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Time for Pakistan to come up with answers

India still has it's brutal terrorist problems... and yes, they ARE in cities, you just don't hear about them. There are numerous assassinations and bomb blasts in Muslim urban areas of India, as well as occasionally in Hindu dominated territory.

I hate how people from the West, including Indians and westernized Pakistanis claim India has got it 'all together'. That is a load of crap, India is still a poor nation that suffers from terrorism. It seems like Indians will do anything to discourage and insult Pakistan, even if it means making false and arbitrary claims that are not on par with reality,

:lol: i can understand your frustration , and it would be hard for you to digest but there is no such blast in any part of India. even a cylinder blast in India is Exaggerated by our media and you are saying about hiding bomb blast in "Muslim area" (why only muslim are??)

again India is no longer a poor nation, although 34 % Indian are poor but India is not a poor nation !! Just google about India and its latest news you will know who is making false claims..
 
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Pakistan's future is with India, not with Taliban or China. :tup:

I don't think it's an either/or situation -- Pakistan/India/China/Russia - this is one half of a core, Western Asia and Eastern Asia -- an all the countries with in it - the important thing to ensure is that certain "trouble makers" are kept at a distance.

But of course before this can happen, Pakistan must cure itself of an army that seems to have lost it's mind and direction. Soon the Russians will be in town, the US and it's UN may have to take recourse in yet another responsibility to protect (the English will have to be offered their BP "rights" in B'stan) - a long time coming.
 
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your first paragraph makes me believe that you have never ever visited India or have ever looked at our media. if a firecracker factory or even a gas cylinder blows up it on the news , so this line where bomb blasts and assassinations are carried out with out any one knowing , that too in urban areas is a load of horse manure.

mate are you Pakistani? your second paragraph seems to amplify the fact .
look we all go through just at different times in our countries histories , . its how you deal with it that defines you guys as a nation .

Can you actually prove it's a load of horse manure, or do you just like using stupid words to deflect the fact that I'm right???? And no I'm not Pakistani at all, I have no ties with that nation. I'm just stating my opinion and pointing out the contradictions of what's going on in the world.

Pakistan's future is with India, not with Taliban or China. :tup:

I sincerely doubt that. Enjoy your ban, by the way.

You sound like, you are obsessed with hindus and India.

No, I'm not, I was simply pointing out how India is severely divided along ethnic and religious lines. The central government of India is very weak and has never been able to put down any insurgent groups threatening it's rule.

Sir, Can we please not try to scuttle a good hearted and praise worthy attempt of someone to look at their internal situation, by not bringing in irrelevant topics and biased opinions... India has or hasn't got these problems is another question...

What Bilal is trying to do is ask question that Pakistan and Pakistanis have to ask themselves to come out of this situation that they find themselves in and that is what the thread is about and not aboute what you said... Thank you!

Well then, maybe you should tell that to the original guy I quoted.... he went off topic first. When I see pure horse manure, I feel I need to correct it.

:lol: i can understand your frustration , and it would be hard for you to digest but there is no such blast in any part of India. even a cylinder blast in India is Exaggerated by our media and you are saying about hiding bomb blast in "Muslim area" (why only muslim are??)

again India is no longer a poor nation, although 34 % Indian are poor but India is not a poor nation !! Just google about India and its latest news you will know who is making false claims..

You are one sad kid.... India has almost 1/3rd of the world's poor population!! India - New Global Poverty Estimates

Just Google about India and it's latest news? Dude, your nation and people have sold out, and you are pathetic. All Indian news outlets are trying to become western and keep up with our latest trends and news... how funny that you insult Pakistan for remaining true to their own culture and people and you claim they are against "progress" when you are still a poor, terrorist-insurgency infected cancer of a nation??? Like I said, clean up your own backyard before you insult others!

Enjoy your ban too, by the way.
 
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its not hard to come up with answers, its that they dont want to, most corrupt party in the world is not credible.
 
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Can you actually prove it's a load of horse manure, or do you just like using stupid words to deflect the fact that I'm right???? And no I'm not Pakistani at all, I have no ties with that nation. I'm just stating my opinion and pointing out the contradictions of what's going on in the world.


