Time for Pakistanis to put Pakistan first

[T-Faz]

The Islamists need to flock to Saudi Arabia or Somalia if they want to put loyalty towards Pakistan down their "priority list". The HT members are delusional with their ambitions of "restoring the caliphate", & they need to start putting Pakistan before the "Muslim Ummah" (aka breeding grounds for the Taliban). The Taliban are keen on implementing & enforcing their distorted version of Islamic Shariah onto the people, against the wishes of the people. There are certain non-violent secular Pakistanis as well that do not want to defend this nation (critical viewpoints are allowed & encouraged, but protecting the interests of Pakistan should be the number one priority). Both extremes need to prioritize their loyalties towards Pakistan, but my thread is primarily aimed at the religiously intolerant group that resorts to violent extremism, in an effort to restore a distorted version of Islamism, that works against the interests of Pakistan. As a Muslim, I believe that it is my primary responsibility to defend my country, & I shall do it from everyone acting against it, whether that is religious extremists or the secularists.

Give me an example of these people you mentioned here.

 

[53fd]

Give me an example of these people you mentioned here.

I'm not targeting you or anyone here, I am talking about the society in general. You know, people like Ahmed Rashid & stuff. Although they are entitled to their opinions of course, as they aren't threatening to kill anyone if they don't agree with their viewpoints.

 

[T-Faz]

I think the U.S. is trying something new, trying to get the terror groups out from under the thumb of the ISI's tutelage. Like in Iraq where the U.S. did manage to pry most Sunni militants away from the embrace of Al-Qaeda.

Yeah, CIA likes to take others terrorists and make them their own terrorists.

After all it has a history of creating and supporting terrorists like Mujahideen, Contras, Taliban etc.

Worst of all, they are proud of this fact too.

 

[T-Faz]

I'm not targeting you or anyone here, I am talking about the society in general. You know, people like Ahmed Rashid & stuff.

Ahmed Rashid is very neutral in his assessment, he cannot be classified as some one who is there to defend the nation, he is merely there to provide insight into the situation.

All his work revolves around facts and figures that he presents for the viewers, he should be read by individuals for a fair assessment that is hard to come by.

Read this article for example.

Pakistan: The Endlessly Deepening Crisis. | The New Republic

Subscribe to read the entire article, its not available for free anymore.

 

[53fd]

Ahmed Rashid is very neutral in his assessment, he cannot be classified as some one who is there to defend the nation, he is merely there to provide insight into the situation.

All his work revolves around facts and figures that he presents for the viewers, he should be read by individuals for a fair assessment that is hard to come by.

Read this article for example.

Pakistan: The Endlessly Deepening Crisis. | The New Republic

Subscribe to read the entire article, its not available for free anymore.

My point is, while I agree with many of his assessments on Pakistan; he does not point towards the hypocritical attitude of the NATO & the US Forces in Afghanistan, doing essentially the same things they accuse Pakistan of doing inside Pakistan. And he always presents a bleaker picture of Pakistan to satisfy the audiences here. The Western media in general (& he is included in that) fails to highlight the complete version of events transpiring inside Afghanistan, & that is where my objection lies.

 

[Solomon2]

Yeah, CIA likes to take others terrorists and make them their own terrorists.

In Iraq formerly low-level terrorists were given jobs guarding their neighborhoods. Once everything was quiet then the Iraqi economy and polity could move forward.

Worst of all, they are proud of this fact too.

"Worst"? You are envious that Americans can take pride in their army's efforts, whereas Pakistanis cannot honestly do the same for theirs?

Well, I think Americans' concern for the cost of the war and soldier's lives far outweighs "pride". Just because you have certain values doesn't mean many Americans share them, at least not to the same extent.

 

[Desert Fox]

I think the U.S. is trying something new, trying to get the terror groups out from under the thumb of the ISI's tutelage. Like in Iraq where the U.S. did manage to pry most Sunni militants away from the embrace of Al-Qaeda.

So your justifying negotiating with the terrorists? How dare you? Your either with us or your with the terrorists usflag.

 

[T-Faz]

In Iraq formerly low-level terrorists were given jobs guarding their neighborhoods. Once everything was quiet then the Iraqi economy and polity could move forward.

"Worst"? You are envious that Americans can take pride in their army's efforts, whereas Pakistanis cannot honestly do the same for theirs?

Well, I think Americans' concern for the cost of the war and soldier's lives far outweighs "pride". Just because you have certain values doesn't mean many Americans share them, at least not to the same extent.

Well Iraq is far from being solved and brought up back to satisfactory levels, nationally that is.

The thing with terrorists is they are rotten, their thinking is rotten and they cannot be brought into the mainstream unless they themselves renounce their past and work for a better future.

What happens when these recruited former 'terrorists' are just waiting it out and go back to their old ways with a renewed vigor once the Americans leave.

Paying off terrorists or giving them power sharing deals is not something to be proud of, at least when your goal was to defeat them.

