Time for peace?

[mike2000 is back]

Neither India nor Pakistan is going to give out an inch of land. Let the status quo remain and make LOC as the Border, both our countries can co-exist in a peaceful manner. Not surrounded by any American, Chinese or Russian arms and ammunition.

Both countries can prosper together with entire South Asia, we can throw the western influence over us.

South Asia could become next ASEAN block.

That's a good dream, but it's unrealistic to be honest.

It is indeed and Pakistan is classic example of misuse of religion. The ruling elite profiteer from religion. The elite live a very secular, elevated and segregated life in their gated communties. Their children study abroad in the West. They dance and flirt abroad. This elite does absolutely nothing for the masses. The masses have no accesss to justice, health or proper housing. They live a wretched life where death is all too often a release from suffering.

What does the elite provide. A empty promise of Islamic bliss. A corrupt state that screws the poor at every turn is made more digestible by being called "Islamic". By latching on to some tangible aspects of Islam it gives them excuse to rape the poor. The sad part is Islam is being maliged. What exactly is "Islamic" about the Pakistani state? Nothing. It is as fabrication as labelling a club where vice, corruption are rampant as abode of Islam.

However as you say this pattern cannot sustain itself for long. Increasing Chinese influence will introduce socialist and athiest ideas into society. I mean even a fool can see what citadel of Islam like Karachi looks and citadel of athiesim like Beijing looks

You raised a very good and important point. This is something I have noticed myself during my visits to many other developing countries in Africa, middle East etc. It's not just Pakistan that suffers from this(even though I agree Pakistan is a good case study to prove this).
Many African countries i have been to also suffer from this. You will see their leaders focusing on silly things like upholding African moral values/beliefs/customs etc but they are as corrupt and insensitive towards their people's plight more than anything. Some of them also use religion to their political benefit to blind the masses and divert their attention away from all their wrong doings. Religion has become the favourite weapon of these corrupt leaders.
It's actually an irony indeed, but that's what it is. When there is even a national catastrophy like a railway accident that kills hundreds, instead of the people to demand answers and accountability from their corrupt leaders for not building new railways lines/carriages or properly maintaing the railway tracks western powers built during the colonial era, the people(instigated by even their pastors/religious leaders) will instead turn to religion, and you will hear words like : "GOD GIVES GOD TAKES, IT WAS GOD'S WILL, EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON, GOD'S WAYS ARE NOT MANS WAY " etc etc.
This way the leaders in these poor destitute countries don't even feel pressured to do better. The people being naive , poor, uneducated, and religious/superstitious is the best thing these leaders could have asked for, so they wi So we can even say the people being too religious and superstitious actually helps these corrupt leaders. That's the irony of it all.
It's actually sad to be honest, but what can you do?

 

[Hindustani78]

That's a good dream, but it's unrealistic to be honest.

We Indians are aware how to make things realistic as we Indians live in real world. Real world will be more wonderful then being a cyber victim all the time. Honest people , keep thier words.

 

[ito]

Since Children, Indians are brainwashed that Pakistan is evil through curriculum, parents, government, movies, newspapers, books and TV media. Indians grow hating Pakistan. I am sure the same thing happens on the Pakistani side too. So peace is long long away.

 

[El Sidd]

Since Children, Indians are brainwashed that Pakistan is evil through curriculum, parents, government, movies, newspapers, books and TV media. Indians grow hating Pakistan. I am sure the same thing happens on the Pakistani side too. So peace is long long away.

Hard to believe but that's not true.

We are taught much much evil things about ourselves then about each other

 

[ito]

Hard to believe but that's not true.

We are taught much much evil things about ourselves then about each other

But that is the truth. You will find very few in India who have positive image about Pakistan. Now with live TVs the intensity of brainwashing has gone some notches up, with children brain washed 24X7. When I was a child the brainwashing was less intense. I cannot comment on Pakistani side, but this forum is an example to say that the same is happening on the other side too.

 

[El Sidd]

But that is the truth. You will find very few in India who have positive image about Pakistan. Now with live TVs the intensity of brainwashing has gone some notches up, with children brain washed 24X7. When I was a child the brainwashing was less intense. I cannot comment on Pakistani side, but this forum is an example to say that the same is happening on the other side too.

Well before Kulbashan it was all Bollywood.
You guys shot yourself on the foot with that.

Ito sahab agar hum nahi hote to aap doob jatay bus ye samjhen

 

[ito]

Well before Kulbashan it was all Bollywood.
You guys shot yourself on the foot with that.

