Tibet in Trumoil

[kvLin]

Injured Muslims tell of Lhasa unrest

Xinhua Report 2008-03-16 22:52:32

LHASA, March 16 (Xinhua) -- Lying in a hospital bed, Ma Xiaolong, a survivor from Friday's turmoil in Lhasa, capital of the Tibet Autonomous Region, groans in pain.

Even his family members were unable to recognize him as the 24-year-old was burnt and scarred around his face, chest and legs.

"Why did they do this to me and my family?" Ma asked, in tears.

A Muslim from the neighboring Gansu Province, the young man opened a restaurant with his family on Baijiao Street, one of the worst-hit areas in the riot.

"The streets became chaotic and I closed the restaurant at around 3 p.m. that day after coming back from doing services at the mosque in the street with my brother and sister-in-law."

Soon, while staying on the second-floor of the building, the family found their restaurant besieged by a dozen young men and women shouting and trying to break the restaurant door with rocks.

The mob finally broke through the metal shutter nearly one hour later and began to spray gasoline around and set fire to the building.

"We were hiding in the toilet upstairs, but we could hear big noises outside," Ma said. "My sister-in-law was so scared and began to cry. Her husband covered her mouth with his hand, asking her to shut up."

The toilet was soon no longer safe as flames engulfed the wooden door and the smoke penetrated in.

"We could barely breathe and had to get out."

With no other choice, they jumped off the building and fell onto the ground of the yard in the neighboring mosque. There, more than 50 Muslims were busy putting out fires.

"Firebrand and rocks were raining down. We hid in the mosque with many other Muslims."

The Ma family, suffering from burns and bone fractures, were sent to the General Hospital of Tibet Military Command on Friday evening.

Li Suizhi, the hospital president, told Xinhua they were all out of danger.

"People's lives are getting better and better here. I don't know why they (the rioters) still have made troubles like this," Ma said. "I don't have any plan for the future now, but luckily, I have my family with me."

Another family member was not that lucky.

Ma Shequn, a steamed bun shop owner, was treated for stab wounds in the hospital. His shop on Jire Road was nearby the looted Bargor Street, a famous shopping zone for tourists in the downtown Lhasa. His family hid themselves in the shop but soon several vandals broke in.

"They came to beat us directly and we didn't dare put up any resistance, only begging," he said. "I know some of them. They were nice people before."

Ma finally managed to run out of the shop into the street. That turned out to be more dangerous as he was chased by a dozen rioters with long knives in hand this time.

He survived and was later hospitalized with the help of a Tibetan family that sheltered him.

"I don't know what's going on with my family members as I have lost contact with them. No one has answered the phone in the shop."


a photo from an anti-China group,Free Tibet.

 

[sahaliyan]

Some people are blind in killing by the rioters,they think kill innocent civilians is Trumoil

The Guardian, Saturday March 15 2008

This is an eyewitness account of a foreign resident in Lhasa who took refuge in a hotel close to the centre of the Tibetan capital yesterday. The city was gripped by violence after protesters and police clashed

"Oh my God. Oh no. That's crazy. One hundred people are trying to stone one man. A man was trying to cross the street with his motorcycle - they were trying to stone him but it's so crowded I can't see whether they got him or not.

"We came out for a walk about at about five today. I knew something was happening because there were a lot of people on the street. We were on Sera Street, which goes to the [Klukang] monastery. It sounds like the noise came from there; it sounds like at first they had been fighting in the temple.

"We saw people running and people in this hotel told us to get in quickly as the crowd was coming. They seem OK here, maybe the owner is Tibetan. All the other hotels have smashed windows.

"The residents are very angry. They are throwing stones at anyone who is Han [Chinese] or from other minorities like the Hui, who are Muslims. It seems like it's ethnic - like they want to kill anyone not Tibetan.

"I would say it's a riot here but I think in the centre it's worse. There's a lot of smoke - we can see it where there have been burnings. I heard people saying the authorities were firing, using guns. We don't know.

Here we have seen people trying to stone anyone they can - Han and other minorities, not foreigners. The Tibetans had stones and knives. I saw Chinese people running away - there was nothing they could do.

"We don't see any police around here. Maybe they're all in the centre and are too busy. It's very violent.