I sincerely doubt that. Enjoy your ban, by the way.



No, I'm not, I was simply pointing out how India is severely divided along ethnic and religious lines. The central government of India is very weak and has never been able to put down any insurgent groups threatening it's rule.



Well then, maybe you should tell that to the original guy I quoted.... he went off topic first. When I see pure horse manure, I feel I need to correct it.



You are one sad kid.... India has almost 1/3rd of the world's poor population!! India - New Global Poverty Estimates

Just Google about India and it's latest news? Dude, your nation and people have sold out, and you are pathetic. All Indian news outlets are trying to become western and keep up with our latest trends and news... how funny that you insult Pakistan for remaining true to their own culture and people and you claim they are against "progress" when you are still a poor, terrorist-insurgency infected cancer of a nation??? Like I said, clean up your own backyard before you insult others!

Enjoy your ban too, by the way.


when you say there are bomb blast in India in Muslim areas and are hushed up then what you are saying is shud horse manure mate . also i doubt there is one individual on this forum who does not think of you as a false flag . generally speaking people who have no affiliation towards another country are a lot more objective then you were in your description of Pakistan . there is nothing wrong in being patriotic but dotn claim you are something you are not .
 
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pyromagnet .. kid you are new here so just a heads up you cant ban any one , only mods can that too with sufficient reason.
 
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No government in Pakistan can come up with the answers to our current problem. We need a paradigm shift in our way of thinking. We should stop feeling good about what Muslims of the early middle ages achieved, we need to look forward and devise a strategy for improvement of living standards and education of the oridinary Pakistani. This would require a living environment without sectarian conflicts, target killings, ethnic and linguistic intolerance but most of all without exploitation of Islam by the fundamentalist groups.

Regret to say that there is no easy solution to the mess we made of our country.The article below presents a good analysis of the situation but no answers. It is hoped that once we reach agreement on the root causes of our malady, maybe we can find the cure.



Myths and mindsets
Zafar Hilaly
Thursday, June 16, 2011

Perhaps one of the reasons why we don’t seem to be getting anywhere when dealing with the problems that confront us is because we insist on marrying old opinions to new facts. We do this subconsciously in order to minimise the jolt and maximise our sense of comfort and continuity. Regardless of the changes that occur in our collective and individual beliefs, much of the old order still remains standing.

To take one example, the one thing that we know for sure unites us and was indeed responsible for our creation, is our religion. We believe, as a people and a nation that our common religion – Islam – helps us gel. True we always had the lunatic fringe and the odd spat between shias and sunnis would occasionally pull us apart. But these were exceptional lapses and would soon tide over.

Today, however, Muslims are literally slaughtering each other and Pakistan is in danger of being rent asunder not in the name of ethnic or linguistic nationalism, but in the name of Islam itself.

Faced with this dilemma we are at a loss when it comes to crafting a response, and unable or unwilling to identify the cause. We forget that while history is full of religious wars it is not the multiplicity of religions that produced these wars but the intolerant spirit which animated violence fuelled mostly by greed or ambition.

Another fast growing misconception is that the present conflict being basically America’s war, the departure of the US and/or our disassociation with the war would drain much of the poison and since the remaining protagonists are Muslims, and mostly fellow countrymen, resolving our differences should not pose too much of a problem.

America’s departure from the region would be welcomed by all sides in the conflict and it would undoubtedly improve the prospects of a peaceful resolution. But the fact of the matter is that, as the TTP has clearly stated, its war against Pakistan will continue until its peculiar version of the Shariah becomes the law of the land.

In other words, even if we completely ceased to have a working relationship with Washington, that would not be enough for the TTP; not even if, by some miracle, peace came to Afghanistan. The TTP has left its friends and adversaries in no doubt that it intends to achieve its goal come hell or high water, regardless of the means used.

Such an extreme mindset is, as we know, the expression of empty souls. The trouble with such dehumanised people is that if rational thinking enters their minds it is instinctively rejected. The Taliban and their credo will fare no better, but then that’s all in the future whereas the present is what most concerns us.

