Time for 'talks' is OVER | COAS tells Nawaz Sharif.

[Spring Onion]

lol...much of democracy pakistan is....,..
what a puppet govt. NS has....

@Aeronaut

can we do away with some trash man.

 

[Amaa'n]

Basically COASt was told something he did not want to hear, no they were not the orders from US but this decision had been made in the light of national security, military had same stance its talks were started, and they told civil govt that we know talks will fail but you take your time but now time is up, with Afghan game coming to its end.... So yes, operation was coming and MS saw it happening

 

[Ahmed Goundal]

Army ko talban k against hard action lena chahiye

 

[Jango]

Keep it on-topic folks,,,any more off topic and senseless posts and it will be a straight ban. Keep the thread serious.

This is a major issue in the current history of Pakistan, let's not make a mockery out of it.

Now coming onto the topic, good to see Army finally tell Nawaz 'Clueless' Sharif what to do.

I was wondering that why are DGMO and CGS present in a normal internal security meeting! Now we all know why!

 

[saiyan0321]

Good. Very good. We did the right thing. We gave peace talks a shot, we tried contacting them, did the cease fire, heard what they had to say but they never stopped. They kept attacking the people and the army thus the only solution left on the table now is to kill them all. Yes its hard and yes it will take resources and back lash but right now we dont have any other way to do this.

Its either kill them or be killed. I agree with the COAS. Time to take the war to them.

 

[Al Bhatti]

You proved my point, you do not need democracy to be world economic giant. I care less about democracy as long as people have food shelter and cloth which millions of indians are deprived of even after having a supposedly better governance system.

Exactly what i say repeatedly. Type of government doesn't matter. What is measured is how the citizens get their basic rights from the government be it Democratic, totalitarian, dictatorship, monarchy, one party rule, two party rule or what ever other form.

“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.”
― Joseph Stalin

Many countries give the citizens the right to vote as per the constitution, but how many of those get their rights as per the very same constitution.

 

[livingdead]

Not arguing with the guy but the way message is delivered undermines civilian supremacy. I am not going off topic for saying this, Indian army never caused unwanted trouble because they were shown where they stand in pecking order.

 

[VCheng]

A serving general said the army chief would always pick the “institution over the constitution if push comes to shove,” adding: “As a society and a state, we have to avoid a context in which the army is pushed to do something it doesn’t want to.”

Of course. The "serving General" wants to violate his oath and the Constitution to prevent the Army from obeying its chain of command simply because he does not want to "do something it doesn't want to" - like obey the law. Of course.

Never mind that this makes him just a thug in a shiny uniform if he is so lawless.

 

[Amaa'n]

Of course. The "serving General" wants to violate his oath and the Constitution to prevent the Army from obeying its chain of command simply because he does not want to "do something it doesn't want to" - like obey the law. Of course.

Never mind that this makes him just a thug in a shiny uniform if he is so lawless.

basically he was talking in context that if Current govt will not allow them to go after the murderers of 50,000 Pakistani's then they are willing to break the constitution and stand against the decisions of Govt and Launch an Offensive in NW--- Protecting the Sovereignty and People of this Country is something they also swore too ,,,,
Let me remid you when ZAb was on his killing spree and Police and other LEAs were following him and killing their own people - it was the military that took the first stand and then other PSP members grew some balls and took the stand-----so sometime breaking constitution is right.....

 

[PWFI]

lol...much of democracy pakistan is....,..
what a puppet govt. NS has....

we don't give a "fukc" to the democracy, unlike world biggest democracy where terrorists become pm of the nation
Please avoid one line comment like your fellow keyboard warriors.

 

[RabzonKhan]

That sounds more credible.



NW air raids conducted with govt’s approval, says military
36 mins ago BY NEWS DESK

Air strikes in North Waziristan Agency after Government's approval: Military sources
ISLAMABAD- The aerial strikes in North Waziristan Agency on Wednesday were carried out after approval of the political government in
response to terrorists act of last few weeks in FATA, KPK and Karachi in which several civilians and military personnel embraced martyrdom, military sources said today.
Reacting to a news story that appeared in a section of the national media, the sources categorically rejected the impression that the strikes were carried out without approval of the civilian government.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

basically he was talking in context that if Current govt will not allow them to go after the murderers of 50,000 Pakistani's then they are willing to break the constitution and stand against the decisions of Govt and Launch an Offensive in NW--- Protecting the Sovereignty and People of this Country is something they also swore too ,,,,
Let me remid you when ZAb was on his killing spree and Police and other LEAs were following him and killing their own people - it was the military that took the first stand and then other PSP members grew some balls and took the stand-----so sometime breaking constitution is right.....

