.

Welcoming the joint statement released after a meeting between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pakistani counterpart Yusuf Raza Gilani last week on the sidelines of the NAM summit in Egypt, the 'American Friends of Baluchistan' said, "This text gives a rare opportunity to New Delhi to fulfil its international obligations to the long suffering people of Baluchistan."

AFB leaders Rasheed Baluch and Mohammed Ali Baluch said, "now is the chance for India to put Pakistan on the mat" as the threat in Baluchistan comes from Pakistan's illegal occupation of their homeland.

They also asked New Delhi not to tie down Baluchistan with Pakistan support of jihadi terror in Kashmir. "Kashmir is an integral part of India and one of India's main founding fathers, Jawaharlal Nehru, was a blue-blooded Kashmiri," the two AFB leaders said.

In contrast, Baluchistan was never a part of Pakistan but forcibly occupied by Pakistan. "The Baluch are secular people who are fighting for their national survival and regaining their statehood.

"It is India's duty to openly support the Baluch liberation movement and prevailing upon Islamabad to end its state terrorism in occupied Baluchistan," the two AFB leaders said.

Bureau Report


Substance yet ...:eek:
 
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