Were we to close shop with America it would create new challenges. For example the TTP and Al-Qaeda would likely become more emboldened using their propaganda network to press harder for their ambitions. Religion in their hands is an instrument of intimidation, depredation and oppression as we saw in full display in Swat and in Afghanistan.

Another challenge would be that other regional players, some at loggerheads with us, would increase their footprint while we would still be trying to find a way out of extremism and terrorism. There are quite a lot of extremists both foreigners and locals within our territory who would be viewed by the outside world as posing a serious threat to them, including countries like China, our only ally. Nor is the US going to wash its hands off completely even if it decides to scale back its presence. So it is naïve to think that the outside world would leave us alone or that Al-Qaeda and the TTP would follow suit if the Americans leave. It is just as credulous to think that we are capable of meeting the challenge entirely on our own.

Many of us hold views that reflect a dangerously naive understanding of international relations. Whether we like it or not there is no alternative but to sharpen our understanding and our skills in order to operate more effectively in the swirling world of international politics. Emotionalism will not do neither will a one sided approach that focuses on others while ignoring our own failings. Just as others are impure and have defiled their hands so have we and in a way that has come to haunt us. Just ask the Afghans who have been at the receiving end of our ‘strategic depth’ policy for more than two decades.

Emotionalism and one sidedness have also penetrated politics and polemics, completely overshadowing our economic interests. We simply cannot deal with any of our problems, as our socio-economic conditions deteriorate and as governance becomes more difficult in such circumstances, without first focusing on our economy and without asking ourselves what it would take to rebuild it.

Another New World challenge is that economic progress increasingly depends on cooperation with other economies, especially through structures of collaboration with those in the region itself. We are lucky in this respect on account of our location but luck alone will not take us far as we have seen to our dismay in the decades lost due to our shortsighted notions of what best serves our security interests.

The TTP is not only the biggest danger to peace and stability in the country but also to our economic prospects. Apart from the damage it has already done directly by destroying schools and infrastructure, it has created a climate of insecurity so much so that investments have virtually disappeared. And if we are to cut our dependence on foreign aid we must do whatever it takes to generate investments. The state cannot create jobs and reduce the rising cost of energy and food by throwing printed money at these problems that impact our daily lives so severely. We are past that stage. We are too indebted now and our economy is so feeble that our only hope lies in triggering private investments. It is only when economic growth picks up on a sustained basis that the state can cut its debt from the increased revenue it will receive from taxes and from widening the income tax base and continually improving tax collection capabilities.

We don’t have oil, gas, or other precious natural resource that can make up for our failure to generate wealth through economic activity. So we must give our economy our utmost attention and then work our way backward in terms of what must be done politically in order to free our economic future.

While those who influence public opinion have an important role to play to get us back on track as a cohesive nation, the lead must come from our decision makers, especially those who are in charge of strategic policy. Alas, our ultimate arbiters have achieved little beyond carrying on with their outmoded ideas.

It is tragic that while we have not been able to resolve any of our Old World problems, even issues like Sir Creek, the New World problems are fast catching up with us. One of these challenges relates to climate change, particularly its impact on our agriculture, energy generation and water for consumption and industrial use. All three are critical. And yet another New World challenge is that we must shift from relying inordinately on old military doctrines of full-blown conventional wars to asymmetrical conflicts, our nukes notwithstanding.

All these challenges require a degree of dynamism that is sorely absent right now but our survival will depend increasingly on fully grasping the reality of these growing challenges and on measuring up to them quickly. In this matter, the public is much less important than those who exercise power, especially when it comes to critical strategic issues.

Instead of getting caught up in a vortex both decision makers and civil society activists should start thinking out of the box first by perceiving themselves as being in the same boat and in very choppy waters. Infighting will only rock the boat, threatening to capsize it while it is still in narrow straits between the mythical rocks of Scylla and Charybdis. Coordination is vital when rowing a boat. And when in choppy waters, it is especially critical to survival and making a landfall.

As to how we will fare, ask yourself, do we have anyone in the current line up even remotely capable of guiding the boat? Do we even have a ‘cox’ in reserve?