A state has to secure the lives of the next 50,000 people by a coherent and effective strategy.

50,000 "died" - Can you afford another 50K to have the same fate?

Military operations are not the right solution.

I guess we will only know the inside story when we get all the commission details of the fauj.

The cards will reveal.

"Protecting the Sovereignty and People of this Country is something they also swore too ,,,,"

Where was this logic after countless drone victims, Salala incident, OBL raid etc Ohhh protect the people. Yeah sell them over boys!!!! Unkale Mushy....
I guess I don't wanna retire poor, do I?

 

[iPhone]

This has nothing to with the army meddling in the civilian govt affairs or overruling them. If the army really wanted it their way, why not just overthrow the civilian govt altogether make their own defense policy?

For whatever reasons, PML-N has made it it's policy to not publically announce any military operation against the talibs. Maybe they fear the talib backlash or they don't wanna bump heads with the talib supporters.

Whichever the case, this has put the army in a tight corner. They're still deployed in the FATA areas, still have to go out and conduct routine patrols and that's when the ttp strikes, with IEDs and ambushes. So, what do you do then? Sit quietly and continue to die?

Back in March when ttp announced a ceasefire, PML-n govt honored it but also gave authorization to the army to attack in retaliation and self defense.

So, now what has ttp done in the past few weeks? More attacks on the army, a deadly IED ambush a week ago. That warranted a retaliatory action from the army.

I personally think both the army and the civilian govt are on the same page. Govt won't publically announce their backing for the operation but won't interfere with th operation either. Nature of the beast.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

This has nothing to with the army meddling in the civilian govt affairs or overruling them. If the army really wanted it their way, why not just overthrow the civilian govt altogether make their own defense policy?

For whatever reasons, PML-N has made it it's policy to not publically announce any military operation against the talibs. Maybe they fear the talib backlash or they don't wanna bump heads with the talib supporters.

Whichever the case, this has put the army in a tight corner. They're still deployed in the FATA areas, still have to go out and conduct routine patrols and that's when the ttp strikes, with IEDs and ambushes. So, what do you do then? Sit quietly and continue to die?

Back in March when ttp announced a ceasefire, PML-n govt honored it but also gave authorization to the army to attack in retaliation and self defense.

So, now what has ttp done in the past few weeks? More attacks on the army, a deadly IED ambush a week ago. That warranted a retaliatory action from the army.

I personally think both the army and the civilian govt are on the same page. Govt won't publically announce their backing for the operation but won't interfere with th operation either. Nature or the beast.

"Back in March when ttp announced a ceasefire, PML-n govt honored it but also gave authorization to the army to attack in retaliation and self defense.

So, now what has ttp done in the past few weeks? More attacks on the army, a deadly IED ambush a week ago. That warranted a retaliatory action from the army."

How about this?

You want to end this confusion? You want to rally people against TTP? You think military solution is the optimal solution? You think that the dumb fool civilians are not recognizing the real enemy?

How about this commission laden jernails -

How about you give unprecedented and complete access to the journalists in FATA.

I mean not your pupies. The real journalists. They will help form a dominant public opinion.

Let use see the facts. Let us see the facts from the neutral eye.

Will that happen?

Jernails - You will pay. We all die. God will give you some real estate and commissions too. Don't worry!

 

[xyxmt]

View attachment 32296


At Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s palatial offices in Islamabad this week, the army chief sat down to deliver the head of government a message he did not want to hear: The time for talks with the troublesome Pakistani Taliban was over. Sharif came to power a year ago promising to find a peaceful settlement with the Islamist militant group, but as round after round of talks failed, the powerful armed forces favoured a military solution.

Their patience finally ran out and, late on Tuesday afternoon, during a tense meeting, the army effectively declared it would override a crucial plank of the government’s strategy and take matters into its own hands.
“The army chief and other military officers in the room were clear on the military’s policy: the last man, the last bullet,” a government insider with first-hand knowledge of the meeting told a foreign news agency.

Asked to sum up the message General Raheel Sharif wanted to convey at the gathering, he added: “The time for talk is over.” The next day, Pakistani forces launched rare air strikes against militants holed up in the remote, lawless tribal belt near the Afghan border. It is not clear whether Sharif authorized the operation. On Thursday, they backed that up with the first major ground offensive against the Taliban there, undermining Sharif’s year-long attempt to end a bloody insurgency across his country through peaceful means.

Disagreement over the militant threat is the latest row to flare up between the government and military, and relations between the two branches of power are at their lowest ebb for years, according to government officials.

The government did say talks with the Taliban would go on.

