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Time Plays Against India in Rafale MMRCA Program

DrSomnath999

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PARIS --- India’s prevarication on the long-delayed contract to buy 18 Rafale fighters and assemble 108 more could end up seriously disrupting its air force modernization plans, as Egypt’s order for 24 aircraft, and a possible order for 36 more by Qatar, will absorb available production and push back deliveries to India.

It is already too late for the 18 French-made aircraft that the Indian Air Force urgently needs to be delivered beginning in 2018, as originally planned, and additional export orders could delay them into the next decade.

France has stretched out its own deliveries to reduce annual payments, and the current Rafale production rate at Dassault Aviation’s Bordeaux-Mérignac plant is of 11 aircraft per year -- the minimum rate the company says is economically feasible.

Deliveries to France this year include 7 two-seat nuclear strike variants for the French air force and 4 Rafale M carrier variants for the navy, none of which can be exported, initial deliveries to Egypt will be made using aircraft already in service with the French air force, and which will have to be replaced later.

Delivery of new aircraft to Egypt is not slated to begin before 2018, as ramping up production requires about three years, as the Rafale supply chain, comprising about 500 companies accustomed to being drip-fed orders at the current minimum rate, needs time to ramp up and to order and receive long-lead items.

“Egypt wants its aircraft quickly, and we have been authorized to take some aircraft now being built for France,” Dassault Chief Executive Eric Trappier said in a Feb 13 interview with RTL radio. Dassault Aviation did not return telephone calls seeking clarification.

Trappier added that “Qatar and other neighboring countries are also interested,” but did not name them. Bahrain, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates have been previously cited as possible buyers of Rafale.

France is to receive 26 more Rafales by 2019, and a Qatari order for 36 Rafales would take up another three or four years of production, leaving few free delivery slots before 2020 at the earliest.

Indian Air Force hobbled by obsolescence

Meanwhile, even as it drags its feet on the Rafale contract, the combat strength of the Indian air force is evaporating because it must retire its obsolete fighters much faster than they can be replaced.

The Indian Air Force has an authorized strength of 42 fighter squadrons, each with 18 aircraft. However, by last year its fighter strength had dropped to only 25 squadrons -- 14 of them equipped with elderly MiG-21s and MiG-27s -- according to a late December report by the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence.

The Committee’s report “expressed concern over the dwindling number of fighter squadrons in the Indian Air Force….The revelation is astonishing, and the committee feels that the paradox in the required and sanctioned strength needs to be rectified at the earliest,” The Hindu reported Dec. 29.

Ironically, it is to avoid just such a fighter shortfall that India launched the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition in 2007, after earlier efforts to procure a new fighter failed. Rafale was declared winner in January 2012, but contract negotiations have dragged on since.

“India is a country that takes its time…what is taking time here is setting up an industrial partnership that will ultimately allow India to produce all the parts” for the complete aircraft, Dassault’s Trappier said.

In a nutshell, India wants Dassault to provide a warranty for the aircraft assembled ad later produced in India by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL).This would have the French firm taking on contractual responsibility for HAL’s production, over which it however has no control.

Dassault, which had originally selected privately-owned Reliance Industries as its partner for the program, is steadfast in its refusal to provide such a guarantee, which according to a senior company official would be “a direct route to bankruptcy.”

“Dassault will not be responsible for the whole contract [because] it’s a co-management arrangement,” French defense procurement chief Laurent Collet-Billon told reporters here Feb. 9, adding that the company had the government’s full backing in this dispute.

He jokingly added that having Dassault guarantee HAL’s work “cannot be a problem, because it was not included in the original RFP” and so cannot be added retrospectively.

Faced with persistent– but so far baseless – allegations of corruption in past defense deals, India in recent years enacted inflexible defense procurement procedures and regulations that allow no latitude in how it manages the MMRCA project.

Having thus painted itself into a corner, India must find a face-saving solution that will allow it to sign the contract without appearing to back down on its warranty demands. As the forthcoming visit to Paris by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in April provides an ideal occasion for signing, India has less than two months to find a way out.

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Time Plays Against India in Rafale MMRCA Program
 
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I just can't get it what is the reason behind this delay?share of technology of price?wasn't the share of technology already discussed prior to selecting rafale?
 
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Their production rate is 11 Rafales every year?

That needs to satisfy the demand of Egypt, Qatar, India, and most importantly, France itself. And possibly Bahrain, Kuwait and UAE too.

Even if they ramp up production, that's going to be delay after delay.
 