"Oh my God. Someone has a gun in front of me. There's a group of about 20 people - two of them have handguns. They are walking the street.They're shooting. They didn't have uniforms, but the way they were in a group I thought maybe they were police. They went down the street and the first one fired, that's for sure - I think the others did; there was so much noise I can't be sure. Then some of the citizens threw stones, but not at them - in the other direction. So I don't know if they were police or maybe Tibetans.

"I have just been out to get my things. We are staying at the hotel tonight. There are still people on the streets but only Tibetans - if they see anyone

Chinese they throw stones.

"Three times people raised their arms and then when they saw I was white they stopped it. The thing that surprised me most was that I saw no police or soldiers.

"I saw three people assaulting a man - I was 50 metres away, but I think he was Chinese. They kicked him and then one man had a knife and used it. He was lying on the floor and the man put the knife in his back, like he wanted to see he was dead.

"I had to get away, there were people throwing stones.

"When I came back he was gone - I don't know if he's dead. Then I saw people who had obviously been beaten or stoned. There wasn't blood on them but they were so shocked.

"This area used to be a place where Tibetans and the Chinese were friendly.

"I think this is going to get worse. One person told me 300 people have died in the city centre [the Guardian has no information to substantiate this claim]. I just don't know."

guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2008

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

i can almost be certain, this is orchestrated by some intelligence agencies. it's not only in tibet, but other provinces as well. it's scarring china's image before olympics.

 

[kvLin]

Full disclosure: Dalai coterie's secessionist attempts doomed to fail
English_Xinhua 2008-03-17 04:12:56



LHASA, March 17 (Xinhua) -- Memories of horror were alive again. Rioting that erupted in Lhasa on Friday resembled two previous riots in 1959 and 1989, only in its cruelty and always indisputable links to peace-preaching Dalai Lama.

On March 10th, more than 300 monks from the Zhaibung Monastery ventured into downtown Lhasa. The monks, who were supposedly converted to peace, were invective and aggressive, and flagrantly confronted with the security forces.

In the Sera Monastery, ten monks held up flags of the so-called Tibetan exile government and shouted "Tibetan independence". In the ensuing days, a few monks chanted independence slogans and challenged officers who were maintaining order. Lime and boiling water were poured over those around them, and stones rained down.

In blatant attempts to create sensation, three monks in the Zhaibung monastery lacerated their bodies with knives and took pictures of one another, photos that were to be used to blame others for the harm they inflicted upon themselves, police said.

Affrays turned violent, and losses were grave. The mob on Friday set off a destruction rampage and spared nothing and nobody along their way. Rioters set fire to buildings, torched dozens of police cars and private vehicles and looted banks, schools and shops. Innocent civilians were stabbed, stoned and scourged. At least 10 died, mostly from burns.

In the shocking degree of cruelty which local Tibetans said they had not seen in their whole lives, "brutal" was an understatement of the true picture, but the word was only reserved for the mob, and not for the policemen.

Throughout the incident, Lhasa police officers exercised great restraint. They remained patient, professional and were instructed not to use force. In humanitarian spirit, they even rescued the malicious monks who attempted sensation through hurting themselves. But such restraint was met with even more malice.

Young officers -- fathers, husbands and brothers -- were stoned, lunged, stabbed and clubbed, like any other innocent victim. Twelve of them were badly injured, two of them critical.

Such hostility was not "non-violence" as Dalai preached, but what the "revered" monk practiced. Religious leaders, local Tibetans and other residents stood out and condemned the riot.

It is obvious that the latest well-planned sabotage in Lhasa was another bloody exercise of Dalai clique's political conspiracy.

The Dalai coterie fled to India following a failed armed rebellion in 1959, but they were neither willing to say farewell to their privilege under the feudal serfdom, nor to see a flourishing new Tibet.

From the frequent armed assaults along the border areas in the 1960s, to the bloody Lhasa riot in 1989, the secessionist activities backed by the Dalai clique never stopped.

In recent years, the Dalai clique has been telling the world that they has stopped seeking "Tibetan independence". However, it is just another huge lie.