“We will talk with those who are ready for it and the (military) operation is being launched against those who are not ready to come to the negotiating table,” spokesman Pervez Rashid told local media on Thursday. But the operations put the military, which has a long record of intervening in civilian rule through plots and coups, firmly back at the centre of Pakistan’s security policy. The balance of power is shifting at a time when foreign troops are preparing to withdraw from Afghanistan, and arch-rival India has just elected a Hindu nationalist leader promising to be more assertive on the international stage. “This is the clearest signal yet that the army will dictate its terms now,” a member of Sharif’s cabinet said.

TALIBAN ON THE OFFENSIVE

The Pakistani Taliban, as distinct from the Afghan Taliban which is actively targeting NATO forces in Afghanistan, is believed to be behind attacks on Pakistani soldiers and civilians that have killed thousands in recent years. The Pakistan army has distinguished between “good” Taliban like the feared Haqqani network – who do not attack Pakistani security forces but fight in Afghanistan – and “bad” Taliban, indigenous Pakistani militants who are seeking to create an Islamic state.

While Pakistan’s military wants to go after the “bad” Taliban, it has, despite pressure from Washington, largely avoided taking on groups who launch attacks against coalition forces in Afghanistan from Pakistan’s North Waziristan region. Prompting the latest intervention, the Pakistani Taliban have become increasingly bold, striking the army in tribal areas including a recent battle in which an army major died. Earlier this month, nine soldiers were killed in an explosion near the Afghan border.

“We will avenge the blood of every last soldier. Talks or no talks, the army will retaliate,” said one military official, who, like most others interviewed for this article, spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the subject. The army has ruled Pakistan for more than half of its history. Sharif himself was toppled by the army in 1999 during his previous tenure as prime minister. But, humiliated after a secret 2011 U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden on Pakistani soil, the army stood back from politics and supported last year’s first democratic transition of power which brought Sharif back to office. Sharif manoeuvred carefully, hand picking a new army chief and trying to forge a partnership with the military in the early days of his tenure, but the overtures had little lasting impact.

TRADE, DIPLOMACY

There are other signs of civil-military discord. Sharif came to power promising to rebuild relations with India, but has been under pressure to toughen his stance from hardliners at home, particularly within the army. The nuclear-armed neighbours have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947, two of them over the still-disputed Himalayan territory of Kashmir.Sharif’s policies towards India have been heavily scrutinized; some in the army justify its hefty budget by pointing to – and, critics say, playing up – the potential threat from India.

And despite signs the military has become more amenable to overtures from its old foe than in the past, a trade deal pushed by the prime minister and aimed at improving ties with India was cancelled at the last minute after pressure from the army, top government officials said. Sharif now faces a dilemma over whether to accept an invitation by Indian Prime Minister-designate Narendra Modi to attend his inauguration next week.

The army is also bitter about the trial of former military ruler Pervez Musharraf, who ousted Sharif from power in 1999 and was arrested after he returned to Pakistan to take part in last year’s election. Ties with Afghanistan have never been easy, but some officials believe the army wants to torpedo the government’s relationship with a future Kabul administration, risking deterioration in regional security as NATO troops prepare to leave this year. Generals have jealously guarded the right to dictate policy on Afghanistan, seeing friendly guerrilla groups as “assets” to blunt the influence of India there.

TENSIONS COME TO SURFACE

Though simmering under the surface, tensions between the government and the army spilled into the open last month when a popular journalist was shot by unknown gunmen, and his channel, Geo News, blamed the army’s powerful spy agency, the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).

Public criticism of the shadowy ISI is almost unheard of in Pakistan. In a rare public response, the army demanded that Geo News, the country’s most-watched news channel, be shut down. The government’s media regulator has since resisted the army’s demands to cancel the channel’s license, which the military sees as a direct sign of defiance. “Everyone was looking out to see how the government would treat the army in this crisis — as a friend or foe?” said a senior military official. “But the government allowed this to become a free-for-all, army-hunting season.”

For Sharif, buckling under military pressure is a major risk. “This is not about one TV channel but about freedom of expression and about living in a democracy,” Rashid said. “We should live and let live.” But despite putting on a brave front, officials say the government is feeling under siege. “Never in the last year has the government felt weaker or more vulnerable,” one of Sharif’s key economic advisers said. “Now every time we have to take a major decision, on India, on Afghanistan, we will have to think ‘How will the army react?’”

A serving general said the army chief would always pick the “institution over the constitution if push comes to shove,” adding: “As a society and a state, we have to avoid a context in which the army is pushed to do something it doesn’t want to.”

‘Time for talks is over’, COAS Sharif’s message to PM Sharif: report | Pakistan Today

It works for the benefits of Nawaz Sharif.