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The way Russians transferred the technology to India, the western nations are not going to do so easily. Perhaps India wants to develop a fusion of Rafale and SU_MKI in Tejas variation other than that this delay actually defeats the purpose. I still feel India should focus on su-mki and pak-fa.
 
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Is this news publisher on Dassault's payroll!!!!!(Could see rafale international ads in their website), do they think we are that stupid and we dont know .I would like to debunk certain observations made here.

1. First the article says deliveries to Egypt and UAE will push back deliveries to India, Total BS ,things go by the RFP ,not depending upon the order book of Dassault. The RFP will have tentative delivery time schedule, batch by batch, if the conclusion of the contract takes time then adjustments to this schedule can be made with the approval of DAC provided found acceptable by it.
If Dassault is not able to meet the schedules or to provide a convincing alternative acceptable to the DAC then the tender will be cancelled and reopened again, if they get the order the French have to expand their capacity to deliver, as simple as that. Dassault has not officially said that it cannot deliver timely because of the new order books but only the author says that.

2.The observations made on parliamentary committee report is true, but the 18 aircraft which will be delivered in the 2018-19 time frame will not significantly arrest the dwindling numbers.Improving the SU-30MKI support infrastructure could do a better job to immediately arrest the decline.
 
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Egypt deal or any other nation procuring rafale from now onwards can delay the delivery of rafale to india

as max production capacity of dassault is 11 /year so egypt deal would keep their production lines busy

so they can wait for indian order but we cannot as time is running out for us

we have to act fast either this way or that way

CHEERS


Their production rate is 11 Rafales every year?

That needs to satisfy the demand of Egypt, Qatar, India, and most importantly, France itself. And possibly Bahrain, Kuwait and UAE too.

Even if they ramp up production, that's going to be delay after delay.


No.



and the current Rafale production rate at Dassault Aviation’s Bordeaux-Mérignac plant is of 11 aircraft per year -- the minimum rate the company says is economically feasible.
 
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High time we wrap up the deal by canceling it . Buy 40-50 off the shelves from France for our Nuclear Force and deep strike mission . Once we get the aircraft we can open it and see that the hell is inside . (on lighter note)

Order for Super Sukoi with full upgrades or Su 34 which has new airframe designed for tactical bombing at low speed. Specially made for deep strike mission . Buy more mig 29 UPG . Invest rest of the money on upgrading Sukoi into Super Sukoi or But more MKI and arrest the depleting fleet . . . It's not 1970s to but 200-250 fighters from outside . Cleaver nation will invest and create a new Fighter for its own requirements. We are talking about 22-24 billion excluding mid time upgrades and training facilities . It will be a white elephant for India . Waste of money .When we already have AMCA and FGFA and Mk2 going on .


BUY SU34/MIG 29 UPG / MKI/ SUPER /SU35 - To meet the depleting force. Don't give crap about morons saying Don't put all eggs in one basket ... Because we wont have any basket in first place to your egg or whatever if we retire flying coffins and grandad Mig 27
 
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PARIS --- India’s prevarication on the long-delayed contract to buy 18 Rafale fighters and assemble 108 more could end up seriously disrupting its air force modernization plans, as Egypt’s order for 24 aircraft, and a possible order for 36 more by Qatar, will absorb available production and push back deliveries to India.

It is already too late for the 18 French-made aircraft that the Indian Air Force urgently needs to be delivered beginning in 2018, as originally planned, and additional export orders could delay them into the next decade.

France has stretched out its own deliveries to reduce annual payments, and the current Rafale production rate at Dassault Aviation’s Bordeaux-Mérignac plant is of 11 aircraft per year -- the minimum rate the company says is economically feasible.

Deliveries to France this year include 7 two-seat nuclear strike variants for the French air force and 4 Rafale M carrier variants for the navy, none of which can be exported, initial deliveries to Egypt will be made using aircraft already in service with the French air force, and which will have to be replaced later.

Delivery of new aircraft to Egypt is not slated to begin before 2018, as ramping up production requires about three years, as the Rafale supply chain, comprising about 500 companies accustomed to being drip-fed orders at the current minimum rate, needs time to ramp up and to order and receive long-lead items.

“Egypt wants its aircraft quickly, and we have been authorized to take some aircraft now being built for France,” Dassault Chief Executive Eric Trappier said in a Feb 13 interview with RTL radio. Dassault Aviation did not return telephone calls seeking clarification.

Trappier added that “Qatar and other neighboring countries are also interested,” but did not name them. Bahrain, Kuwait and the United Arab Emirates have been previously cited as possible buyers of Rafale.

France is to receive 26 more Rafales by 2019, and a Qatari order for 36 Rafales would take up another three or four years of production, leaving few free delivery slots before 2020 at the earliest.