Ito sahab agar hum nahi hote to aap doob jatay bus ye samjhen

Kulbashan is an Indian business man who was kidnapped from Iran. Do you think India will defend Kulbashan in ICJ if he were a terrorist. India would have lost its face if proved that Kulbashan is a terrorist. I am surprised even Pakistan could not name the terror incidences where Kulbashan was involved, but condemned him to death.

 

[El Sidd]

Kulbashan is an Indian business man who was kidnapped from Iran. Do you think India will defend Kulbashan in ICJ if he were a terrorist. India would have lost its face if proved that Kulbashan is a terrorist. I am surprised even Pakistan could not name the terror incidences where Kulbashan was involved, but condemned him to death.

That is for the court to decide.

Financial evidences are too strong to really buy into your account no matter how an open mind i keep.

 

[wiseone2]

India isn't fine with the status quo. U guys claim Azad Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan as urs. Alter maps to show them as part of India and complain on every international forum about CPEC passing through there.

Pakistan is the one backing Taliban and LeT. India is fine with LoC.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Pakistan is the one backing Taliban and LeT. India is fine with LoC.

So r u guys ready to declare LoC as international border? Give up claim on Kashmir/Gilgit Baltistan? Not raise hell on every international forum about CPEC passing through Indian claimed territory?

Right now India's actions are opposite to what u r claiming. I'll believe u when India's actions prove it to be the case.

 

[wiseone2]

So r u guys ready to declare LoC as international border? Give up claim on Kashmir/Gilgit Baltistan? Not raise hell on every international forum about CPEC passing through Indian claimed territory?

Right now India's actions are opposite to what u r claiming. I'll believe u when India's actions prove it to be the case.

Pakistan can test India's intentions by offering to make LoC as international border
India has proposed it in the past

 

[Cookie Monster]

Pakistan can test India's intentions by offering to make LoC as international border
India has proposed it in the past

Plz provide me with a news article or some other source about such a proposal from India. I would like to read up on it.

 

[Kaniska]

Few years ago, i stated some of my observations about the rivallary of India Pakistan relation.... i will try to recapture my points again here.

- In order to solve any issue, it is really important to see and understand the issue itself. Does people or Pakistan or India really know or understand why do we do not like each other??? I beleive most of the people do not understand it..Many people do it just because every tom and dick is doing in since my early childhood. Sometimes i feel, somehow, we do not know each other to the extent as it is expected.

- How do India see Pakistan or Pakistani people/Culture in general defines the spectrum or mindset of our issues with you...Do we see Pakistan as an inheritor of IVC or do we see Pakistan is a nation that is created in the name of hatred towards Hindus or a nation where only Muslim can have a meaniful life while others are not.
Do we see Pakistan as a nation or culture or a religion or what is Pakistan for us???

- For me, Pakistan is another beautiful nation that aspires to be a successful nation in my neighborhood..It seems to me that I know alot about my friend Pakistan as he is just my damn neighour...BUt i feel sad, Pakistan is not the same as my neighour is imagined to be...Pakistan is a land who never proud itself for the rich IVC of Mahenjodaro or the land of Taxsila...Rather i find my neighour friend more from an distant land from Gulf than my dear Muslim friend from land of IVC...Or ancestor of King POROUS who valiantly fought with Alexander...

So i feel, Pakistan is not my friend because, Pakistan does not celebrate enjoy the success the place where it belongs to rather my friend rejoice to the same invaders like Ghouri and Ghajni who attacked the land called Pakistan today and defeated mine and their ancestors at some point of time...So that is a contradiction for me...I feel agrived, pained and angry that how come it fotgot to celebrate the success of the ancestors of the people of the land and changed so much during the course of last 70 years of history...??

At the end of the day, in my unspoken words from the bottom of my heart, i would like to say to the people of Pakistan...I am like a person that is not angry because i hate you...rather i really miss you and my friend Pakistan so much that i feel pain and get angry because you are not my friend any more....

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

I am leaving PDF.

We will miss you. Good bye and Good luck.

@El Sidd

 

[oOo]

@Kaptaan Likes of @Joe Shearer saw you differently, it doesn't take much to see beyond the otherwise rhetoric like gangoo etc, but I always believe you need not to be one to counter them. Why seek acceptability among very those? Did you succeeded in bringing any of them back?

Time of peace? Any day, anytime. But are we looking for it? I may be, you may be but the deep state? Peace is detrimental to many institutions. One need to change the institution, and that will happen when our priorities changes. Right now you can eat my Roti, but give my religion to me.