In an effort to fan up the international community to link the "Tibet issue" with the Beijing Olympics, he repeatedly preached during his frequent international trips that the year 2008 is of key importance and the Olympic Games would be the "last chance" for the Tibetans.

How can the Dalai clique justify themselves when the Tibetan Youth Congress vowed to pursue "Tibet independence" at the cost of blood and lives in a March 10 statement, which says "they would never give up the fight for Tibet independence"?

Starting from March 10, the group launched a so-called "Marching to Tibet" in India. Organizers claimed that once they were blocked outside China, they would stage protests and instigate followers to echo them by making troubles inside China.

After the riot broke out in Lhasa, the Dalai clique maintained real-time contacts through varied channels with the rioters, and dictated instructions to his hard core devotees and synchronized their moves, police sources say. Evidence again mounted against the Dalai coterie's trumpet for "non-violence", exposing them as a deceitful bunch.

It has been the common understanding of the international community that Tibet is an inseparable part of China. No country in the world recognizes the so-called "Tibetan government-in-exile". The series of farces and sabotages by the Dalai clique were strongly opposed by the international community.

On March 10, several Tibetan separatists staged a torch lighting ceremony in front of the ancient archeological site of Olympia of Greece to protest against the upcoming Games in Beijing. The much-ridiculed episode was soon over when police drove them out.

The "marching to Tibet" in India became another aborted act as the crowd were greeted by Indian police awaiting in the midway.

All these facts have come to say and will continue to prove that the Dalai group's ill-willed attempts to destabilize Tibet, in whatever forms, will not succeed, since such efforts go against the popular will of the international community and 2.8 million people in the Tibet Autonomous Region.


Full disclosure: Dalai coterie's secessionist attempts doomed to fail_English_Xinhua

 

[Vinod2070]

Vinod, that comparison is not apt, because from this side of the aisle it is the Indians who are refusing to allow a "free and fair plebiscite" under the auspices of the UN. To us India's stance on the issue of Kashmir, vs its position on Tibet, is what comes across as "hypocritical".

And the exact same sentiment for Kashmir on the Pakistani side, plus the fact that we also consider it disputed territory.

The point here is that it is naive to make comparisons like you did, since nations and peoples tend to operate on the basis of interests and whatever the popular narrative in the culture/society is.

Anyway, off the subject of Kashmir and back to Tibet everyone....

Obviously even I don't think it is a one to one comparision.

It was just to point out that the people who support Kashmiri separatism don't do it out of any love for human freedom but for their vested interests but it is given the cloak of humanitarian terms!

I agree with the later part your analysis and that is exactly my point.

 

[Vinod2070]

Stop making craps if you can't enlighten people with correct informations.

Tibet has a population of 2,700,000, among which 94.7% are Tibetan. the rest like han,menba,louba and hui make up actual local minorities in Tibet.

approx 13% of the Tibetan are monasteries (being treated as national public servants),that makes a nubmer of 332397. the top national public servant is Champa Phuntsok,chairman of Tibetan autonomous region.

100-300 monasteries had participated in the protest during the past week, that's 3%-9% of total monasteries in Tibet.

I will appreciate if you can keep it civilized.

Here is some information for you

Chinese Outnumber Tibetans

Given China's past policies in Manchuria, Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang (East Turkestan), Tibetans feel a real threat to their distinct cultural, religious and national identity.

Today, in Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang, the native population is greatly outnumbered by the Chinese immigrants. In Manchuria there are three million Manchurians against 75 million Chinese. In Inner Mongolia 25 million Chinese outnumber 2.5 million Mongols(27) and Xinjiang has six million Chinese to about five million Ujhurs. (28)

The Chinese census statistics and statements by various officials show a big increase in Chinese population in Tibet during the past 40 years.

According to official Chinese sources, in 1985 Qinghai had a population of 3,947,368, of which only 750,000 were Tibetans. (29) But, an article in Renmin Ribao dated 26 April 1991, downplayed the Chinese population in Tibet. The article gives a breakdown for Tibetan Areas including TAR, Sichuan, Qinghai, Gansu and Yunnan according the 1990 census is as follows:

Tibetan 4,196,000 68.16%
Chinese 1,341,200 21.08%
Minorities 618,800 10.04%

Link: Chinese population - Threat to Tibetan identity

Another one: Tibet Online - Human Rights - Chinese Presence in Tibet: Population Transfer

Anyway I will appreciate if you can share any other authentic information.