Indian Air Force hobbled by obsolescence

Meanwhile, even as it drags its feet on the Rafale contract, the combat strength of the Indian air force is evaporating because it must retire its obsolete fighters much faster than they can be replaced.

The Indian Air Force has an authorized strength of 42 fighter squadrons, each with 18 aircraft. However, by last year its fighter strength had dropped to only 25 squadrons -- 14 of them equipped with elderly MiG-21s and MiG-27s -- according to a late December report by the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence.

The Committee’s report “expressed concern over the dwindling number of fighter squadrons in the Indian Air Force….The revelation is astonishing, and the committee feels that the paradox in the required and sanctioned strength needs to be rectified at the earliest,” The Hindu reported Dec. 29.

Ironically, it is to avoid just such a fighter shortfall that India launched the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition in 2007, after earlier efforts to procure a new fighter failed. Rafale was declared winner in January 2012, but contract negotiations have dragged on since.

“India is a country that takes its time…what is taking time here is setting up an industrial partnership that will ultimately allow India to produce all the parts” for the complete aircraft, Dassault’s Trappier said.

In a nutshell, India wants Dassault to provide a warranty for the aircraft assembled ad later produced in India by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL).This would have the French firm taking on contractual responsibility for HAL’s production, over which it however has no control.

Dassault, which had originally selected privately-owned Reliance Industries as its partner for the program, is steadfast in its refusal to provide such a guarantee, which according to a senior company official would be “a direct route to bankruptcy.”

“Dassault will not be responsible for the whole contract [because] it’s a co-management arrangement,” French defense procurement chief Laurent Collet-Billon told reporters here Feb. 9, adding that the company had the government’s full backing in this dispute.

He jokingly added that having Dassault guarantee HAL’s work “cannot be a problem, because it was not included in the original RFP” and so cannot be added retrospectively.

Faced with persistent– but so far baseless – allegations of corruption in past defense deals, India in recent years enacted inflexible defense procurement procedures and regulations that allow no latitude in how it manages the MMRCA project.

Having thus painted itself into a corner, India must find a face-saving solution that will allow it to sign the contract without appearing to back down on its warranty demands. As the forthcoming visit to Paris by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in April provides an ideal occasion for signing, India has less than two months to find a way out.

-ends-
Time Plays Against India in Rafale MMRCA Program
This is a misleading article. The 11/year is an artificially low production rate to keep the line open and thus can be expanded in time should the situation occur where UAE, Qatar and India have Rafale orders. Additionally as per the RFP the first Rafales would have to reach India within 36 months so there is absolutely no danger to India if others sign up, this is just a scare tactic.
 
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Egypt deal or any other nation procuring rafale from now onwards can delay the delivery of rafale to india

as max production capacity of dassault is 11 /year so egypt deal would keep their production lines busy

so they can wait for indian order but we cannot as time is running out for us

we have to act fast either this way or that way

CHEERS

As discussed countless times, we can simply go for alternates when a bigger MKI jet even with modernized AESA radar is cheaper than Rafale.

Unless the French agree to the terms in contract, we are going to get cheated.
 
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the title should have been
Time Plays Against dassault rafale In MMRCA Program
what do you guys think :dance3::dance3::dance3::dance3:
 
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Their production rate is 11 Rafales every year?

That needs to satisfy the demand of Egypt, Qatar, India, and most importantly, France itself. And possibly Bahrain, Kuwait and UAE too.

Even if they ramp up production, that's going to be delay after delay.

The production rate of 11 per year is being kept to sustain the line the french can increase the rate of production anytime they want & also the 1st rafaels will reach us 36 months after signing the deal so the french will get plenty of time
 
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The production rate of 11 per year is being kept to sustain the line the french can increase the rate of production anytime they want & also the 1st rafaels will reach us 36 months after signing the deal so the french will get plenty of time

They just clinched the deal with Egypt.

Basically, the French will use this as a pressure tactic.

Don't know what Parikkar has in mind though. He MUST decide before March end about what is to be done with the deal.
 
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They just clinched the deal with Egypt.

Basically, the French will use this as a pressure tactic.

Don't know what Parikkar has in mind though. He MUST decide before March end about what is to be done with the deal.

Yep we need those jets today
 
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I just can't get it what is the reason behind this delay?share of technology of price?wasn't the share of technology already discussed prior to selecting rafale?

Dassault deviating from the tender requirements, for more own benefits. The ToT and offset proposal is ok and already cleared by MoD, but since the end of 2012, they play a game and try to get more out of the deal for them.
 
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