These talks and what not is a temporary solution, the ideology must be killed but hey, the Sauds are your allies and you will not touch them.

None of this would have happened if your government did not support these "God's Soldiers", I don't believe in using violence as a tool for strategic gains.

My thinking not only applies to the Americans and Pakistan too, we are an example of how such policies of terrorist appeasement and partnerships can come back to haunt you.

 

[skylab20]

The Islamists need to flock to Saudi Arabia or Somalia if they want to put loyalty towards Pakistan down their "priority list". The HT members are delusional with their ambitions of "restoring the caliphate", & they need to start putting Pakistan before the "Muslim Ummah" (aka breeding grounds for the Taliban). The Taliban are keen on implementing & enforcing their distorted version of Islamic Shariah onto the people, against the wishes of the people. There are certain non-violent secular Pakistanis as well that do not want to defend this nation (critical viewpoints are allowed & encouraged, but protecting the interests of Pakistan should be the number one priority). Both extremes need to prioritize their loyalties towards Pakistan, but my thread is primarily aimed at the religiously intolerant group that resorts to violent extremism, in an effort to restore a distorted version of Islamism, that works against the interests of Pakistan. As a Muslim, I believe that it is my primary responsibility to defend my country, & I shall do it from everyone acting against it, whether that is religious extremists or the secularists.

and the pakistanis who put america first before pakistan must be send to america, they will be happy to get green cards too i guess

 

[53fd]

I honestly believe that most Pakistanis have woken up & seen the real face of the Taliban & the terrorists. Almost all the people I have met from KPK, who have been directly affected by the Taliban violence, are strongly anti-Taliban. It is the Islamists that put loyalty to Pakistan down their priority list, that are in favor of the Taliban & anti-Pakistan. In that sense, more people are seeing the truer picture of the events transpiring in the region, something many people did not really realize years ago. Day by day, more people are also seeing the duplicitous nature of the US & NATO Forces in Afghanistan as well, & how they are negotiating with the terrorists, & undermining the security of the region.

 

[skylab20]

^^^^
"Peace" meaning giving in and accepting terrorists as your new lords, a la Swat.

what ever makes it 'peace' not war and lives of pakistanis

 

[53fd]

and the pakistanis who put america first before pakistan must be send to america, they will be happy to get green cards too i guess

I agree with that too.

 

[skylab20]

1= tel US to mind there own business
2= mutual defense pact with china
3= mutual defense pact with iran
4= mutual defense pact with turkey
5= get out of WOT
6= talk to those who are pakistani and crush the rest of terrorist
7= take the PA out of civilian areas
8= make it compulsory for every 18 to 21 year old to serve in armed forces for 3 years
9= declare a first use of nukes policy
10= push for a regional block for china pakistan iran and turkey
11= make direct road and rail links between beijing islamabad tehran and istambul
12= abolish the visa restrictions between the four countries
13= ablish the trade based in dollars and change it to yuan or gold or commodity exchange

this you will have to wait for 3 yrs till im out

 

[skylab20]

I agree with that too.

one thing is, you have grossly understand the concept of majority of pakistan for being extremists

pakistani majority dont have any religious political affiliations, many pakistanis like me find the role of religious political parties not good, because religious or not the politics is corrupt we all know that

the muslims like me declare muslims first, but we should all know pakistan was made on name of islam in the first place, the people who think they are muslims first do not sympathise with saudi arabia, we dont wanna end up like saudi arabia

we also know how the good king of KSA, king faisal was murdered, the present saudi system is the blessing of american protected people, king faisal was my ideal not the present kings etc

we people think shahriah can be implemented, but no body thinks about taliban shariah or saudi shariah, or iranian shariah, these are not shariah, these are the idea of illeterate people

the thing is while living abroad, i have understood the concept of muslim brotherhood, we muslims are more alike than non muslims, we pray together, eat food together etc, we have many similarities

the thing is the poll has shown there is a vast majority of people who are very conservative, and they account of 90% of population

education i must say always plays a great role in brining awareness amoung the pakistanis, so before we all start rubbishing each other and saying hey, that secular guy is more patriotic than you milthy mullah muslim, we must realize what a specific party thinks,

we, pakistanis must stop dividing each other and respect each others opinions without generalisations

one other problem i encountered was the racist feelings among pakistanis like hey, those karachi walas must be deported to india, or hey those punjabis are all illeterates or they stink hve no education, lahore follows hindu traditions or hey peshawar has mullah followers etc it has gay pathans, we should all stop stereotyiing and dividing us into categories and be true pakistanis, we can become example for muslim world and the whole world

 

[Solomon2]

So your justifying negotiating with the terrorists? How dare you?

I do not forget that the actual gunmen themselves may be from families who were themselves terrorized into giving up their children to an evil cause. Some may want out, yet for now the Pakistani Army wants to condemn them by nurturing selected terrorist groups. It is more moral for the U.S. to offer slave soldiers a way out, isn't it?