 

[Vinod2070]

Come on man lets be realistic here. If India were to hold a plebiscite it would loose all its territory, India would be wiped off the map as we know it. Kashmir would be lost. Bengal would be lost. Hderabad would be lost. Punjab would be lost. And I could go on and on.

Why don't you try it in Balochistan first (or may be Sindh)? You may be surprised by the results!

In India people elect their government every 5 years. If there are any issues that people want to highlight they will surface.

I am sure this is what you were taught in your educational institute but I guess Musharraf is in the process of chaniging the curricula to help the students of these institutes also study some real world stuff.

 

[gpit]

Tibetans describe continuing unrest BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Tibetans describe continuing unrest

Tibetans taking part in and affected by the continuing unrest have contacted the BBC News website to describe their experiences.

ANONYMOUS TIBETAN, HUANGYAN COUNTY, ABA PREFECTURE, SICHUAN PROVINCE, CHINA

I am inside a monastery right now. The telephone landlines have all been cut off. Just one minute ago [1345 GMT] there was a big commotion. The monks outside the monastery were shouting: 'Long Live the Dalai Lama!'

This morning the students of a middle school went out and protested. There were arrests and many Tibetans went to the police station to demand the release of those detained. Two girls were shot and wounded.

It is tense and frightening. The police later released the students.

In Barkham county there is a high school with a student population of about 300-400 students. These students managed to bring down the Chinese national flag.

...

----------------------

Many youth, such as those pre-puberty middle school students, are just ignorant tools manipulated and used by Dalai Lama group. Hopefully, CIA is not paying Dalai Lama this time. If so it will be interesting to know how much it is this time given fast deflating US dollar…

 

[dabong1]

Why don't you try it in Balochistan first (or may be Sindh)? You may be surprised by the results!

I think we will start with kashmir first......theres no UN resolution saying there should be a referendum in sindh or Balochistan.

 

[dabong1]

I have been watching this tibet stuff on tv,and far as i can see its just a unruly mob going around burning,looting and killing people.
I think its got a long way to go before it reaches the scale of the gujrat killings or the massacre of the sikhs after gandhi assasination.

 

[dabong1]

Link: Chinese population - Threat to Tibetan identity

Another one: Tibet Online - Human Rights - Chinese Presence in Tibet: Population Transfer

Anyway I will appreciate if you can share any other authentic information.

And vice versa ,the amount of tibetians that live near costal chinese cities doing business is large.

I see your getting your getting "facts" from unbiased sources......

 

[kvLin]

I will appreciate if you can keep it civilized.

Here is some information for you

Quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chinese Outnumber Tibetans

Given China's past policies in Manchuria, Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang (East Turkestan), Tibetans feel a real threat to their distinct cultural, religious and national identity.

Today, in Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang, the native population is greatly outnumbered by the Chinese immigrants. In Manchuria there are three million Manchurians against 75 million Chinese. In Inner Mongolia 25 million Chinese outnumber 2.5 million Mongols(27) and Xinjiang has six million Chinese to about five million Ujhurs. (28)

The Chinese census statistics and statements by various officials show a big increase in Chinese population in Tibet during the past 40 years.

According to official Chinese sources, in 1985 Qinghai had a population of 3,947,368, of which only 750,000 were Tibetans. (29) But, an article in Renmin Ribao dated 26 April 1991, downplayed the Chinese population in Tibet. The article gives a breakdown for Tibetan Areas including TAR, Sichuan, Qinghai, Gansu and Yunnan according the 1990 census is as follows:

Tibetan 4,196,000 68.16%
Chinese 1,341,200 21.08%
Minorities 618,800 10.04%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Link: Chinese population - Threat to Tibetan identity

Another one: Tibet Online - Human Rights - Chinese Presence in Tibet: Population Transfer

Anyway I will appreciate if you can share any other authentic information.

chill...

I won't balme on you coz you dont seem to get a clew how things have been going in China. actually what do you have except poor quotations from rights groups? better take below facts as my best manner to you.