The writer is a former ambassador. Email: charles123it@hotmail.com

Myths and mindsets - Zafar Hilaly
 
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Here are my opinions on your questions.

1.I don't think Pakistani administration considers those groups to be strategic assets.Rule of Thumb is which,group,is anti-India and protects Pakistani interests in Afghanistan are considered assets.Prime example is Haqqani network.

2.In my view If Pakistan wants to eliminate this insurgency by TTP,it has to separate itself from War against terror.But dilemma is how can we fight this home grown insurgency without US help with this terrible economy situation?
 
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Express Tribune

GP

This article has been some time in the making.

Its completion was kick-started by the murder of journalist Saleem Shahzad, and eventually sped-up after reading Ejaz Haider’s fabulous open letter to our country’s top spy master of June 8, in The Express Tribune, titled “An open letter to General Pasha”.

One cannot try to match Ejaz’s coherence and lucidity — at least I cannot. Yet while what he says is brave and close to unprecedented — given the general fear of the institution that he is addressing — it still stops short of what is on the minds of so many Pakistanis, or at least on my mind.

It’s a pulled punch.

One cannot blame him. At least he has set the bar slightly higher. Made the tone slightly stronger.


Amidst the debate on how far we can go in our criticism, and how much further we are willing to go, I am reminded of a fabulous piece on another beyond-reproach organisation.

Written by Irfan Malik, the article, captioned, “The abyss gazes into you”, appeared in Dawn in the wake of the carnage unleashed in Karachi on May 12, 2007. He wrote: “The politics of terror is self-defeating in the sense that the number of victims can never be limitless. This is a big city. Starting with me and you, how many can they kill? Their cover, what was left of it, is blown for good.

“They thrive on fear, so let none be shown. Let them do their worst.

“To retain its hold, the psychology of terror demands deafening silence. Eik, dou, teen… But the dams have burst and the unthinkable is being said — openly by some and with the thinnest of disguises by others constrained by corporate policy, not personal choice… In any case, the chinks in the armour are widening, the facade is cracking… There must be no letting up, no papering over, no reconciliation.”

I will not deliberate on how successfully, or not, that window was utilised. It is the notion of the writer that is important.

In any case, the situation is similar to that of the ISI today. It released a clarification pleading innocence in the matter, a rare, if not unprecedented, act on its part. It is on the back foot, and some have, and few more may, get away with saying things in this window of opportunity. It seems to be closing fast with veiled warnings of patriotism and nationalism.

So here goes. Who killed Saleem Shahzad? Come on. Who else could wipe out his cell phone data from the system? And if one is still unconvinced, consider that the ISI should at least be able to uncover who did do it. Surely, it is not beyond the ability of the country’s most powerful spy agency.

Surely, in either scenario, this is at least a case of complicity.

They still might ‘catch’ some poor sap, a fall guy, perhaps a major, perhaps even a colonel. But it won’t really put the doubts to rest.

Surely this is not simply a case of a ‘few bad apples’.

Yet we will never say openly, in print, that the orchard is rotten; that the charges are so much more than Saleem Shahzad. That the ISI has unleashed on the ones they purportedly serve a reign of fear and terror that has been unmatched. Unmatched by India, unmatched by the US and unmatched by all our so-called enemies, even put together.

That they have patronised, or at least turned a blind eye to, elements that are inimical not only to the West, but have proven to be a cancer that has spread across the country, crippling the nation’s heart, body and mind. That their draconian policies have pushed, beyond reconciliation, already disgruntled parts of our population. That their meddling has brought us to the verge of being declared a pariah state. That their manipulation has grievously harmed, if not completely maimed, our political process.

The trial, the inquiry, the commission, should be not only of the abduction and brutal beating-to-death of Saleem Shahzad, but of the organisation itself. This is the window of opportunity.


It should feed a total rethink of what this organisation does, what purpose, what interest it serves, and whether the people of Pakistan want it to continue functioning.

Once, and if, the evidence comes forward, it will be time to stop pulling punches.

We don’t need to pluck the bad apples.

The orchard needs to be cleared.

Completely.
 
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