1. learn that the term of Manchuria is an dumped name for 3 provinces in northeast China,it was after WW2 when the Public of China planed to redistrict the Japanese built Manchukuo into 9 provinces. 3 provinces reamin as they are since the plan never came down on implementation. I dont feel like taking time telling you history that Chinese have been dominating there since how long ago, but that today's Manchus are almostly a selfsame ethnic group with Han chinese. go cry for them and then get a laughter from them. and next time be sure not to make same foul of both youself and the rights groups.

2. learn that only Tibet has been dominated in population by Tibetans since its history. I'll have nothing to say if you claim that Tibetan population must take the mojority in every Chinese province as many as you can name it. or it is because you have to pick up Qinhai in order to show Tibetan population inferior to Han nubmer?

3. Even rights groups know they need to cite the population census by the Chinese government, but wait a minute, what's the census dated, 1985 and 1990? hey funny, dont you need any update as time flows so fast?

the 5th Chinese national census was finished in 2002, as below:
http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/renkoupucha/2000pucha/html/t0106.htm

picking up datas from the huge form, Population of Tibet, by year of 2000:

Total 2616329 ---100%
Tibetan 2427168 ---92.76%
Han 158570 ---6.06%
Hui 9031 ---0.34%
Menba 8481 ---0.32%
Louba 2691 ---0.1%
Nasi 1223
Vighour 701
Monglian 690
Bai 722
Puyi 437
Nu 408
Miao 389
Tujia 303
Yi 287
Sala 228
.....

See, being effectively anti-China is not easy, it takes you bunch of time stuffing up your head with non-of-your-bussines knowledge.

Now, you tell me what happened to the "Arunachal Pradesh", mind enlightening me on the population composition there?

I dont mean to be offensive, but please you be correctly informative.

 

[sahaliyan]

1. learn that the term of Manchuria is an dumped name for 3 provinces in northeast China,it was after WW2 when the Public of China planed to redistrict the Japanese built Manchukuo into 9 provinces. 3 provinces reamin as they are since the plan never came down on implementation. I dont feel like taking time telling you history that Chinese have been dominating there since how long ago, but that today's Manchus are almostly a selfsame ethnic group with Han chinese. go cry for them and then get a laughter from them. and next time be sure not to make same foul of both youself and the rights groups.

I'm an ethnic Manchu,my username sahaliyan means black in Muchurian language,such as Manchus call Amur river Sahaliyan ula(black river)
Manchus consider themselves Chinese(not Hans),in later Qing dynasty,emperors allowed Hans into Manchuria,because Russians want to invade Manchuria.
His number isn't true, in Liaoning province,there are 5 million Manchus,ya,he said,in whole Manchuria,only three million Manchus,what a joke.There are 10 million Manchus live in China,most in Manchuria,Inner Mongolia,Hebei province ,Tianjin and Beijing.

 

[kvLin]

Yap, to understate the figure for Manchu, 10.68mln since it's quoted from the 2000 census. and I guess Benxi (Liaoning) should be the biggest convergence zone for Manchu.

Today I think it's hard to distinguish Manchu from Han, since Manchus began to adopt Chinese culture including han name 300 years ago. I've been working for a company in BJ while living in GZ, there are at least quarter million Manchus in BJ including some of my colleagues, to whom the concept of ethnos would by no means come to my mind untill they told me they are Manchus.

In GZ, there's an old man Zhouyouqian, calling himself Aixinjueluo Zhoudi,cousin of Puyi. he's been attracting more and more interviews by his imperial life style and home design.

Manchu celebrities as I know, Lao she(what an authority in chinese literary circles!) , Cheng yanqiu (founder of cheng style BJ opera), Li shuangjiang, Fu Weici (notable translator), Hu jun (Model/actor), Wong Shusheng(Painter), and oh, Wongshuo the BJ bad egg! hahah

and one more, ask our HK guy here if he has realized the ethnoc of Guan zhilin (famous actress in HK)

Well, I feel sick of those rights groups not because of their proposition of human rights, but because of their crazily biased tones,which make them weird in my view.

 

[solid snake]

The truth

x9QNKB34cJo[/media] - Tibet WAS,IS,and ALWAYS WILL BE a part of China